Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 03:01:49 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #162 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Does it ever get easier *or* Why can't we all just get along? (A. Boyd) 2. Master Hilland & East Coast Chris (bob smith) 3. Integrity; Kids classes (Burdick, Dakin R) 4. Re: Eating before Rank Test (Rulivin4hym@aol.com) 5. In regard to those who shall remain nameless... (Stovall, Craig) 6. Hackworth (Rudy Timmerman) 7. re: eating before a rank test (scottm@scubadiving.com) 8. list slow ? (Ray Terry) 9. Existential Crisis (Jeremy) 10. Apogenous zoophytes????? (RDNHJMS@aol.com) 11. Results from the 2003 Pan American Open Team Qualifier (fwd) (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:36:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Does it ever get easier *or* Why can't we all just get along? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Some of the threads on the dojang digest have really had me thinking lately. These same thoughts have coincided with an event here in Seoul and kept me at it more than it perhaps warrants. In order to sort things out for myself I guess I will toss these ideas out to the public eye of the DD. I think most people will agree that in a general sense we are taught that fighting is wrong. There are significant exceptions, of course, but in general I think we are taught that it is wrong to fight. To add a touch of confusion to this basic message, men often develop the impression (for various reasons) that the ability to stand up for oneself or one's beliefs physically equates to manliness. This mixing of messages can be a burden to some. Making the link between fighting and manhood and fighting and wrongness is not exactly a recipe for balance. A few weeks ago Ken related an incident in a bar which was lauded by some and derided by others. Same event, totally different reactions to it. When I first read it, what struck me most clearly was that according to his written version of events Ken had many opportunities to interact verbally with the trouble-maker in the bar and after each exchange it became more and more clear there would be trouble. This was more significant to me than what happened later. Perhaps the message Ken was sending about self-defense was a lesson I've already learned and so I was drawn to a different section of the post or perhaps I need to learn from a different part of the post. Regardless, I focused on the beginning rather than the end. I found it significant because I sent myself two strong, opposing signals when I read it. Strange. I thought, "Why didn't he just leave the area where the pool table was? He was clearly going to continue to be in the way." However, I also thought, "The pool player is a jerk." Ken has every right to sit wherever there is seating in a bar and the pool playing hoodlum had every right to play pool. The pool player seems to have been trying to dominate Ken. Ken tried to be accomodating without being a doormat. We all know what the pool player did later. I became interested in this part alone. If Ken had left that part of the bar when the pool player first needed space to make a shot, what would have happened? We'll never know. Would that have made Ken look weak? Would the pool player even have taken notice of Ken? Dunno. Not many days after reading Ken's story, I was headed toward Shinchon Subway Station in Seoul on a Friday night. There are a lot of bars, restaurants and drunk, happy people in Shinchon on a Friday night. Most are young students as there are four big universities around it. (Yonsei, Ewha, Hong-Ik, Sogang) It's crowded and a little rowdy but not a dangerous place. You routinely see pushing/shouting matches but few actual fights. There are a lot of drunken fights in Korea but they don't really register as "violent" on the Stovall scale of violence. I was with my wife and another couple, headed for home when we came across an unusual altercation. One young man was screaming at a bewildered crew of guys who were likely his friends and it erupted into a fight, 1 on 5. The guy registered instantly in my mind as "Young, healthy, slightly drunk, furious, untrained" and I disregarded him. The buddies he was venting on were trying pathetically to get him to stop. He knocked them all down with one shove and grabbed up a long mop handle, minus the mop head. The crowd got all afraid and expectant. One by one his timid friends came at him to get him to stop and one by one he whacked them until they fell down or retreated. This guy was full of rage about something. Still, I did nothing. I knew I could handle this guy with little or no danger to myself. I was also dimly aware of amusement as I realized that he was making all the classic blunders "attackers" make in the weapons demonstrations I hate so much. Good thing I paid so much attention to those mistakes as it would help me disable him if necessary. I was ready to act if he should turn on the spectators but I didn't feel the need to jump in to save his friends. The reason? I felt that the friends would try to restrain me rather than help or thank me. My wife, hanging tightly to my arm for fear I'd rush off to be heroic was very thankful that I seemed so calm and disinterested. My friend, however, was livid. He wanted someone, anyone, to leap in and stop this guy and was furious that he, himself didn't know how to subdue him. When he listened to my description of events he got a little annoyed with me for not doing anything despite what I felt was a legitimate reason for inaction. His passion on the subject was enough to make me briefly question my reaction, but I knew I made the right decision. I could handle the guy but not the whole crowd. I bring this up because I was proud of my decision to let the group of friends work out their conflict among themselves without getting involved. A few years ago I wouldn't have had the restraint to stand back and adopt a more protective stance. I would have needed to prove to myself my ability to take that guy. I was surprised at how easy it was to not get entangled in the fight. Except that it's been on my mind ever since. Even though I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I made the right choice of the available options, the need to physically oppose something that was wrong is still unanswered. I can live with the brief disappointment of my friend. He came around to my way of thinking once his head cleared. I'm glad I made my wife happy by "growing up" (in her way of thinking). I'm glad I have moved on to a logical base of reaction rather than an emotional one. Still... So there began my question - Does it ever get any easier to be the person of restraint that we are taught to be and that "Do" requires us to be? Today, I read about the letter from Richard Hackworth and the question came back to me again. What would I do were I in that situation? Is it best to ignore it? Should it be acknowledged and turned down? Should it be accepted? If we train in mu do in order to be able to prevent/defend against outside aggression then it is clear that mu do-in should not go about issuing challenges. What about accepting them? Richard Hackworth's motives for this challenge defy logic so I will let them pass. All the pressure is on GM Timmerman. If he backs down then there will be those who are disappointed or that cite cowardice, while others praise his restraint. Does making the choice about what you will do in a charged situation like that get any easier? Even as I write about this I am under some pressure. I am not impressed by Richard Hackworth(sight unseen, many posts read) and do not like the thought of writing a title next to his name. I am very impressed by GM Timmerman (sight unseen, many posts read) and can't imagine calling him anything less than Grandmaster. Despite my own desire to "get along" I am not treating these two equal strangers with equal courtesy. Does it ever get any easier? ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "bob smith" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:10:44 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Hilland & East Coast Chris Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gentlemen and others, My posting (Give Peace a Chance) was meant as a joke. I see one Instructor verbally attacking and threatening another GM. I personally think to do so on this public forum disgusting and disgraceful. I attempted to add some levity using homor. However, it seems by doing so I have insulted the Hapkido world. 1) Chris, I love the East Coast. I also consider myself to be a liberal. 2) Master Hilland no offense meant to you and I will not take offense with your TKD comment. Finally,to all KMA people of all types, orgins and beliefs maybe a little bit of humor is the best way to diffuse the situation. I enjoy the interaction and instruction I get from this site. However, maybe we "all" should take a deeep cleansing breath... Peace and Health Bob Smith The TKD Family _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:12:17 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Integrity; Kids classes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Eamonn wrote: "I just can not believe that the person who scribed the above, could also be responsible for issuing a somewhat bullish competitive fight challenge, there must be some misunderstanding here." There is often a very big difference between how someone markets himself and how he behaves in private. Unfortunately, I've discovered this is all too frequent in the martial arts. Danny Dunn wrote: "I teach kids beginning at 6 years old. They learn the same basic cirriculum as the adults do in my program. And the bottom line is I hold them to the same standard on the basic cirriculum as I do for adults. The one thing I do is that past the first few gups, I hold them long enough at each gup level for them to develop proper techniques. One thing I personally can't stand is seeing a bunch of kids wearing black or high gup colors that can't execute a proper stance or hyung. What this means is that it takes 5 to 6 years or more for my kids to get their black belt." I've been teaching kids since 1987, and my method seems pretty similar to Danny's. Kids generally start at 7 because the 6 year olds often have trouble remembering turns and forms. We have an unusual situation right now because my daughter (4.5 years) is training with us, so we are allowing a very young cohort to enter training, with the reminder that they may not be testing much! Like Danny, I don't use junior black belts -- which means it takes 6-7 years for the kids to get their rank. Other things I've learned about teaching kids: 1. Don't do air kicks -- when those kids hit their 20s, they'll have a bunch of knee problems -- have them kick a bag. 2. Set high expectations, but always maintain safe practices. 3. Break once per year only, and only one board, until age 16 -- the bones don't finish growing until then. We break during demonstrations, not tests. 4. Kids spar with black belts for the first 6 months, and after they get some control, they can spar with each other. 5. Falling is the most important thing they will learn. 6. Don't punish with push-ups. That will link physical exercise to punishment. Instead, punish with time-outs. 7. About half of the kids under 12 have enough self-control to learn jointlocks and fighting skills. The other half don't, so we don't teach that stuff until age 12. 8. Always keep it fun! Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Rulivin4hym@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:34:03 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Eating before Rank Test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Landa, I have always made sure to eat at least 1.5 hours prior to testing. I also keep things like honey packets, energy gel, water and sports drink in my gear bag. If you are not diabetic then you just have a body that is ultra sensitive to changes in blood sugar. At least this is the case with me. If you try this I would always when I felt dizy grab the honey packet when able and keep the honey under my tongue just like EMTs do with glucose for people suffering from a hypoglycemia attack(low blood sugar). Hope this helps, Michelle --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:56:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] In regard to those who shall remain nameless... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I know, I know...we need to move on, but I have a related question. And I shall phrase it in such a way so as not to refer to anyone specifically, nor to the current condition of their "physique". A PhD is pretty doggone (that's Southern) easy to verify if one knows the accredited institution from which it was granted. Heck, I think my alma mater keeps all accepted dissertations on file for public review at the university library. I'm pretty sure things aren't too different elsewhere, so it wouldn't be too much of a trick. Of course, it's difficult to verify a degree if a person just fronts some letters, and never mentions or verifies the particular institution from which they received their education. And a person most likely to do this would probably be someone who has obtained their degree from some mail order institution with an emphasis of study in "Oriental Philosophy", or some similarly exotic subject the likes of which cannot be found in most of the respected halls of American academia. So which is it? A legitimate, and verifiable Doctorate from an accredited institution with an emphasis of study within a recognized body of knowledge? Or, a storefront diploma attesting to expertise within a field of study so dubious that anyone off of the street could define the boundaries of said subject? Do we know? Craig "Went to State College...and Proud of It" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:00:50 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hackworth Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray writes: > Folks... Time to talk about something other that the fat-one. Ok? > > Thanks. > > Ray Terry Hello Ray: Sorry for using the DD to enlighten folks about certain issues that stain Korean martial arts. I received some very good private posts on this issue, and I believe there is an honest attempt being made to stop this nonsense. I will see what fruit that bears and do my part to put a halt to it. On my part, I will not give it another thought, and I hope others will also focus on the more positive things Korean martial arts have to offer. Alain writes: > Don't let apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal, excerebrose, > facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithyphallic, jumentous, kyphotic, > labrose, > mepitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, > rebarbative, > saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome, > xylocephalous, > yirning, zoophytes get to you. > Hello Alain: I promise not to let anyone even remotely like that bother me:) --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:15:01 -0400 (EDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: eating before a rank test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Landa says "I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions regarding proper eating before a rank test. Saturday I tested for my blue belt and during the sparring I became very dizzy, confused, and sick. I continued to spar until it was over but ended up fainting at the door. I am assuming it was because my food intake was not sufficient. Before any rank test I always try to eat fresh fruits, vegetables, yogurt, juice, and lots of water. I felt very weak until I came home and drank lots of water, sports drinks, and a rich meal. Any suggestions for proper nutrition before a hard work out? Thanks Landa Hopeful 5th gup blue" Landa, i'm not a medical expert, but it sounds like you had plenty of carbohydrates to keep you going but no protein. i always have something with plenty of protein before a tough workout, like beans or fish. add to that some rice, bread, noodles, etc for carbs(in other words, a full meal) & that always held me up just fine. that sort of food was always light enough that it wouldn't come back up during exercise :) i always made sure to eat around 1 1/2 to 2 hours before a hard workout, so i wasn't exercising on a full stomach. after exercise, of course, lots of water & maybe a protein drink, then food about an hour or so after finishing. since we all have different bodies, my routine may or may not work for you. my 2 cents worth. scott --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:28:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] list slow ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net fyi, I'm leaving town again soon for a few days. If I can find an internet cafe in Amsterdam the list will remain up and functional, but if not... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Jeremy" To: Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:30:37 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Existential Crisis Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been having somewhat of an existential crisis with hapkido lately that I am hoping the kind folks on this list can shed some light on. To give you some background I have a 1st dan, I have been at it for about six and a half years. I have never been in a fight, I don't expect that I ever will be in a fight as I don't let my pride rule my actions and I'm a really fast runner. It's just not likely. In the last three or four years I have become confident that I could defend myself if the need be. I believe I have good balance and technique as well as fast and powerful strikes and kicks. At the same time there has been an insecurity growing inside me. Some how all the training still feels preliminary, like I'm getting ready to train for real. Yes, we do realistic drills, I am forced to improvise, and what not. This insecurity led me to start taking judo recently. In judo, when you go out on the mat to practice, you are really doing judo. Because there are no real dangerous moves such as joint locks or strikes, there is no difference between your opponent on the mat and your opponent on the street. This is making me reevaluate hapkido. I feel like in hapkido, we practice swinging the bat, we practice hitting the ball, we practice running, catching, throwing, and even sliding into bases. When were all done training we assume that we can play baseball well, but we never play the game itself, because we can't. Since I started taking judo, I don't feel as confident in my ability to defend myself anymore, I have come to doubt my ability to pull this stuff off, because I have never actually done it. Hapkido is still one of the most important things in my life, but there is something missing that it doesn't provide. I was wondering if these feelings of mine are par for the course or somewhat unique. Have you guys experienced this as well. What became of it? Jeremy Callner (there is more than one Jeremy on the list, don't mix us up) --__--__-- Message: 10 From: RDNHJMS@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:08:05 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Apogenous zoophytes????? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Whoa Alain, I'm gonna spend the next week looking up all of these words, maybe even have enroll in a PhD program. Are they really words? Are you sure they are all legal to say publicly? Seriously, I just got a chance to stick my head up out of the war in Iraq and what do I get, lots of Dojang Digests with endless strings of entertainment. Thanks everybody. Hopefully things will begin to settle down a bit and I can catch up on all the saved Digest volumes. Coffee break's over, back on your heads. Rick Nabors US Central Command --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Results from the 2003 Pan American Open Team Qualifier (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This last week the USTU took the first step towards selecting the 2003 Pan American Team. The Quarter Finalists from this event, plus any wildcards selected by the Ad Hoc Committee, will compete for the 2003 Pan American Team on June 15th, 2003 in Colorado Springs, CO. Winners from last weekend's event: Female Under 107.8 -Kay Poe -Danielle Holmquist -Mandy Meloon -Elisha Voren Female 107.9 - 125.4 -Diana Lopez -Nia Abdallah -Stephanie Beckel -Taylor Stone Female 125.5 - 147.4 -Simona Hradil -Charity Maclay -Elizabeth Mohammed -Lynda Laurin Female 147.5 and over -Jennifer Lynn Middleton -Sanaz Shahbazi -Heidi Gilbert -Jamie Hamilton Male Under 127.6 -Tim Thackrey -Daniel Elkowitz -Jesus Armendariz -Charles Smith Male 127.7 - 149.6 -Jason Han -Anthony Bell -Cody Aguirre -Mark Lopez Male 149.7 - 176 -Louis Torres -Steven Lopez -Anthony Graf -Joseph Gjonaj Male 176.1 and over -Stewart Gill -Michael Tang -Chance Cole -Paul Nelson US Taekwondo Union One Olympic Plaza Ste 104C Colorado Springs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest