Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:56:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #168 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Warm-ups (Lee Fisk) 2. Re: Joint Rolling? (Jeremy/Caltera School) 3. Friday Nite Lesson; Thanks to Boyd et al (Ken McDonough) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Swords?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Re: shameless plug (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 6. No Warmups (Emactkd@aol.com) 7. Existencial Crisis Part II (Troy Trudeau) 8. Turtle Press (J T) 9. Clarification for Patrick (Stovall, Craig) 10. Kids and training (Burdick, Dakin R) 11. Sword suppliers (Burdick, Dakin R) 12. Brainerd 2nd Annual Hapkido Seminar (Dewitt, Garrett) 13. Sword Dealers (Kirk Lawson) 14. Getting in the water (Stovall, Craig) 15. RE: Self-Defense in School (McDonald, Jon) 16. back home (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Lee Fisk" To: Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:01:55 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Warm-ups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi: Not sure the age and makeup of the class but the instructor may be choosing between different evils. With kids there is the issue of attention span. If they are hyper then there is little chance of their learning. On the other hand frequently young bodies as I see it do not require the same warm-up as adults. Adults easily tear muscles but youngster are a lot more resilient. For my classes as adults I've seen varied practices starting with stretching or warm-up. At the school I'm at currently our classes are 90 minutes the first 15 or 20 of which are spent doing jump rope (1000 singles followed by as many as possible doubles). One school used to run around the dojang for warm-up. At a school I visited recently they started straight with stretches; I questioned the lack of warm-up and was told that it was due to having only an hour for class and that warm-up would impact the learning curve. Out of curiosity, how old is your son? Are the books you've read child focused? Regards, Lee Fisk (Tucson, AZ) > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:09:03 -0700 (PDT) > From: freddie bishop > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] no warm up > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I have trained in the martial arts for about 20 > years, although I have not been interested in rank > promotion, I am now regretting my decision for not > seeking advancement. I have read in many books > regarding the subject of warming up muscles before > stretching them or performing athletic movements. My > sons' Tae Kwon Do instructor makes his students stay > seated before class starts. The class begins with > meditation, and then they go right into ballistic > stretching. This instructor has obviously not come out > of the cave recently! I have tried to passivley hint > around about various training subjects, which the > instructor brushes off with "Thats the way I was > taught" and "It works for me". The other Tae Kwon Do > school is even worse. > I might keep my kid outside and run him around in > the grassy area to get him warmed up for stretching. > Does anyone have suggestions? > > Fred --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Jeremy/Caltera School" To: Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:01:53 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Joint Rolling? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > After a big of joint rolling we went into kicks... We don't practice that at my hapkido school, perhaps it would help my existential crisis. Jeremy Callner --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:59:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Friday Nite Lesson; Thanks to Boyd et al Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 2nd attempt to forward. Stupid computer. Anyway, after a long week of babysitting some federal employees I decided maybe to check out some shi...kickin', sawdust floored, cotton eyed Joe'd, mechanical bull ridin' juke joint. But, nah, I went to bed early instead and woke up Saturday and worked out with this personal trainer who has whittled me down 10 lbs. She likes the "guns" I am gettin on the arms. I told her I want to be the ultimate middle aged fightin' machine. My vision is now turning to a nice workout area in a future home with a workout/shop in the rear of the house. I would have: - free weights; Smith Rack; Sled for the legs; bench, dumbell rack, slant machine. - Heavy Duty Bag stand with speed bag - Silent Man Stick training dummy for those inside techniques - Mats for throwing -Tread Mill and Cross Trainer bike for cardio - Bookcases for videos, and of couse books on how to avoid fights Any other ideas to include in this set up. Let me know. Making a nice smoothie now. Bye, Big Ken --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:49:52 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Swords?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jeremy: ".....Here's the website to the dealer I use in Korea. I've been pretty happy with their service....." At one time there was a website for the KOREAN SWORD COMPANY but I have not had much luck locating their URL of late. Sorry. There is a poster for a Korean company mounted at the sword school I attend. I will see if I can remember to get the name of that poster. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:12:46 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: shameless plug Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hi folks, its that time of year again when we're discounting discipline footwear on our website. $10 off for each pair ordered to dojang digest subscribers. additionally, we've got the new nike uniforms for about $20 less than other dealers. there's always a 10% discount on gear for our friends on the list here. all you need to do to get the discounts is to enter "dojang digest" in the line when asked where you heard about us. as always, thanks for the bandwidth :) take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:55:55 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] No Warmups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've seen some class schedules for kids that are 45-50 minutes in length. It's hard to get a full class in in an hour, with a 15 minute warmup. Warmups and basic motions take about a half hour. It would seem that more than one instructor believes that kids don't need a warmup. Everybody warms up for our classes, but we take an hour and fifteen per class. Rick Foley --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 05:42:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Trudeau To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Existencial Crisis Part II Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeremy, I have been through a simiar thing years ago back in 1987, after being in martial arts at that time for 15 years, and after being in countless "Karate" Tournaments doing the point thing, along with being very proficient, winning several, losing several, at reaching 5th Dan in Tae Kwon Do at that time, I began to question myself, not my skills, but the what ifs, I started feeling insecure, after watching a few barroom fights, and all of it ending in close quarters fights, or on the ground, I started to look for something that was more realistic, not just your normal kick punch routine, then, I found Kuk Sool, after working a few years in that, The organization that that was governing Kuk Sool and myself did not agree on things, I went to the World KiDo Federation, Korea KiDo Association, with GM IN Sun Seo, I began learning alot about the other aspects of KMA, and a few years ago in 1999, I found GM Timmerman, and started learning more and more, the longer I train, the more I learn everyday, now I feel very confident in my abilities, and more secure,Sincerely,Troy Trudeauwww.wtswa.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:23:09 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Turtle Press Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am thinking of ordering a couple of books and videos from TP. I was wondering if any of you had any experience watching or reading the following: Teaching Martial Arts Martial Arts Instructor's Desk Reference Any of the Hanho videos Haedong Kumdo: Sword Art Taekkyon Thanks, Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:24:52 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Clarification for Patrick Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I don't think we're comparing apples and oranges. The point was not to preach the efficacy of Judo randori, but to point out that Judo randori has the element of Aliveness that is not present in a good amount of traditional martial arts training that I've seen. In all fairness, 100% reliance on Judo randori would be detrimental on some technical levels because of the over reliance on the gi for gripping/throwing/chocking. In order to become well rounded in the grappling phase, one would want to do some grappling without the gi. The bottom line is this...as long as you're getting a dose of aliveness, I don't care what particular training methods you're using. Alive training methods can be found in boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, no-gi submission, Judo randori, etc. Aliveness as a training element imparts much more than technical proficiency...it promotes the ability to adapt and improvise. IMHO, an hour of Judo randori, boxing, or wrestling (an alive training method) against a "similarly trained partner" is better than a hundred hours of playing "you fall down as a result of my simulated eye jab and knee stomp" (repeating a dead pattern)...also against a "similarly trained partner". It ain't about Judo randori. It's about aliveness. Motion, timing, and energy. You're either incorporating it in your training, or you're not. My response to Jeremy was intended to add some definition to something that I THINK he was experiencing, but was not able to put his finger on. Namely, the Judo randori had given him a little taste of aliveness, he had not had the same experience in his particular Hapkido environment, and I think he liked what he was experiencing. Honestly, he could have had the same experience if he had been doing Muay Thai, wrestling, or Brazilian Jiu-jitsu...since those arts use training methods that have a high level of intrinsic aliveness. He might have also had the same experience if he had visited a Hapkido school in which they complement their core training with drills that incorporate a healthy dose of aliveness. Bottom line: I don't care WHAT art you do. Get some aliveness. Playing "Pooty Tat fall down go BOOM" because of my simulated "groin grinder/spleen exploder/neck snapper" Mortal Kombat fatality combo...is just following a SCRIPT (go back and read "context" approach versus "technical" approach). Craig "Don't Hapkido Me Because I'm Beautiful" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:26:17 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Kids and training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Danny Dunn wrote: "I told them and my student that this was likely to continue as long as they were getting a reaction. Suggested he do a little taunting of his own. I also told them he has a right to defend himself from being struck, and that if he fights back, they may well have to defend their son's right to defend himself at achool. They were shocked, but understood. I told the student the next time one of the kids tried to hit him or grab him to tee off a good solid strike as hard as he could. I also told them I felt sure that it probably wouldn't be reported if my student did hit another kid. Result, all the problems ceased within 3 weeks." Yep. I don't tell the kids to taunt back though. I teach them they can respond if someone lays a hand on them, but anything else is to be ignored (stick and stones and all that). We occasionally do child-safe type training as well (getting away from adults, etc). In the last 15 years we have had these cases with kids: 1. One student punched a bully in the stomach, and was taken to principal's office. Bullying stopped, principal knew of the bullying and didn't do anything to the student. 2. One student used punches and kicks (sparring) to stop three other kids from attacking him in the street. No repercussions or follow-ups. 3. One student used middle punch and osoto-gari to take a kid down who was attacking him. Then he just sat on him until the supervisors came. No repercussions here either. 4. One student punched a smaller student in the stomach in class. The smaller one had been bugging the older by pulling his dobak, etc. I had both apologize. The smaller one apologized, "I'm sorry I was bugging you," and the bigger one refused. I refused to let the bigger kid come back until he apologized. The mom then called the administrators and accused me of being a racist, since the bigger kid was black (she didn't know the smaller kid was Korean!). It created a mess but I held firm and the administrators eventually backed me up. Once or twice I caught the bigger kid looking into the classroom -- he probably wanted to come back but his mom stopped him. 5. This most recent incident (still in resolution). Danny wrote: "Joint locks and trips work well, but generally not for kids under 13 or so." Yep. I don't teach that stuff for kids under 13 because about half of them can't handle the responsibility and I don't want to create bullies. Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:42:40 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Sword suppliers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere Hilland wrote about the Japanese Sword Society, which is definitely a good place to start for historic shinken (live steel). "Sun Mu Kwan" wrote about a dealer in Korea, namely: http://www.sehyun-kumdo.com/ This supplier seems to be buying from Japan, so if you are in the US and want to cut out the middle man, go to: http://www.bogubag.com/Swords/swords_intro.html They are the official outlet for Koei Budogu in the U.S. Remember, all the swords they are talking about are alloy iaito, which are swords without an edge used for iaido. I bought the heaviest one I could, and it still feels really light compared with my Paul Chen "Practical Katana II." You can get more information on iaido equipment from our web page at: http://www.iub.edu/~iaido/iaigear.html A word to the wise -- if you are wanting a live steel blade, be sure to get some training first. I know of one acquaintence who can't move his index finger any more because he severed the nerves during a draw. I also know of another friend who won't ever touch a sword again, since he put out the eye of another friend doing sword kata. These are weapons, not toys. Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:31:20 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Brainerd 2nd Annual Hapkido Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello to all DD members I would like to thank all of you who expressed interest in attending and to those who did attend our second annual Hapkido seminar presented by Grandmaster Timmerman. We have a great deal of work to do before Sa Ja Nim stops by this way again and I see the wisdom in having seminars more than once per year. Do not be concerned about my right shoulder and the right side of my face Sa Ja Nim, I will be somewhat normal within a week or so...... Special thanks to SBN Keatley and Mr. Manfred Fisher from all of your friends in Minnesota. Respectfully Submitted Master Garrett DeWitt Brainerd Tae Kwon Do - Hapkido NKMAA Member. --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:11:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: [The_Dojang] Sword Dealers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:53:36 -0700 (PDT) > From: J T > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Sword Dealers > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Does anyone here or in Korea have connections to a > good sword dealer? > > Jeremy http://www.kriscutlery.com/ Peace favor your sword --- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:08:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Getting in the water Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mark writes, <<>> Exactly. You can prop yourself on a stool and do the Australian crawl for eight hours a day, but you'll never grow accustomed to the sensory input that goes along with diving in the pool. There's the tactile sensation of the water moving along your body. That lovely burning sensation you get when water goes up your nose, and the effect that the water has on your vision. That feeling of panic that comes over you when you inhale a good mouthful straight into your lungs. There's lots of baggage that goes along with being in the water. Those things must be dealt with through experience. They cannot be dealt with on a theoretical level. Same thing with fighting. One cannot deal with motion...REAL motion...unless one trains against it. Timing cannot exist...REAL timing...within the confines of a dead pattern. One doesn't know what energy is...REAL energy...unless one has faced it. To experience these things, to learn to deal with them...you...must...get...in...the...water. --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "McDonald, Jon" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:54:12 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Self-Defense in School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When you think of it, the school enviornment (at least up through high school) is completely bizarre in comparision to "real life". It seems a lot of schools choose between zero-tolerance and virtually no punishment for the aggressor. There has got to be a better way. The amount of harrassment and physical abuse that many children have to deal with in school is simply not tolorated in "real life". I knew kids that went to a different high school than I did that were beaten up on a daily basis for there lunch money. And they just had to take it. Can you imagine what would happen if one of your coworkers assaulted and robbed you at your job. How completely insane would it be if they repeatedly did this and not only were they never arrested, but they even kept their job. The only other enviornment I can think of that would be similar is prision. One kid i knew was attacked by three older kids for no apparent reason. Correct me if I am wrong, but if three idividuals attack you on the street, unprovoked, you have the right to use deadly force, yes? I am not in any way disagreeing with Michael Rowe on zero-tolorance policies in schools. Rather, I'm just commenting on the sorry state of affairs that many young people have to live with. Sincerely, Jon McDonald Message: 10 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:00:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Self-Defense in School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> It has always amazed me that schools actually threaten this. I mean I understand that they want to have a Zero-tolerance policy, but come on now. If an adult defends themselves in real life they are afforded a hearing at least. Things such as appropriate use of force can become an issue but the right to defend you self to continue to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is guaranteed to all. Not just for those who have reached the age of majority. But people are totally against the violence in our schools, so everybody must be punished. It really is a sad commentary. Michael Rowe **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer. --__--__-- Message: 16 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] back home Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net fyi, back home from Amsterdam. The list should be up and running again... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustutkd1@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest