Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 03:01:45 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #173 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Opinions on HKD & Kyusho Jitsu/Tuite (Wilson, Byron) 2. Swords from KSW website (d.mchenry@juno.com) 3. KSW sords (Rudy Timmerman) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Swords_for_Dakin_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_ATTN:_Bookworms?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. Brainerd Hapkido Seminar (Dewitt, Garrett) 7. Happy Easter (Ray Terry) 8. In The News (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 9. RE: Korean swords (Ali Al-Nasser) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:31:32 -0400 From: "Wilson, Byron" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Opinions on HKD & Kyusho Jitsu/Tuite Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Morning, all. During my rehab for a crushed radius after getting tagged by a spinning back wheel, I have had time to contemplate my future in the martial arts. In the last two years I have received this crushed arm and a shattered calcaneous. Even though I know that these injuries aren't necessarily inherent in the practice of TKD, they are inherent in full contact, full speed sparring as I age. I think my Olympic Sparring days are over, except maybe as a referee. Having not ever had the fascination with oriental weapons that generally come with most martial arts, I began my practice to always have weapons "available" for use and to tune my body. While watching some HKD matches I really enjoyed the moves and felt that HKD would make an excellent complement to my TKD training. However, my Sabumnim has been gently trying to tell me that HKD is not an art easily begun by a 50 year old without a necessarily higher risk of injury, both minor, nagging aches and major dislocations and breaks. Becoming discouraged to pursue HKD, I began to read Dr. Pier Tso's texts on Pressure Point fighting, purchased and pored over three of George Dillman's books on PPF and read somewhat extensively on Dim Mak. (I am still not sure I can tell you the exact distinction between each). Being a Christian, I am troubled by the depth of Eastern philosophy (I suppose Confucianism) embedded in Dr. Tso's work. Even Mr. Dillman uses the metals, elements and outlook of the oriental mind to teach his art. Is it effective? Is it practical at my age? Can I practice PPF without having to become immersed in a religion/philosophy I have neither interest nor faith in? Since there are several of you that are Hapkido Sabumnim and Kwanchangnim, I would sure appreciate your opinion on the practice and use of HKD and the "aging" body. Is it as destructive as I have been led to believe? Would I be "overreaching" to attempt to learn such a demanding art at 50 and continue my first love, TKD? Secondly, do any of you have an opinion of the efficacy of pressure point fighting and its practical application as a skill that would compliment my TKD training and offer addition skills upon which to draw when necessary? As my body advances toward becoming potting soil, I would like to remain fit, flexible and, when absolutely necessary, lethal, without continuing to nurse broken bones, hyper joints and deep bruises. I would appreciate any advice from the sages of the DD. Byron Wilson TKD Student [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 2 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:20:22 -0500 From: d.mchenry@juno.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Swords from KSW website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kat: <> I was wondering about this, because when I asked Grandmaser Suh in person about purchasing a sword he wouldn't sell me one because he said it has a KSW logo stamp on it, and since I wasn't a member of KSW he wouldn't sell one to me. Now he would sell me a boken/mukgum which I already had.... I declined. Mac ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:13:20 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KSW sords Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have heard that "only" KSW organization members can purchase swords > from > the KSW orginazation. Do any of the current or former KSW folks have > any > info on this? It has been a while since I was the WKSA Master in charge of Canada and the state of Michigan, but up to 1998 the rule was that WKSA did not supply black belt material to other than Kuk Sool members. In any case, all of the swords that came through my hands were pretty to look at but useless as anything but a wall ornament or for doing hyung demos. Any actual cutting would no doubt cause severe damage to the sword. The $500.00 US price (at that time) was also very high for the quality of the sword supplied (it is with most other WKSA stuff). For example: the fans WKSA sold for $50.00 US, I was able to pick up for about $10.00 US in Korea. Some Kuk Sool Masters own swords that CAN cut; however, these swords were not readily available to the general Kuk Sool black belt. Some of the Kuk Sool practitioners did actually make nice demo swords; however, it seemed that this practice was not encouraged (probably because it cut into WKSA profits:). As a rule, WKSA does not encourage its people to even talk to each other, and I attended one meeting in Houston where it was announced that websites had to be taken down or approved for content and and chat rooms were forbidden period. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:03:15 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Swords_for_Dakin_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dakin: I don't know if this post made it in the last time I sent it. I found a website www.song-moo-kwan.net that offers swords for sale and identifies them as having been forged in Korea. I found the URL by punching "korean swords"+purchase into YAHOO. FWIW. Best Wishes---- oh and HAPPY EASTER to everyone, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:32:32 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_ATTN:_Bookworms?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For those who lurk in the background and are closet research types I thought I send along an Easter gift. As most of you know the MU YEI TO BO TONG JI has been translated into English and is available through Turtle Press. For those (like myself) who are working to dig deeper into that Korean work, further research requires delving into the JI XIAO SHIN SHU of General Qi or the WU BEI ZHI of Mao, Yuan-I. As far as I know nothing of the WU BEI ZHI has been translated into English. However, there is supposedly a Masters' thesis available through PROQUEST (cost to me was $34US+shipping) by one Gyves, Clifford Michael which is a translation of the Boxing Canon. In case you are wondering how this is relevant let me tell you that the Chen style of Tai Chi Chuan AND the Kwan Bup section of the MYTBTJ are both directly related to the chapter on Chinese boxing found in General Qi's book. Along these lines I understand that one of the chapters of TAI CHI ANCESTORS by Douglas (?) Wile is reportedly a translation into English of the 2-handed sword (Miao Dao) work advocated and taught by Gen Qi to his men and also published in his book. Anyone thinking to revive or better understand Korean sword work would be well-advised to find back copies of this work as well. Finally, on Tom Chens' website there is a listing of two-handed sword styles (both Jian --straight-- and Dao--- sabre). Of course Gen Qi is mentioned as well as Mao, Yuan-i. However, Mr. Chen also identifies specific chapters of the MYTBTJ with specific sources as follows. 1.) General Qi, Jiguang, Chapter 4 of Ji Xiao Shin Shu (aka: "{Miao Dao} Xing Yu Dao Fa") ----------> MYTBTJ, pg 131 to 140 2.) Mao, Yuan-I, WU BEI ZHI, Chapter 86 (Two-handed Jian) ----------> MYTBTJ, pg 146 to 157 (Usually practiced by Koreans as a sabre form rather than as a straight sword) 3.) General Li, Rusong (1549-1598) ----------> MYTBTJ, pg 223 to 232. (JE DOK GUM aka The Admirals' Sword aka "The Big Butterknife" if you are into KSW) In case anyone is looking for a challenge I am currently working on finding material in English which reflects the older MTHand and Sword work of Chen TCC. This would include the "Old Frame #1" and the "Cannon Fist" form. The idea is that IF Gen Qi's work was borrowed by both the MYTBTJ AND Chen Tai Chi Chuan we may get clues for execution for the various hyung in the MYTBTJ by examining the Chen material. There are some very interesting parallels in terminology among the three works and, of course, there is much more material in English on Chen practice. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:19:17 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Brainerd Hapkido Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Keatley wrote: Hi Master Dewitt, It was good to be able to work with you and your students this weekend. You sure know how to prime me up for a Saturday seminar by filling me up with cold Guinness and hot pizza friday night. It sort of made up for the fact I was quite moist Friday night. Hope everyone's legs survived the workout with no ill effects. I know alot about the after effects of being GM Timmerman's partner for techniques. It helps to think of it not as a painful techniques but rather a deep-body Korean joint-massage. Then apply the afore-mentioned Guinness or suitable substitute. :) Looking forward to working with the Minnesota crew again despite the lack of cold weather I was anticipating. Lorne Keatley Thank you for your post Mr. Keatley. This has been an interesting "post seminar" week for me. I have spent several hours going through the mid-rank techniques with a few Black Belts here and although the joints are a bit sore and they tossed me about, none of them were able to take my legs out from under me with a simple wrist technique like Grandmaster Timmerman did. I was waiting for this to happen and than I could perhaps practice this fall in a more professional (not likely) manner. "Korean joint massage?" I think I will just stick to water and the Americanized Advil... Thanks for your willingness to share though. Respecfully Submitted Master Garrett DeWitt NKMAA Member. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima), the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy Easter Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On this Good Friday, wishing you all a happy Easter... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:17:58 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] In The News Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6236836%255E1702,00.html Trial for martial arts death A MELBOURNE man will face a Supreme Court jury on charges that he killed a youth with a kung-fu kick to the head during a pub brawl. Ryan Leigh Johns, 20, of Rowville, is accused of delivering the martial arts-style "spin kick" outside the Village Green Hotel on June 1 last year. His alleged victim, Aaron Linskens, 18, was taken to nearby Monash Medical Centre and died from his injuries two days later. After a five day preliminary hearing in Melbourne Magistrates Court, Magistrate William O'Day ruled there was enough evidence to commit Johns to trial on charges of murder and of intentionally causing serious injury. Johns has pleaded not guilty to both counts. Witnesses told the hearing there had been no trouble among the 500 person crowd at a Glen Waverley hotel, but mayhem broke out as patrons left at 2am. The court was told Johns had retreated with his palms up in the air when confronted by Linskens and two others in the carpark. As Linskens prepared to strike him, Johns allegedly delivered the fatal kick to the right side of the jaw. Linskens grabbed at his mouth before falling back and hitting his head on the ground. A security officer grabbed Johns in a bearhug and passed him on to a colleague but he escaped their clutches, the court heard. Later that night Johns told friends he had said he "wasn't interested" in fighting but Linskens "kept coming at him", the court heard. Johns was "very teary and really concerned and shaking" as he headed for the hospital to see what had happened to Linskens. "What am I going to do? I didn't mean it," Johns allegedly said. Hotel barman Wayne Hood said the scene outside the pub was "the worst I've seen", describing an incident where one patron was attacked by up to five people and then chased into a local supermarket where the bashing continued. Security officer Cameron Leiper said there were more than 10 fights outside the hotel. Mr Leiper helped get Mr Linskens, who "was making a noise like he was snoring", into recovery position after he was felled. But as Mr Linskens became more coherent, he began swearing, shrugged off his helpers and was "quite determined to get back to the fight", Mr Leiper told the court. Johns remains in custody before a Supreme Court directions hearing on July 1 after Mr O'Day refused his application for bail. AAP --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Ali Al-Nasser" To: Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 10:30:40 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Korean swords Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here's a link for Korean swords here in the U.S. http://www.song-moo-kwan.net/korean_swords Not too sure what the quality is like... [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest