Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:34:01 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #177 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Hapkido for the aged (Klaas Barends) 2. RE: Korean Swords & ASMKA (Ali Al-Nasser) 3. RE: Korean swords (Ali Al-Nasser) 4. Re:Hapkido Seminar-Westport (Beungood@aol.com) 5. RE: Korean Swords & ASMKA (Wallace, John) 6. Hapkido for the aged (James Allison) 7. Hapkido and age (Patrick L) 8. Regarding Fans (Stovall, Craig) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Song_Mu_Kwan_&_Korean_Sword_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. GM Bong Soo Han (J.R. West) 11. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Specs_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 12. Korean Swords and the ASMKA (Kirk Koskella) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:17:12 +0200 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido for the aged Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > For health, hapkido can be rough on the body (falls, locks, etc.). I > love > it, but I don't know how much longer I can keep doing it. Playing with > those 23 year olds is getting a lot harder. What happened to using the energy/force of your opponent and effortless self defence? I always thought those were core principles of hapkido. Every book I ever read about hapkido, told me it could be used by anyone no matter what age/gender. Hapkido shares a lot of principles with taichi (circle, up/down movement, balance, inner strength) > For my money, I would say take Yang style > taijiquan from one of the William C.C. Chen guys or learn to do boxing > drills at the local boxing gym.Baguazhang might not be bad either. I'm not a fan of Willian Chen's Yang style taichi. It fails (IMHO) to teach you the above principles. But ofcourse it could have been the school where I once trained Chen's taichi style, I never met the guy in person. Bagua can (again) give you great insight in the basic principles of hapkido. (I once heard a story (unverified, maybe the historics can clear it up) that Morihei Ueshiba studied bagua during the time he was in China.) -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Ali Al-Nasser" To: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:23:13 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Korean Swords & ASMKA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If ASMKA purchase the swords from Golden Tiger aka Ken's trading, I wouldn't waste my funds on them. I bought one from them several years ago and it was wothless. [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Ali Al-Nasser" To: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:31:53 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Korean swords Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here's another link to a company which is located in Busan. I bought several items from them in the past and was pleased. http://www.gum4989.co.kr/ [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:54:14 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Hapkido Seminar-Westport Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a quick report on Chris Lacava's hosting of Master Todd Miller of the Jung Kwan Hapkido Dojang. The seminar was a good time and the floor full of participants all had a great time learning Jungi Hapkido Techniques of unbalancing. Master Miller was great teacher and circulated around the dojang to ensure everyone learned his cuirculm for the seminar. He taught ,practiced and then tested everyone similiar to crawl.walk,run style training in the military. The Jungi Hapkido which is a brutally direct linear version of Hapkido from GM Lim ,Hyun Soo and is a very practical version of Hapkido. Anyone getting a chance to attend one of these seminars will learn alot. Jack O --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Korean Swords & ASMKA Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:27:46 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forget swords, Dakin wields the internet with deadly precision. All roads seem to lead back to Florida, don't they? Someone should alert Dave Barry. Nicely done, Sir. -----Original Message----- From: Burdick, Dakin R [mailto:burdickd@indiana.edu] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 9:27 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Swords & ASMKA Looking at the webpage, I found that the American Song Moo Kwan Tae Kwon Do Association is headed by "Kirk I. Koskella (Grandmaster) and a staff of expert instructors, including Masters' James D. Wohlwend and In Soo Lee." ..... Doing a Google search on Kirk I. Koskella, I found: http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/lr17657.htm which reads in part: ..... "UNITED STATES SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION Litigation Release No. 17657 / August 5, 2002 Securities and Exchange Commission v. Kirk I. Koskella, O. Jay Neeley and ELTC Limited, Civil Action No. 01-C-6227 (N.D. Ill.) (WJH) ..... Now this might not be the same Kirk Koskella, since the one in the fraud case is in Orem, UT, and the ASMKA is in Idaho. BUT.... we can find the following site (a guest book): http://martial-arts-network.com/guestfeb9.htm which reads: "Guest : Kirk I. Koskella .... So apparently the Grandmaster Koskella and the fraudulent Koskella are one and the same. The Salt Lake Tribune writes at: http://www.sltrib.com/2002/mar/03292002/business/723501.htm That on Mar. 29, 2003: "Utah Attorney Added To Fraud Indictment ..... If you're interested, the ASMKA's instructor oath can be found at: http://www.song-moo-kwan.net/certified_instructor and it reads in part: "I pledge further, that I will never abandon the tenets, and teachings, which reflect personal integrity and honor. I will accept the appointments ceded to me within the school, and the American Song Moo Kwan Association and by personal request received of Grandmaster Kirk I. Koskella as it may pertain to my conduct as a Black Belt Instructor and teacher of the Martial Art of Tae Kwon Do, Song Moo Kwan style" As for the other instructors listed in ASMKA site: James D. Wohlwend is listed as a Tae Kwon Do instructor from Orem, UT at: http://www.masterssite.com/world_registry.htm The certificates at that site cost $25 to $125 and they come from Martial Arts Masters World Federation Inc. M.A.M.W.F. P.O. Box 1859 Dunedin, FL 34697 USA .... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/2003 --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "James Allison" To: Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:17:00 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido for the aged Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read your message about starting Hapkido and age 50. I believe that Hapkido would have many benefits for someone older. But it also depends on the Instructor you train with and the shape your body is in now. Must people think that you automatically have to start doing the advanced falling skills in the being. Folks that teach that way are not good teachers. Also my advice is don’t do anything that you don’t feel that is safe. Dive rolls over obstacles, letting under qualified people throw you etc. All the horror stories about dislocations and bone breaks are hog wash. I saw more people get those injuries at the AAU junior Olympics one year than my whole career in Hapkido. Hope that helps, James Allison www.hapkidosunmookwan.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:49:31 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido and age Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Byron Wilson, The demands of Hapkido IMHO should not deter you from learning it. The kicking in Hapkido (assuming you choose a kicking version) should be only slightly more demanding that a TKD workout. Learning the technique is study and repetition, and age has little impact on that. Falling may be where you take the biggest beating. Go slowly and learn falling well. I have been doing Hapkido for over 30 years. I would not trade one ache for a moment less training. >As my body advances toward becoming potting soil, I would like to remain >fit, flexible and, when absolutely necessary, lethal, without continuing to >nurse broken bones, hyper joints and deep bruises.< Why would you want to die in good shape - Use it up baby!!! >Secondly, do any of you have an opinion of the efficacy of pressure point fighting and its practical application as a skill that would compliment my TKD training and offer addition skills upon which to draw when necessary?< IMHO using pressure points in self-defense is highly overrated. It is not that they don't work, it is just that most of them don't work well enough to overcome the adrenal response. The PP that do work well in every case may do more damage than you desire. And I do use PP in my Hapkido. As an aside, do not be fooled by PP magic. Hitting you on the head with a shovel is effective whether or not I squeeze triple warmer - 13!! Getting in the WAY, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:53:55 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Regarding Fans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I'm glad this was brought up because I'm going to take the opportunity to ask a question that I've always had in the back of my head, but have been afraid to ask due to fear of insulting someone (or, the fear of showing my ignorance...you be the judge). Here goes: What is the deal with fans in the Chinese and Korean Martial arts? Seriously, putting all anachronistic considerations aside, what in the world are you going to do with a fan in order to defend yourself? Now, in all fairness, I've never seen one up close or held one in my hand. So, if the frame were made of hard wood or iron, I can see how you could have just folded it up and whacked the bejeezus out of the Han Dynasty equivalent of John Q. Carjacker (unless he's doing a drive-by in his rickshaw). Also, since it's a fan, this would be a pretty innocuous item...I guess the ancient equivalent of carrying a can of mace, or a walking cane. Problem is...in the forms I've seen you don't see much in the way of "fold it up, and box his ears". No, they're always open (so you can see the pretty butterflies and flowers), and the movements look like...I don't know, it just doesn't look like fighting. Looks more like movement for the sake of creating aesthetic appeal rather than reinforcing fighting movements. I could be wrong. Somebody help me out here. Craig "Fanning the Flames" Stovall Ok, that was a bad sign-off...they can't all be good. Sue me. Or beat me to death with a fan. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:32:43 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Song_Mu_Kwan_&_Korean_Sword_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dakin: Nice job on the Song Mu Kwan research. Too bad about the indictment stuff, though. Left a pretty good dent in my "Have-A-Nice-Day", I don't mind saying. Seems the guy had everything but a Florida address, ne? Just a thought on your closing line RE: the swords themselves. When you mentioned "440 steel", was that intended to indicate "440 stainless steel"? People who are interested in serious cutting with swords need to shy away from stainless as it tends to be a bit too brittle for such applications. Thats not just me talking. There was a big discussion about this on E-Budo and the folks who actually produce such weapons seem to be pretty much unanimous on this. Its also the reason folks with any brains don't use those stainless steel wall-hangers sold in most MA suppliers for demo-s. A word to the wise, yes? Getting back to that translation of Gen Qi-s' Boxing Canon there is also a reprint of QI MEN JIAN ( Gen. Qi's chapter on the use of the Jian or straight sword) found in the book on Northern Shaolin Sword by Dr. Yang, Jwing Ming with a variation of the same material in a book called The DRAGON WALKING SWORDSMANSHIP by Douglas H Y Hsieh (Meadea Enterprise Co., 1983). I should mention that the latter book takes greater liberties with the material, though. BTW: I continue to find various quotes taken from Gen Qi's swordsmanship material--- in English--- but have yet to find out where people are getting these English translations from. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:11:52 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Bong Soo Han Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Regarding Dakins most recent post..I was recently speaking to GM Han, and he related to me that he has never promoted anyone to a rank above 5th dan, but yet I hear of people quite regularly that claim to be 7th or 8th dan GMs under him.....Odd........... J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:08:06 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Specs_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Danny: ".....One last question (well maybe two) for those of you that have cutting swords you are happy with. How much does your sword weigh and where is the balance point?....." As any decent sword practitioner will tell you, the specs on a sword are highly specific to its application and the physique of the person wielding the weapon. In my own case I can give specifications only for my own personal sword but perhaps it will provide some guidance. The sword, by itself tips the scale at almost exactly 2# with the sheath weighing in at another 11 oz. From tip to pommel the sword is 40 inches of which the grip is 11 inches. I should also add the this length is specific to my 5-7 height. The blade is 1 5/16 inch wide and approximately 3/16 in thick. The wrap on the handle is a standard pattern one would find on any typical Japanese sword, though the material has been treated with a resin by my sword teacher to increase tack and therefore control. The balance point is approximately 6 inches forward of the guard which at first thought would seem to detract from cutting performance. However, I have performed a number of bup with this sword and found that execution of more sophisticated moves such as inverted parries and coiling is significantly easier than with other swords who balance point is farther forward, and the cutting performance was not significantly better with those swords. There is always a lot of talk about how less curved the Korean sword is so for your guidance I will say that the curve or depression (Jap. "Sori") is approximately 3/4 in. on a blade of 28 3/4 inches at approximately 16 inches from the tip. I have had only a limited opportunity to practice thrusts to a target but have yet to experience anything but a direct transmission of thrust into the target. IMVHO, though, I would not want any greater curve than what I have had I anything to say about it. By comparison I have a very good quality muk guem with about half the curve and the comfort level when practicing thrusts with that item is much better despite its all wood construction. Hope this helps. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Kirk Koskella" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:12:29 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Swords and the ASMKA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Burdick, Dakin R" Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Swords & ASMKA Mr. Burdick: I am the same person as described in the article regarding the transfer of $500M in bonds determined to be valueless. I am also the person who purchased them, turned the parties in to the SEC and was subsequently fined. Reading the article further and the underlying articles, you may find that I purchasesd these securities after they were fradulently misrepresented to me. Otherwise, tell my how passing $500M in bad bonds could remain a civil case? Second, I am the person named in the Utah article as having had an ownership position in the companies named in Utah. Please note that none of the parties named in the indictment have been found guilty of anything. An indictment is an accusation. I do not stand accused. Much is made regarding accusations. As for the supplies. Initial ordering was set up with schools which are members until we reached a point where manufacturing was able to be conducted on a direct basis. We now work directly with the manufacturer. Swords are another thing altogether. I am affiliated with the World Haidong Gumdo Federation. I make orders for specific swords from Korea and, depending upon the requirements of the purchaser, the sword is built to specifications. A WHGF Sword is still available (rather pricey) but nice. You would do well to ask for official Korean government documentation as to the formation of the KTA (which I have received from Grand Master Ro, Hee Sang (son of the founder). This demonstrates the person, and persons who created the organizations, regardless of popular opinion. Incidently, although Grand Master Ro, Byung Jick still writes a weekly collumn in Korea, he is well and resides in Minneapolis, Minnesota. As for the MAMWF listing. My certificates do not include the one mentioned here. I did receive one in the mail. Master Bong Soo Han was the President of the World Martial Arts Masters Union (in Los Angeles) at one point. I presumed that this was a fledgling site several years ago. I place no credence in this organizations' representations. Should we set the record straight - I am one of three people in the world who received an award of appreciation from the Korean National Demonstration Team and Lee, Kyu Hung, Master of Taekwondo demonstration in thenopening Ceremony of the 24th Olympic Games in Seoul Korea, Head of the National Taekwondo Demonstration Team. The first recipient being the Queen of England and the third Master James Wohlwend (August 1, 2000). My sponson to the Kukkiwon is Master Kim, Chang Sung, Chairman of Awards and Punishment. My services to Grand Master Han have been publicly demonstrated in a special commemorative issue of Taekwondo Times, celebrating the 30th anniversary of Grand Master Bong Soo Han's International Hapkido Federation, and as as a guest during Wesley Snipes "Master's of the Martial Arts. By refrence; contact GM Joon Rhee, GM Hee Il Cho. Let us all hope that we can live our lives in such a manner as to present the complete facts. If you are interested in the cases. I have several piles of documents which represent the true facts... Kirk I. Koskella _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest