Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:52:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #192 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. straight or curved swords (A. Boyd) 2. RE: straight/curved +/- (Farral, Kim) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Get_more_degrees_than_a_thermometer!!?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. Yellow Bamboo (Burdick, Dakin R) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Straight_vs_Curved_controversy?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. TKD, INDIA (nateasan venkataraman) 7. Hall of Fame, etc. (J.R. West) 8. straight/curved + or - (Steve Kincade) 9. Re: No touch Knockout (DPRYGA) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:22:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] straight or curved swords Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been very attached to the idea that curved blades generate more cutting power than straight blades for a very long time. My exposure to the discussions on the Sword Forum International message boards is leading me to question that belief. The information there suggests that the geometry of the blade's cross-section has more bearing on this than curvature. Due to the great variety of blade designs it is hard to test one element in isolation - especially on my budget! As a result of this budgetary limitation and the lack of freedom I have for obtaining swords here in the RoK, I still cannot say which is better (or even if one is better at all). I freely admit to my bias for the curved blade, though! ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Farral, Kim" To: 'Dojang' Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:56:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: straight/curved +/- Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Pil Seung... Advantages and Disadvantages of Straight vs. Curved Blade is placed predominately on the user... Typically, a straight blade is shorter that the standard curved blades...(I believe these are the correct lengths) 21" to 27" for the straight blades vs. 30" to 36" for the curved blade in the "Standard" lengths...of course shorter versions are available in both the Straight and Curved styles... The straight blade is considered more effective for close quarters fighting, theoretically not requiring as much room for a sweeping blow or slashing like the curved blade which uses a partial to full arc motion for the attack as opposed to the straight blade which is pulled across the target for the final cut after an initial blow... The straight blade is also considered better for thrusting attacks since it is shorter and requires a straight line motion for thrusting as opposed to and arcing motion for thrust attacks with the curved blade which is usually held at a higher angle than a straight blade to initiate the piercing thrust... The curved blade does not require and initial blow to be effective nor pulling across the target for the final cut as both are accomplished with the arc of the attack...the curvature of the blade allows the sword to cut, slash, and lay open the target with one motion whereas the straight blade requires two motions...the initial blow or attack then the pulling of the blade across the target to cut. slash, or lay open... It basically comes down to two motions with the straight blade vs. one motion with the curved blade...and the close quarters vs. open quarters...though either can be used in each environment...just depends on the skill of the user...and...as I stated before...the advantages vs. disadvantages is really determined by the abilities, agility, and expertise of the user... MVHO Pil Seung! The One and Only "Tink" Kim G. Farral 5th Dan TKD ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:58:46 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Get_more_degrees_than_a_thermometer!!?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just got this spam in my mailbox. I suppose there are always those who like to cut corners. Since Rudy's last post cited someone complaining about ersatz "experts" I thought I would do my part to help upgrade the instructor pool in the KMA. Also might make some KMA members a little more comfortable if more people started sporting mail-order degrees. Afterall we don't want to discriminate against those who may not have what it takes to get legit standings the ol' fashion way. ".......Sick and tired of your stupid friends getting high paying jobs because they have a degree? Does the prospect of studying hard and wasting years of your life and THOUSANDS of dollars so you MIGHT get a decent career sound dumb? We offer Bachelors, Masters, MBA, Doctorate (PHD) and All Diplomas! INCREASE YOUR EARNING POWER BY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS A YEAR! IT'S EASY! CALL 212-504-3202 NOW. THE LINE IS OPEN 24 HOURS A DAY. No Books, No Classes, No Exams or Interviews. Just call this number and give yourself a career advantage over your friends and co-workers. CALL 212-504-3202 NOW. THE LINE IS OPEN AND READY. (international callers dial +1-212-504-3202) Our Diplomas are from Prestigious non-accredited universities, and will look great in your office, den or resume. GET AHEAD NOW. GET THAT NEW CAR. CALL 212-504-3202 RIGHT NOW. NO OBLIGATION!......." Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:55:36 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Yellow Bamboo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks Jose, for point out the Yellow Bamboo site. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time! EEEAAAARRRGHGHHGHGHGHHGHGHGHGHGH!!!! Yellow Shirt Dakin --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:35:14 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Straight_vs_Curved_controversy?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Michael: ".....I appreciate all the sword responses to my question. However, I didn't see any comments representing the advantages of the straight or disadvantages of the curved. Weapons around this long have to have some ?? Or am I just a straight blade in a curved world?...." I start this post with the disclaimer that "no generalization is worth a damn--not even this one." So while I will make some pretty broad statements, I do so for the sake of convenience in keep a limit on bandwidth, K? Sword history seems to favor the idea that sword architecture may have started with the spear and that the earliest "swords" were nothing more than replacement spearpoints held in ones' belt and sometimes pressed into service for close combat situations. This would support the idea that the earliest sword was a straight, thrusting weapon. Its not that you couldn't hack with it, but the line of greatest strength was along its axis. While this is a particularly effective tool, it DOES take quite a bit to learn how to position oneself in order to stick the adversary without getting stuck in return. Hence the straight bladed weapon tends to have a longer learning curve. There is also the problem of a mounted warrior (horse, carriage, chariot) sticking someone while in motion and being unable to withdraw the weapon fast enough not to have it wrenched out of their hand. Then there is the curved weapon which is intended as more of a melee' weapon. Slashing strokes are not as efficient as thrusts but can be learned faster. So if you are educating a number of conscripts on a short timetable a curved slashing weapon may be a better choice. The curved weapon is a bit more forgiving in taking a shock as well as effectively clearing a large area while mounted. Most cultures have tried to marry the benefits of both architectures of blade and the controversy of Straight vs Curved continued all the way up the 20th century with Gen. Patton (yes, THAT Patton) designing a straight cavalry sword for use by the US Army. The Korean sword tends to be a bit straighter than its Japanese counterpart, but there is also many references to "Korean swords" which are obviously little more than the Chinese Jian, or straight sword by another name. In studying the MYTBTJ you will notice that all of the sword hyung are performed with approximately the same sort of curved sword. From what I have learned so far this is nothing more than a suggestion supported by the sort of drawing that accompany the texts. The Long Sword, Short Sword and Admirals' Sword are all different architectures and there has been a tendency to change biomechanics of the hyung rather than appreciate the sword involved. As I write this I am thinking of the most glaring mistake I have seen in the MYTBTJ tapes from Turtle Press. In the interpretation of the BON KUK GUEM BUP a coiling technique is performed with a standard two-handed sabre, but is executed in the manner of a single- handed Jian using one hand. The result is visually flashy but would be suicidal in combat. Another example is the inverted or "hanging" parry which is often ignored in favor of the Shallow Ascending cut which, again, is a flashier, more aggressive move. I think if we are ever to bring these hyung back to the KMA community we need to give great weight to the sort of issue you raised with your question. Not all swordwork is created equal. Sorry for the digression. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "nateasan venkataraman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:58:31 +0530 Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD, INDIA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Sir, E. Raji(President)NATA, INDIA, we would like to participate in the Mexican Open June 19-20 Guadalajara, Mexico. If you wish to send details please mail to us and also let us know their web site and Email,(mexican open)Please help us. send your reply soon. Thanks E.Raji(President) NATA,INDIA E-mail: arcotnorthtkd@hotmail.com / northarcottkd@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hot new gizmos. Check 'em out. http://www.msn.co.in/Computing/Gizmos/ Right now! --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:55:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hall of Fame, etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have received a ton of these throughout the years, and believe it or not, they are designed only to be "moneymakers" starting from the banquet and hotel reservations, and going all the way up to larger plaques, commemorative books and pictures. One of my students in Alabama once nominated me for some HoF book about 20 years ago. I was quite surprised by the book when it arrived, but even more surprised by some of the (other) Jackasses that were in it, including one guy that said he "never actually trained, but tested himself for promotion at local tournaments".What an incredible waste of time and money. Caveat emptor.......J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Steve Kincade" To: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:34:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] straight/curved + or - Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael Whalen asked: > I appreciate all the sword responses to my question. However, I didn't see any comments representing the advantages of the > straight or disadvantages of the curved. According to my instructor, Dr. Kimm, straight blades work better with the Korean sword techniques which emphasize thrusting more that the slashing techniques of Japanese swordsmanship. There is also a twist during the thrust, which perhaps is easier with a straight blade. I remember from my Kuk Sool Days doing Joong Kum Hyung . There was a bunch of thrusting in that form, yes? The oldest sword form we practice in Han Mu Do, Cho Sun Se Bup, is performed with a straight, double-edged sword. However, for cutting bamboo, we use a curved bladed cutting sword. So many swords, so little time... Thanks, Steve Kincade --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:16:41 -0500 From: DPRYGA To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: No touch Knockout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net on 4/29/03 5:01 AM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net at the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > Has anyone ever seen one? Master Mac, I have personally experienced, to the point I could not breath, see or stand,light touch or possibly no touch techniques. Up until I had experienced this, I thought it all was a bunch of bull. Even after I had it done to me, I still thought it was balony. However, It's hard to argue that a technique doesn't work when you're on the floor gasping for air:-0.........Dave --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest