Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:30:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #209 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Greetings from the way west (L. Veuleman) 2. My frustrating dilemma (Luke Edwards) 3. Who cares? I do (J T) 4. wrestling and throws (Burdick, Dakin R) 5. Schools (Chuck Luntz) 6. Bruce's Reply...I'll bite! (FirstPe315@aol.com) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Mimics?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. New book on Pyongyang (fwd) (Ray Terry) 9. 'roid use (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:44:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "L. Veuleman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Greetings from the way west Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Ya'll...Or should I say ALOHA! No Master Mac, I don't know the korean word for aloha....or maybe I do :D By the way thanks again for everything, and tell the ladies MIndy and the Mrs I said thanks for the hospitality as well. Yup, I am on my Hawaii class trip for BScience In Hospitality Management in Tourism. Just figured I would rub in the sand, sun, and fruity drinks a little. All joking aside, we are having a great time, and also flying to Maui wednesday, then Big Island a few days later, then one more island ( cant remember the name...dang MaiTai's) for a few days, then back to Oahu for the last three days (14 total). As always, packed the "beach" dobak in hopes of a chance to workout. Alright, enough rubbing. Take care guys Charlie Veuleman ************** L. Charles Veuleman - http://www.bluewavekarate.com Natchitoches Karate Institute - Chittim Jordan Tae Kwon Do 318-356-7727 Natchitoches Kustom Inks - Quality Screen Printing 318-332-1676 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Luke Edwards" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:58:40 +0930 Subject: [The_Dojang] My frustrating dilemma Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the pursuit of knowledge I have moved away from my dojang and enrolled in University. My lectures run through the time I used to train in and I don't have enough money to start a new and closer martial art. Consequently, I can feel my fitness, health, physical ability and quality of life declining. As hard as I practice the skills I have learnt I am learning nothing new and there is only so much you can do on your own. I am also less motivated to train and my Karate is my livelihood. Does anyone have any advice? tang soo (said with slightly less motivation than normal) - Luke Edwards _________________________________________________________________ MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 06:29:15 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Who cares? I do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "my question is to all those who ask these questions....who really cares!....." Apparently there are enough people on this list who do care or the subject would have died out quickly. If you don't care to discuss the topic then don't. I must have missed the several topics of discussion you brought up for us to talk about. Just be careful because if you're not, you just may learn something you didn't know. If you have nothing of value to add then like my Grandma use to tell me when I was young "Sit still and let the adults talk." The evil Jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:55:30 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] wrestling and throws Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kirk wrote: >Your Dissertation is occasionally referenced, particularly on the Western >martial arts lists (such as the [western-arts] yahoo group). The most >popular part is the Throws Chart. The only complaint I've ever seen is a >wish that the chart would have been more exhaustive. :-) Thanks! I did that chart after my advisor got lost in the techniques and suggested a guide to the technique comparisons might be helpful. The reason it doesn't go very far is because I really couldn't. I was limited by the books that actually named the techniques. The Japanese are very particular about naming every variation, but the British wrestlers didn't have that sort of practice, at least in their written works. If someone would go chat with some of the old hookers [that's a pro wrestling term folks -- not the OTHER kind!], and collect some of the oral tradition, we might extrapolate further. Who is still around these days? Lou Thesz? That might be a good idea! Oh, and check out Farmer Burns' manual -- it's not half bad. Eventually I'll redo my hapkido manual, and when I do it will include not only the Korean terminology, but also the Japanese and English (and Chinese if I can manage it!). Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Chuck Luntz" To: Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:07:01 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Schools Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To All: I am looking for a WTF school or schools in Uppsala or Lund Sweden for a student, who relocated back to Sweden. She will be attending the University at one of the the locations. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Charles E Luntz, President Charles Luntz & Associates, Inc. Retained Executive Search 14323 S Outer 40 Suite 400 South Chesterfield, MO 63017 314-275-7992 314-275-7063-FAX --__--__-- Message: 6 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:09:56 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce's Reply...I'll bite! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce- Interesting dissertation as you often present here. As many of your posts, some interesting things and a lot of verbage void of brevity. You know, some people (not necessarily me you know) may see your verbose and whitty responses as a cover for the fact that maybe you don't know more than what your quoting from a variety of great books you have sitting next to your computer for just such banter. Perhaps my lack of instruction to you about what I may know (or admittedly, may not) is due to the fact that in regard to this particular question....as I wrote "I think"...I don't care. That is to say what you say is contradicted next week by somebody else and so on and so on. Therefore whether the "true" origins of Hapkido are steeped in Japanese Karate, true Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu, Shaolin Long-fist or ancient Pankration warriors....as I said before...who cares! I find it interesting scholarship of which I am a fan, but the argument itself is pointless. Hapkido, has much room for evolution and indeed it has followed this sort of progression. It is often taught through the personality and background of said instructor and the other arts that they practice. Indeed, my method and style of teaching is decidedly different than Mr. Garrison taught me, although much of the hallmarks remain the same. I teach Hapkido (and Judo and TKD to name a few) as the main art and it's recent History and inception came from Korea and by Koreans. However, if it has cousins that are related to Japanese or Chinese martial-arts...great! I don't care. My suggestion Bruce Sims (you are indeed brave to say your name) is that you save your pedantic musings brought about in discourse through typing (hey I sound like you) to somebody who is indeed impressed with it. As for me, I'm not. P.S. I am sure you are already composing your next dissertation to me but be warned, you INDEED will have the last word as I don't often choose to get into schoolyard shoving matches (verbally that is) with others, I don't really have the time. But if you choose to engage in such a contest, in my opinion, you are showing your subtle connection to any chubby Florida GM wannabes, as cited in your previous message, by such childish behavior. Jeff Hindley (happy) In a message dated 5/13/2003 2:50:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Now I realize that this response is more that a post-puberescent troll who > is unwilling to sign his name deserves. But then, thats probably why you > are unable to contribute anything more to the discussion that you did. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:14:50 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Mimics?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ali: ".....The dynamics are the same ... in some places the ways of the colonizer become more highly valued than the indigenous ways and their influence will persist even after the colonizer is gone....." As I was reading your post I was thinking about the "Stockholm Syndrome" in which released victims of abduction are observed to share the values of the people who abducted them. This was probably best seen in the case of Patty Hearst when she was kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army. Thats going back a ways. I can understand what you are suggesting, then, and even on a national scale I suppose its plausible. What continues to puzzle me is how resistant the Koreans themselves are to investigating the Chinese side of their traditions. Even quite recently BLACK BELT magazine had an interview with a Hwa Rang Do practitioner who reinterated all of the same mythology of the last 50 years, and this even after GM Lee did HIS interview and down-played or reframed a lot of what he had said before. Along these same lines there was yet another string on the AIKIDO JOURNAL Net that reprocessed the whole issue of the Choi Yong Sul lineage and who it is that is teaching the "authentic" art. The crap never ends, does it? Of course, this raises an interesting question. Are people who are better informed mandated to share their information? By this I mean that if someone wants to learn, sword, or cane or spear--- whatever--- are KMA teachers required to teach what is generally accepted and taught, or are we required to teach what most closely captures the nature of KMA? For instance, if a teacher is instructing a student in a spear bup from a Japanese tradition, or a stick technique from Escrima but representing it as a Korean MA, are people who know better required to say something? We train and dedicate our lives to a particular approach to self-improvement. What, if anything, do we owe others when a violation of or a deviation from a particular path occurs? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] New book on Pyongyang (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarded message: I would like to inform the list members interested in North Korea of the following new publication: Chris Springer: Pyongyang. The Hidden History of the North Korean Capital. Published by Entente Bt., Budapest, 2003. Distributed by Saranda Books, Gold River, CA. 159 pages. ISBN 963 00 8104 0. US$ 29.95. An overview of its contents and ordering information can be found under http://www.hiddenhistory.info. This book is a kind of city guide, describing the meaning and history of the well known (and many not so well known) sites in Pyongyang, giving details you would never find in official North Korean Publications. I would not necessarily dare to take it along to Pyongyang, but I can highly recommend it as preparation for and wrapping up after a visit to Pyongyang. It makes interesting reading. I personally was not involved in the preparation of the book (and won't have a share in any profits), but I provided most of the 100 color photos illustrating it. And I am a bit proud to see my pictures in such fine print. Eckart Dege Prof. Dr. Eckart Dege Geographisches Institut Universitaet Kiel D-24098 Kiel Germany --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] 'roid use Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FWIW, there is an interesting and fairly objective (IMO) article in the March issue of Men's Health magazine regarding the (safe?) use of steroids. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest