Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:00:09 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #220 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Ki Breaking (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Breaking (Rudy Timmerman) 3. Korean Movies (J T) 4. Hello / Intro (Pat Corbett) 5. KSW and other stuff !--From Cowboy Country (Ken McDonough) 6. Koreans kick high? So does everyone else kick low? (Burdick, Dakin R) 7. Literal translation (Wicker, H. Keith) 8. Undercover Brother (Burdick, Dakin R) 9. Louisiana Tournament (ISA Headquarters) 10. Re: Koreans kick high? So does everyone else kick low? (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Re:_Perhaps,_a_caveat...... (rachel two) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 01:22:55 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Ki Breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fred writes: > I 'd like to learn how to some breaking with soft > palm technique, gosh where is Norwalk anyway? Hello Fred: I have not been there myself, but I understand Norwalk is close to Toledo. If you make it to the NKMAA Mid West seminar in Norwalk on June 7th, I will personally look after your request. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 01:55:00 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles writes: > Yes, I think the parking lot session brought me to a basic adept level, > but I think 3 bricks will require a better understanding of advanced > concepts, like breathing. FWIW we have found that support height in > relation to the height of the person attempting to do the break has a > lot to do with maintaining the proper wrist angle. When the elbow is > above the palm at impact, there seams to be a subconcious effort to > push rather than let the palm fall. Also, many beginners that hold the > hand up high and then let it drop, tend to put tension in the arm and > shoulder, and find the fluid wave up/down motion to work better. Hello Charles: From what I saw at the Jackson seminar, I think you already have proper breathing techniques. All you need to do is apply them at the appropriate time. As far as angle, you are correct; however, since we want to be able to do it any which way, don't get too attached to a particular set up. I personally just like to walk up to the block and do the break without any set up (much like the fluid motion you speak of). > This Saturday I was unable to do two bricks (probably too tense). I have broken ten blocks for an advertising pic once, and I have also been unable to break even one. Sometimes your mind/body just does not want to cooperate. No problem, that is why we (HKD) have many more things we can twist and bend:) > The bricks we had were very wet so I was only able to break one at a > time. A wet block absorbs energy different, that is why you might have had the problem. > I will be putting a lot of energy into our invitational tournament so > that I can raise enough funds to go to Houston in July. It will be great to see you and your students there, and I wish you well with the tournament. > BTW I have a protocol question. Since I am not a member of NKMAA is it > appropriate for me to use Sa Ja Nim in addressing you, or should I use > the more generic Kwan Jang Nim? Just curious. On this forum, it seems more appropriate to use first names. Personally, I am fine with whatever feels comfortable to you. BTW, when you are a member of JRs group, therefore you are kin:) There are very few Masters or orgs I would feel so comfortable with, and I am sure JR is equally picky about whom he befriends. It seems that we have set a precedence in two Korean competing martial art orgs getting along so well. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 05:59:28 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Movies Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Melinda, I have seen those movies you have mentioned. By far Musa is an excellent movie. The cinematography is great and the martial art fighting scenes were done with a lot of realism to them. You can get the VCD or DVD at zoommovie.com. Also I would recommend My Wife is a Gangster. It is another Korean movie which is more of a comedy, but has some pretty good fight scenes. Jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 06:23:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Pat Corbett To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hello / Intro Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wanted to just say Hello to all members. I just recently found and joined this mailing list and look forward to learning from the wisdom of the group. I am a member of the World Tang Soo Do Association and have just recently tested for my Black Belt. I have two sons, with the youngest also in Karate and he is a Black Belt. I look forward to hearing about other styles, and am very interested in learing new techniques for teaching young kids, ages 5 and up. Pat Corbett Jr. Pleasant Gap, PA World Tang Soo Do Association --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 06:58:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KSW and other stuff !--From Cowboy Country Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While whittlin' and drinkin a little moonshine this morning, I ran across this blurb, from a learned poster: Response: Darn,that Tulsa moonshine is good stuff. Anyway, yeah...I agree. And, then there are differences from the one bro in Houston and the one bro in Pusan. You know, I was in Pusan and I watched a tournament hosted by the KSW Korean branch. There was this one American dude brought over to participate in the tournament. He was particularly good in the sparring and cleaning some clocks. Kind of weird, they did not like head shots. I was thinking that often the training is U.S. schools is more stringent then over in Korea. But that is a generalization. Anyway, gotta get back to the whittlin'. Well I am fixin to go down and pick up some horse feed. Just won the cattle ropin contest. Y'all come back now...you hear. Big Ken --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:41:32 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Koreans kick high? So does everyone else kick low? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kent pointed out that Jhoon Rhee was the instructor of Atlee Chittim. Many of Rhee's students (theoretically Chungdokwan, right?) joined the USKA under Robert Trias. Many "Korean karate" stylists in the 1950s were also US Karate pioneers. Personally I'm not of the opinion that differentiating between karate and t'aekwondo is a good thing. Kent also wrote: >For the record, we do have the high kicks and roundhouse kicks characteristic of a Korean art Everyone should go visit the AAU Karate Nationals some time. The last time I went, I was convinced that they run a much better program than does the USTU. The level of sportsmanship was much higher, the professionalism of the referees was superb, and the kicks were (surprise surprise) just as high. I remember watching two college teams go at it. One was tangsudo, the other Shotokan. The Shotokan guys started out with reverse punches and the tangsudo guys with jump kicks. As the jump kicks started landing, the Shotokan guys went airborne too, and pretty soon it was hard to tell them apart. Don't overgeneralize and think that only Koreans kick high, ok? All of this was in reply to Walter Morrison's: "I have studied CDK for over 2 years now, and I have never heard any Japanese spoken in our school." Jere Hilland added: "During the 30 years I have been hanging around the KMA I have never heard Japanese terms used by any CDK practitioners (except your group in LA and that is only on the DD)." Do you guys remember Duk-Song Son's "Korean Karate"? In there GM Son mentions that Koreans in Korea called the art "karate" as late as the 1960s. That's probably because that's what it was. I sparred with one of GM Son's guys back in the 1980s and his style was really weird - a jerky imitation of Shotokan karate. Never seen anything like it since, but that also reminds me of an old documentary called "Fighting Black Kings" (the 1973 World Kyokushinkai Championships, I think). If you get it, watch the Japanese champion take on the guy from the African federation. The Japanese champion has a very high stance and just charlie horses up the African, who fights out of a very deep side stance. Painful to watch, but instructive. Don't make sweeping generalizations about styles, especially if you training to actually fight someone. Live in the moment, and realize that people, and styles, change. Feeling an urge to read Lao-zi again, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:59:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Literal translation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear DD members, My understanding is that the Japanese word "kata" means "optimal form" or "optimal technique". What are the literal meanings of the words hyung, poomse, and tul ? How are they different? Thanks, Keith Wicker's Korean Martial Arts, USKMAF League City, Texas --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:59:46 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Undercover Brother Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you folks are interested in fun movies, check out Undercover Brother. I avoided it because it looked so dumb, but it has a lot of fun stuff. If you remember Enter the Dragon fondly, you'll enjoy the various references to it in this movie. And where else can you see Doogie Howser rip someone's heart out? Oh, and I'll rent the transporter this weekend -- thanks for the recommendation! Yo! Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:51:17 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Louisiana Tournament Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On June 22nd, the ISA in conjunction with White Tiger Martial Arts Academy, will hold a tournament in Kenner, Louisiana. Contact: White Tiger Martial Arts. 4216 Florida Ave Kenner, LA 70065 Arthur L. Robertson, III 504-469-7837 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Koreans kick high? So does everyone else kick low? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Kent pointed out that Jhoon Rhee was the instructor of Atlee Chittim. > Many of Rhee's students (theoretically Chungdokwan, right?) joined the > USKA under Robert Trias. Many "Korean karate" stylists in the 1950s > were also US Karate pioneers. My educated? guess here is that Mr. Chittim was closer with Mr. Trias and probably spent more time with Mr. Trias than any of his other instructors. This may contribute significantly to his continued use of Japanese terms in a style he claimed as Korean. ??? Again, no disrespect intended. Just a guess as to how things developed to the point they are now. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:11:27 -0700 (PDT) From: rachel two Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:_Perhaps,_a_caveat...... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hmmm, so far i have only seen my dojang in action so it's hard to speak for all KSW. but I absolutely love my teachers - my Kwang Jhang Nim is a fantastic fighter and teacher, and he's also one of the coolest, kindest, and most casual people I know. For exaple every year he holds a KSW fund-raiser for an area child cancer patient, and gets a pie in the face as part of the fundraising. :D i'm only a white belt, but i've never encountered anything but tolerance and a desire to help from my teachers and classmates. Of course there is a bit of arrogance associated with it - KSW is the best and the like. However, I've never heard anyone actually insult another style. Plus, when Anyone speaks of their MA, there's a bit of arrogance in the background, after all one has pride in one's style, and picked it over all the others. If there is arrogance in KSW, i'm geussing it's becuase we're a minority. I have yet to meet someone who's heard of KSW, even my martial artist friends. When i tell people I do KSW, later they'll ask me "so how's karate going?" So, like any minority group, we're extra defensive - TKD, kung fu, karate, all have tons of students and movies to defend their merit, but students of KSW are on their own. If you encounter arrogance in a KSW student, please keep in mind we're a minority and act as such, so don't judge too harshly. :) as for the 'other groups' i'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that you're talking about kuk sul do and the like. it's true, they have pretty much the exact same curriculum. i personally hope that i never have to resort to a dojang like that, because in my view they took all the work of Kuk Sa Nim (the founder of KSW) and called it their own, under a different name. That's not an opinion influenced by KSW, as I've never heard another KSW person even mention the subject - i've done fairly extensive research on MA independently. I just think it's a sneaky thing to do in any aspect of life. But if it works for someone, let live i suppose. -rachel --- bsims@midwesthapkido.com wrote: > Dear Rachel: > > "......Have you tried Kuk Sool Won? It's very > similar to > Hapkido, but with a greater emphasis on forms and a > lower stance ......" Now that > said, I also think that there are groups who go > overboard the other way and > produce a sense of elitism and arrogance regarding > their art and approach > as compared to other KMA. I have come to believe > that the Kuk Sool Won > folks fall into this latter group. Technically the > biomechanics and methods > are often close to the Hapkido material of other > schools albeit with > generally more emphasis on the Chinese heritage. > Nothing wrong there. > However, I have been routinely disappointed at the > arrogance of the people > I have talked with who are members of the WKSWA, and > have come to walk a > wide circle around both them and their organization. > Interestingly, there > are also folks who follow similar curriculum by > virtue of having been > attached to the WKSWA at one time or another. While > a large portion of the > curriculum is nearly identical to the WKSWA, the > attitudes I have > experienced with these groups are much more > accomodating, tolerant and > accepting, and these attitudes seem to trickle down > to even the most junior > belts. My conclusion would be then, that while the > WKSWA is probably very > organized, has a consistent curriculum and fine > quality control, I would > recommend one of the "spin-off" groups for their > better attitudes. FWIW. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest