Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:51:06 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #221 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: american demographics article (rachel two) 2. ITF ad in TKD Times (Ray Terry) 3. Re: Re:_Perhaps,_a_caveat...... (rachel two) 4. fun in Wisconsin (Ray Terry) 5. Focus of a school (Rudy Timmerman) 6. Welcome (Rudy Timmerman) 7. RE: Martial Arts Movies (Stovall, Craig) 8. CDK TKD/Chittim (Dennis McHenry) 9. Korean Karate (Burdick, Dakin R) 10. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_High_Kicks_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 11. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Congratulations_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 12. Re Sin Moo Seminar (Beungood@aol.com) 13. Re: Ken (ISA Headquarters) 14. 3,669 push ups in an hour (ABurrese@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:21:09 -0700 (PDT) From: rachel two Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] american demographics article To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin, I don't suppose you could post that article to the onelist. i tried to find it at the American Demographics website http://www.inside.com/product/Product.asp?pf_id={9130551F-F18E-4B72-B09A-458D70A3434A} but they won't let me read it without paying. if anyone has a subscription I'd love to read the article. -rachel --- "Burdick, Dakin R" wrote: Take > a look at this month's copy of "American > Demographics." It has an > interesting study > on martial artists that says a lot about popular > belief about the > martial arts. I didn't think > the study was accurate at all -- it was too much at > odds with what I > know about the > industry and with the data from the North American > Sporting Goods > Association. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:30:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF ad in TKD Times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I noticed a full page spread in the recent issue of TKD Times from the Canadian branch of the ITF. It describes a 'new organizational structure' that allows multiple groups in one country to have direct registration and contact w/the ITF. "No longer do you need to report to a single National Governing Body. An Independent National Organization, or INO can be registered by you or your group." Any comments or guesses from the ITFers as to what is going on w/this??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:33:14 -0700 (PDT) From: rachel two Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:_Perhaps,_a_caveat...... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net just a quick add-on to my earlier response, looked it up and i spelled Kwahn Jahng Nim wrong. It was bugging me, so i had to correct it :) -rachel __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] fun in Wisconsin Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I notice that our friend, the Floridian Flounder, will be in Appleton, Wisconsin to teach an "advanced" Hapkido seminar on June 7. Anyone in the Wisconsin area up for a little fun -n- games??? :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:27:24 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Focus of a school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > The > alternative would be to talk one thing, and produce students of quite > another ilk. JR and Rudy are quality teachers not just because they > provide > good instruction, but, to a greater extent, because they provide a > sound, > positive influence and their students' deportment is a testament to > this. Hello Bruce: Thanks for the Kudos:) After having been around for as long as JR and I have, the trash talk we encounter (usually anonymous) does not bother me at all. Actually, it is a motivator for me to continue to focus my classes on more than kicking and punching. Contrary to what Dakin mentioned in his last post, I think a good martial art school can indeed focus on more than one thing, albeit a tough job. I'd like to think that I teach as decent a class as any, and I can't even imagine not emphasizing good manners and life skills right alongside kicking and punching. This concept goes back as far as the Hwa Rang Warriors or even earlier. BTW, the problems with WKSA does not mean that there are not some great teachers or schools within WKSA. I can tell you from personal experience that there are some great teachers and schools within WKSA, and I'd hate to see them painted with the same brush. Just like you hinted at, the most important thing about choosing a school is to find a good teacher who will actually work with you. If you find a good one, hang on to him/her even if you have a problem with the org s/he belongs to. Just let your Instructor deal with the politics. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:41:36 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Welcome Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Pat, welcome to the DD. If you can put up with the moderator, I think you'll find it a decent place to gather more info:) Come join some of the DD crew at various seminars. There are some great ones in Jackson, and I hope to establish something similar in the Toledo area. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:45:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Martial Arts Movies Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Speaking of martial arts movies and such... Has anyone seen 'Kung Faux', yet? I caught it last Friday night on one of the MTV channels (I think it was 339 on Direct TV). Anyway, they take old kung-fu movies and let rappers/hip-hop artists dub over the voices with a mock story line. Kind of funny to hear the hero of the movie say, "Yo, you 'bout ta git served, son!" right before he takes on the big boss. Check it out...funny stuff. Not for the kids, though. The one I saw had some salty language, and numerous drug references. Craig "Desperate for Entertainment" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:48:59 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dennis McHenry Subject: [The_Dojang] CDK TKD/Chittim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: <> This is exactly what I thought and said to Charlie V. last week when we worked out. I was wondering that if after so long of being associated with the USKA (of which I was a member of at one time) and competing against all the Japanese styles they have taken on their characteristics. It took me a long time to get the "K" and "G" words out of my vocabulary :-) Mac ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:54:07 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Karate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: >My educated? guess here is that Mr. Chittim was closer with Mr. Trias and probably spent more time with Mr. Trias than any of his other instructors. This may contribute significantly to his continued use of Japanese terms in a style he claimed as Korean. ??? I think I'll have to respectfully disagree with Ray here. First, Trias himself initially trained in boxing and then in "kenpo" under a xing-i instructor in the Philippines, not under the Japanese (with whom he was at war at the time). Also, from what I've seen and heard of Jhoon Rhee in Texas, it seems like he was hooked up with the karate guys because that was what everyone was doing. Gen. Choi came over and visited Texas and met Jhoon Rhee and talked to him about teaching taekwondo instead, just as Choi spoke to Mas Oyama (aka. Yong-I Choi) of Kyokushinkai fame. The fact that Rhee & Oyama taught karate (or kongsudo or tangsudo or however you want to pronounce it) does not make them less Korean for having done so. For goodness sake folks, Oyama was probably the most famous "Japanese" karate guy of the 20th century, and he was Korean! Don't those Koreans who were successful in the Japanese realm deserve a little credit, or are we dismissing them out-of-hand as collaborators? I think a lot of people want to wash away that era because it smacked of the tail end of Japanese colonialism, and that is something they would not like to be reminded about. I think you can either have the truth (the whole unvarnished truth, as well as we can determine it) or you can have the fantasy. Too many people want the fantasy of a glorious Korean nationalism extending back 2000 years. How is that different from Hitler's Aryan dream? Today a lot of the old Koreans that can't speak Korean are dying out, but there was a time when being "Korean" meant being a second-class Japanese. Ignoring that past means ignoring what we don't want to remember in the past and that seems to me to be a lot more dangerous than admitting a Japanese influence on Korea in the 20th century. Korean nationalism that wants to forget the Japanese influence just reminds me more of the Japanese, who don't want to remember a LOT of World War 2 (ie. the rape of Nanking, the Korean comfort women, the vivisection of American fliers, and cannibalism by the Japanese army at the end of the war). Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:32:19 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_High_Kicks_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dakin: ".....One was tangsudo, the other Shotokan. The Shotokan guys started out with reverse punches and the tangsudo guys with jump kicks. As the jump kicks started landing, the Shotokan guys went airborne too, and pretty soon it was hard to tell them apart. Don't overgeneralize and think that only Koreans kick high, ok?....." There are two never-ending mysteries for me. One is the origin of the Roundhouse kick and the other is the origin of high kicks. Beginning with Chinese traditions I have not yet found a pre-20th century form that includes a RH kick, nor have I found an Okinawan or Japanese Kata that have a RH kick. There is a low spinning toe kick which is found in the Chen TCC "Cannon Fist" form, but I am talking about the sort of high skip- in RH kick to the head that is so popular in competition. It seems that the consistent policy I have found for combat-oriented kicking is chest-and- below. That brings me to #2. While there are quite a few sports who have picked-up high kicks, it seems as though sport applications are the only place one finds them consistently. So is the origin of high kicks a matter of impressing judges and garnering points? We were talking about "traditions" a while back. Maybe we need to consider that the traditions that the Korean culture has provided to the world is making a sport of a martial art by moderating Soo- Bahk to Taek Kyon. Thoughts? In this way perhaps we KMA practitioners take the "martial" in "Korean Martial Art" more seriously than did the Korean culture historically. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:36:14 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Congratulations_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rachel: ".....i'm only a white belt, but i've never encountered anything but tolerance and a desire to help from my teachers and classmates. Of course there is a bit of arrogance associated with it - KSW is the best and the like. ........" Please don't let my critical analysis blind you to the treasure you have. It is not always easy to find a comfortable place as one begins their MA journey. Please accept my most sincere Best Wishes (and a bit of envy) that you have found an art and a teacher who fill your needs. Best of Luck, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:01:27 -0400 From: Beungood@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re Sin Moo Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a short report on Master Mike Mcarty's Sin Moo Hapkido seminar in CT featuring Dojunim JI, Han Jae. Again this seminar was a well run learning intensive event that was well attended. The seminar was two days long and a broad range techniques were taught and demonsrated and then each particpant was tested to assure that they was learned correctly. Grandmaster Ji lectured on a number of subjects and also explained the correct way to perform Dan Jon breathing and several improvised weapons techniques were shown. The Sin Moo Dojang CT run by Mike Mcarty is a class act as is his students. HApki! JAck O --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:33:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Ken Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ken signed off with: >>>Y'all come back now...you hear. Big Ken<<< Brother Ken, it is "Y'all come back now...ya'heah" George --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:54:07 -0400 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 3,669 push ups in an hour Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was known at Camp Hovey for being able to do push ups, but this.... WOW 3,669 push ups in an hour. http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/892077p-6214984c.html Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest