Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:22:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #224 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Young kids in HKD or Jujitsu (J T) 2. Mr. Karol Krauser=bone to pick with ya !! (Ken McDonough) 3. Instructors in Va. Beach (EZ Lock Inc.) 4. Pulgasari (Dragons81@aol.com) 5. roundhouse kicks (Burdick, Dakin R) 6. High Kicks (Stovall, Craig) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_"RULES=3F!=3F---_In_a_KNIFE__FIGHT=3F!=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. Re: Teaching style (Beungood@aol.com) 9. Re: roundhouse kicks (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Re: Teaching style (Ray Terry) 11. Re: High Kicks (Ray Terry) 12. A secret kick... (Robert Demers) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:07:14 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Young kids in HKD or Jujitsu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know this has been discussed before, but I was wondering about the advantages and disadvantages about teaching young kids (5-10) HKD or Jujitsu? Thanks. Jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Karol Krauser=bone to pick with ya !! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Krauser, you wrote in part: Response: Actually, I was kidding in my subject head title. Just saying hello. Said hello to your family down in Tulsa. Oh, care to share you training experiences in Cebu ? Did my in laws treat you OK ? Miss the great instruction you provided to me. Anyway, Tulsa needs a good Escrima instructor. Come home Johnny Boy... Big Ken --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "EZ Lock Inc." To: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:31:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Instructors in Va. Beach Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm not sure that he is USTU, but GM Lee, Ji Ho (sp?) is located in Virginia Beach. He is an excellent instructor, and is extremely good with kids. I am always impressed by his strength of character, and his professional manner. He is a TKD 8th dan, and also holds instructor rank in Hanmudo (not sure what level). I think you would be well served to check him out. Chris Hamilton HMD in BR --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Dragons81@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:06:17 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pulgasari Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Is the Pulgasari rumor true? Basically Kim Jong Il wanted two South Korean actors to be in this movie. They refused so he had them kidnapped, brought to North Korea, and forced to act in the movie. I wish I was an all powerful dictator! Mike as dictator: "Macho Man, you are coming out of retirement and reforming the Megapowers!" Macho Man "Ohhhhh Yeah, I do as you say GREAT LEADER MIKE YEAH!!! DIG IT!!!" --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:22:37 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] roundhouse kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray said: >I believe it was an article in JAMA, shortly after it first hit the stands... Claimed that the roundhouse kick was invented by mistake during a tournament when someone went to throw a front kick, tried to change it up and it ended in a roundhouse-ish type technique.< I don't remember that article. Who was the author? They are certainly incorrect. I have a photo of a jujutsu man in 1905 executing a very nice roundhouse kick, and I can find the same thing in European self-defense manuals from the 1600s. John Wallace wrotea bout t'aekkyeon: >isn't it true that points are scored in the game by kicking the opponent's topknot? When I studied it, you got a point for kicking someone in the head, a point for sweeping, and a point for throwing. Nobody had topknots, even though this was ages ago! As for Korean preferences, Peter Hyun's autobiographies mention that it is the SOUTH Koreans who love to kick (and trip) and that the North Koreans traditionally specialized in head butting. FWIW Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:44:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] High Kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I think it's more a case of the restrictive nature of many of our "traditional" martial sporting events. Look at American Full-Contact, karate point sparring, WTF sparring format, etc. All of them have historically treated "kicking below the belt" as the unholiest of all sins...strictly against the rules. If you restrict my target options to the high line...guess where all of my kicks are going. I don't think it's a matter of being impressive to the judges as much as it is the natural outgrowth of the rules. In football, the surest way to bring someone down is to grab them by the face mask. But, the rules don't allow this so you have to rely on less "efficient" methods. Same thing goes in a fight (at least a full-contact one). One of the most efficient places to kick someone is in the leg...it's relatively hard to stop and affects his mobility. But since you say I can only kick above the belt...guess what I'm going to do. Now look at martial sports that don't treat low kicking as such a taboo...Muay Thai and NHB competition come to mind. Here the low kick rules the day, and it's no small irony that I've seen FAR more head kick KO's in Muay Thai and NHB than I've witnessed in the ton of other contact formats that I've watched that actually promote head kicking by restricting the low line (American Full Contact, Olympic TKD, etc.). This is, of course, because the low kick tends to set-up the high kick. If I know that you're always going for my head...it's harder to set me up. Just my 2 cents. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:17:57 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_"RULES=3F!=3F---_In_a_KNIFE__FIGHT=3F!=3F_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear John: ".....Never having actually researched Taekkyon, I'm talking out of my hat at the moment, but isn't it true that points are scored in the game by kicking the opponent's topknot? Perhaps that's where Korean styles' cultural preference for high kicks came from......." I entitled my post the way I did because that confrontation between Paul Newman ("Butch Cassidy") and one of his henchmen left an indelible impression on me where this subject is concerned. I am pretty sure that folks in Korea would probably have had a similar response at a Taek Kyon bout. I just never got the impression there were hard-and-fast rules as such. Generally the intent was to knockdown the opponent, but I have also heard it said that kicking the opponents top-knot was a way of accruing points very quickly. I would also guess that since a goal of the bout might be knocking down the opponent it would be reasonable to assume that sweeps, trips and shin-kicks could easily develop into full-contact bouts a'la Muay Thai. I'm not sure about the full-contact thing. The Yi dynasty is said to have outlawed Soo-Bahk contests in the 14th century because folks were betting wives, daughters and property on the out-comes. Punishment was said to have been 100 strokes with a paddle.(Hhhhmmmm. Sounds like my dad on an average day. :-) ) Getting back to the RH kick for a minute. Bear with me for a moment while I suggest that forms/kata/hyung are representational of the arts to which they belong. Saying that, I would think that if the RH kick was part and parcel of Okinawa-te or Karate one would have found this technique in the Pinan/Pyong Ahn forms or even CHINTO or KUSHAN-KU (I'm not sure what the Korean titles for these are.) The modern TKD and TSD hyung seem to use the technique quite freely along with the Sidekick--- which, of course, IS represented quite well in older forms. Now, I am given to understand that Japanese Maritime and trading influences went all the way to Thailand and there may even be a historical precedence for the intervention of Samurai warriors in a local Thai dispute with one of its neighbors. Is it possible that Muay Thai as a martial tradition might have pre-dated such a visit in that aspects of the art of Thai boxing might have found their way back to Japan. The problem that I have is that while most people would agree to the Chinese influence on the Japanese art of Kempo I can't find anything to support the use of the RH kick by the Kempo practitioners prior to WW II. Anybody? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:10:51 -0400 From: Beungood@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Teaching style Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 5/21/2003 11:50:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > My evil twin would probably be tempted to put in a showing at Appleton just > to be able to critique the teaching style and material. However, unlike as > in the case of GM Ji, I suspect that I am on firmer ground > anticipating I don't understand what you mean by this stement, can you clarify it? Jack --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] roundhouse kicks To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Ray said: > >I believe it was an article in JAMA, shortly after it > first hit the stands... Claimed that the roundhouse > kick was invented by mistake during a tournament when > someone went to throw a front kick, tried to change it > up and it ended in a roundhouse-ish type technique.< > > I don't remember that article. Who was the author? I did a quick look thru the first N issues of the mag, but no luck. I can picture the photo that was in the article, but can't recall the author or even the topic of the article. The mind is a horrible thing to waste... :) > They are certainly incorrect. Could very well be. But a couple more thoughts on the RH. Part of the problem may be the "we have that, too" syndrome that frequently enters into things. You see a technique that is a bit different, perhaps more effective than the ones you've been doing and it quickly becomes yours and a part of your style. Sometimes this occurs honestly and sometimes not. e.g. this might be the case w/i Taekkyon. Seems like the RH-type kicks I usually see there are more swing kicks, less use of the knee. Yet once a karate-type RH motion made it to the Korean mainland it was -probably- quickly integrated into the syllabus of Taekkyon kicks. ??? And a thought on the kata/forms and kicks issue... If, and this is a big if, Karate was really a standup grappling art instead of a kick/punch art -and- the kata were really ways to break and lock joints as well as roadmaps to the vital points on the body, then the kata become less a way to practice kicking an punching a more a way to review basic motion and movement as well as review the location of the body's pressure points. Thus the various percussive techniques might have been less developed (e.g. fewer types of kicks) 100 years ago. At least in the Karate arts... ??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Teaching style To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > My evil twin would probably be tempted to put in a showing at Appleton just > > to be able to critique the teaching style and material. However, unlike as > > in the case of GM Ji, I suspect that I am on firmer ground anticipating > > I don't understand what you mean by this stement, can you clarify it? Please, lets not go down that rat hole again. Bruce seems to feel that Gm Ji isn't a good instructor. From what I can tell he is pretty much alone in that feeling. And I know from personal experience that Gm Ji has the best Hapkido technique that I have EVER witnessed, whether in person, on videotape, whatever. He is also a damn good instructor, and one that is highly accessible... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] High Kicks To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Never having actually researched Taekkyon, I'm talking out of my hat at the > moment, but isn't it true that points are scored in the game by kicking the > opponent's topknot? Perhaps that's where Korean styles' cultural preference > for high kicks came from... Yep, I believe you've hit upon it, or part of it. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:54:43 -0400 From: Robert Demers To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] A secret kick... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I belong to a WTF sactioned TKD school and just received my black belt in February. For my second Dan my master tells me I need to do a secret kick. I've been searching for what this could be but so far have been unsuccessful. Does anyone know what this could be or maybe give a hint or a direction to go in to find the answer? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest