Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 17:29:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #227 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Rep Stress Injury (Charles Richards) 2. RE: RE: Secret kick (Wallace, John) 3. Re: hamstring injuries (Chris Holmes) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=CB=3A_Repetitive_Stress_Syndrome?= (Farral, Kim) 5. Re: repetitive stress syndrome (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 6. Re: Hamstring Injuries (Pat Corbett) 7. Honesty (Burdick, Dakin R) 8. Kids and HKD (Brian Beach) 9. Bong Soo Han (Brian Beach) 10. Young kids in HKD or Jujitsu (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 11. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Encountered_a_New_Term.....?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 12. Korean Karate (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 13. father of American karate (freddie bishop) 14. RE:the Secret Kick.... (Tony Preston) 15. Re: A secret kick... (Robert Demers) 16. Re:Hamstring Injuries (Robert Demers) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:22:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rep Stress Injury Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Welcome to the list Rain! Great to have some more Tang Soo Do folks on the list. Here are my suggestions: 1. Give your partner the other hand/wrist to practice on. 2. Look deep into the ergonomics of your work station. 3. Consider a chiropractor that specializes in atheletes AND does extremity adjustments. 4. If normal wrist strengthening techniques don't help look into getting tessted for deggenerative bone disease. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- After training in self defenses extensively this evening, I resolved to ask a question of this group. I have a horrible case of repetitive stress syndrome in my (dominant) right hand. It is not carpel tunnel - all tests, electroshocks, probes, etc. have proven this - so surgery won't help. The more I practice self defenses the sharper the pain in my right hand becomes. I'm handicapped doing simple things; tonight, when pulling a can from a supermarket shelf, the searing pain crumpled my hand. Also, my grip is often weakened when I practice, leaving me with a sense that my technique is rather impractical. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Secret kick Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:17:13 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Isn't it in Florida? I heard that at a seminar I went to a while back... -JW (smartass) -----Original Message----- From: Farral, Kim [mailto:Kim.Farral@itt.com] Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 8:16 AM To: 'Dojang' Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Secret kick In order to learn the Secret kick...You must Climb the "Mountain of Knowledge" and seek out the "Grand Master Hermit"...Only He can provide the Wisdom necessary to Learn the "Secret Kick"...first you must discover the Location of the "Mountain of Knowledge" on your own... Pil Seung! The One and Only "Tink" Kim G. Farral 5th Dan TKD ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Chris Holmes" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 12:34:24 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: hamstring injuries Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir I have injured my hamstring a couple of times in the 8 or so years I've been training. The first injury was while I was taking Tang Soo Do about 6 1/2-7 1/2 years ago. I was young, stupid and stubborn and keep trying to train and kick. It took close to a year to heal. The last time was about 5 months ago while I demonstrated a front split without warming up. I put as little as possible amount of stress or strain on my leg. It took about 8-10 weeks to heal. My advise would be to walk through your hyungs and self defense sets but do not kick with either leg. Sometimes the hamstring will be flexed on the supporting leg when you kick. Good luck Chris Holmes _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Farral, Kim" To: 'Dojang' Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 12:54:53 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=CB=3A_Repetitive_Stress_Syndrome?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Pil Seung! I have Carpal Tunnel in both wrists...about 8 months ago I had corrective surgery on my left hand...it took a few months before I could fully use it properly and kept it somewhat protected while teaching and training...I have no problems with it now...the surgery took almost a whole 30 minutes to complete...that includes the prep time...actually surgery was about 15 minutes...Prior to the surgery I was receiving injections into each wrist which worked well for about 3 months...My right hand is not as bad as my left was and I still get the injections about every 4 months...but I will eventually need surgery on it as well...I also wear the splints during sleep which has helped significantly as the hand position during sleep complicates the problem and adds pressure to the nerve... See your doctor about having the proper tests performed to find out the extent of the damage and get their recommendations...the splints are a great aide and the injections work well for a good period of time depending on the severity of the problem... Pil Seung! The One and Only "Tink" Kim G. Farral 5th Dan TKD ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:18:07 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: repetitive stress syndrome Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net someone mentioned wrist/lower arm exercises/stretches. two good ones for you: 1. providing your own resistance, trace the ABC's in capital letters with your hand, going to the extreme on the size of the letters. bend at the wrist, moving the hand only, not moving your upper arm/shoulder. 2. hold right arm out in front of you, turn it over so palm is facing up. using left hand and use it to push palm and fingers down on right hand so that fingers are pointing towards the ground. stretching arm will nearly lock at elbow. great stretch for wrist and lower arm. good luck! melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:19:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Pat Corbett Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hamstring Injuries To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Joe I also had pulled my hamstring and tore some tendons on my right knee in March. I had gone to my doctor and he sent me to a physical therapist, who gave me a number of exercises to do. The biggest thing was when I started back, not to try to do as much as I had before. Just because you feel ok, you muscle is still not healed. The PT guy said it could take up to 8 weeks before I got to 100%. I would suggest you either talk to you doctor or a physical therapist to get some exercises that can help in the healing of your hamstring. If you want some of the ones I had done, please let me know and I will try to write them up. ===== Pat Corbett Jr. Pleasant Gap, PA World Tang Soo Do Association __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:40:17 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Honesty Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, I see where you're going with honesty and attribution, but I think that the saner way is just not to worry about it too much. If someone asks, I think one should be able to tell them where you learned to do what your do, but one can go over the top with it too. After learning from a lot of people over the years, it can get to be too much. For example, I could say: "This is a front kick. Do it this way most of the time." Or I could say: "This is a front kick, a mae geri in Japanese, an ap ch'agi in Korean, jing tek in Cantonese, qian ti in Mandarin. Most of my technique comes from Mitsutoshi Yatsunami, who used to teach Kyokushin but now teaches Sabaki style. He taught me to use both legs. There was another guy from the Italian federation who did the same thing -- used to wear ballet shoes during practice. Boy, I wish I could remember his name, but that was back in '86. Of course, if you're just kicking the knee, then you don't have to make much of a differentiation between a thrust front kick and a snap kick (which I learned from Don Burns) but I find the thrust kick works best when you work on your hapkido sparring or when you're playing with one of the bagua guys. It counters some of the circular stuff, IF mixed with your own circular defenses. Joe Lewis showed me how to work the zones when using the kick, like this. But of course you need to keep in mind Wing Chun leg trapping techniques when you are entering as well, so the whole thing is a bit more complex than you might think. Anyways, I prefer you do it like this most of the time, ok?" >As another example, a friend over in the Eskrima forum has a good way of describing how to keep your left hand up in a fight. He terms it "staying on the phone". Think about it... Not bad, but I still prefer "comb the hair" >"Still tying to master the Dakin splat" Ray, you're gonna have to put on a bunch of weight for that! Stay skinny bud! Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 15:16:34 -0400 From: Brian Beach To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Kids and HKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net on 5/22/03 12:49 PM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net at the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: I can only speak to the Hapkido side of it. It seems to be fine for kids. Even the soft side is a appropriate. The way it is approached at our dojang is the softer side is taught looser (i.e. the joint isn't pushed to failure rather used as leverage to a fall. The circle is much broader.) On a similar note - I am developing a theory (just the seed so far, not much to base it on except a few observations) that punching and kicking and especially tournament techniques are more detrimental to the physiological development of children than soft techniques. IMHO k&p approach (ie TKD tournament) teaches kids to be overly aggressive. The linear aspect of techniques teaches force against force. Usually the bigger kid is victorious. I think that it could lead to a "might makes right" attitude if the "DO" part of the art is not seriously stressed. I think children would be better served with a sport/art such as judo/yudo. It teaches the competition aspect with a respect for their opponent. It has the added benefit of teaching patience, blending and keeping your center (tanjun/hara). Also in the self defense aspect - the fights I remember as a child often ended up as a wrestling match or with one getting the other in a head lock until someone gave up or it was broken up. I would also rather have a child have the wind knocked out of them then a bloody nose/lip or black eye etc. It's a little easier to over come and move on with out the visual reminder of defeat. Just a thought, Brian > Jeremy said "I know this has been discussed before, but I was > wondering about the advantages and disadvantages about > teaching young kids (5-10) HKD or Jujitsu? Thanks." --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 15:22:53 -0400 From: Brian Beach To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Bong Soo Han Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bong Soo Han is on the cover and lead article / interview of "Martial Art Magazine - The Voice of Traditional Martial Arts" July 2003 ed. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 15:54:59 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Young kids in HKD or Jujitsu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeremy, I am not sure I understand your question. We teach children the same hapkido we teach the adults. So the advantages of teaching children would be the same as teaching adults hapkido. There are no disadvantages about teaching hapkido. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:42:18 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Encountered_a_New_Term.....?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: I had a rather heartfelt discussion with a fellow Hapkido person a couple of weeks ago. The precipitating issue probably isn't important, but what came up in the course of the exchange was a spoken concern on the part of my peer that I was visiting his school with the intention of "colonizing". Most of you already know the strong feelings I have about the various uses and abuses of organizations, and quite a few of you know this has caused me to accept individuals for instruction who have been pretty badly handled by various managers and organizations. That said, I was particularly curious about the use of this term in characterizing me, especially by someone who could reasonable be expected to know me better than that. Now, before you start tuning-up on me for being needlessly obtuse, let me say that I have a pretty good idea of what my peer meant. If I had to make a guess I would say that he was concerned with me attempting to bring his class or school under some special influence of my own or to press him to defer to me as his Hapkido senior. As far as I know neither was the case, but the suspicion, once verbalized, was enough for me to immediately become indifferent to any further connection which effectively ends a relationship of fair length. OK, so thats the sad story. Heres' the question. Who else has run into this sort of issue/suspicion? What was your response to the situation? Did the response produce a good outcome? Do folks view this as a more specific, personality-driven issue, or do some people see it as the sort of endemic illness in KMA that keeps us from working together better? The floor is now open. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:12:54 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Karate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would not say that is what "everyone was doing", but it explains allot. When I left grad school (Texas A&M) and moved to Galveston in the mid 80's, all of the PKA guys in Galveston County were associated with Jhoon Rhee. These were NOT KMA stylists (ITF was the dominant TKD affiliation in Houston as several of the General's direct students moved to the NW side in the early-mid 70's, one of them was my first teacher). One of schools I visited in Galveston County in the mid 80's had Rhee on audio tape AS the warm up section of class. Very strange. In addition, they charged admission to visitors during BB testing when Rhee was there. Just because there are Koreans who practice karate, that has nothing to do with the KMA and it is still not the CJKMA. IMHO. It was really sort of sad, when I visited one of these Rhee schools, I introduced myself as a hapkido 3rd dan (my rank at that time) and I was asked to teach a hapkido class. It turns out, they had a hapkido class once a week. After the senior student led the warm-ups from the audio tape, the hapkido instructor admitted to me that he held NO rank in hapkido and that he had only been to a few hapkido seminars. It was a VERY strange experience. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 15:01:09 -0700 (PDT) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] father of American karate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Some folks who were associated with Mr. Trias' style, Shorei Ryu karate, now question the history that was presented by Mr. Trias regarding "his" style. It seems nobody can find any evidence of a Mr. Tung Gee Hsing. There are a lot of other questionable details about Mr. Trias and His karate style. To call it Okinawan, IMHO, is in error. From my research, Mr. Trias was a great politician and businessman. As involved as he was with karate, I am surprised nobody has come out with a home movie displaying Mr. Trias' skills. Fred __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 18:10:30 -0500 From: Tony Preston To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:the Secret Kick.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ahhhh grasshopper, you ask the question that only you can answer... Best regards. Tony Preston Cancer is Curable, Find out why: Visit http://www.cellremoval.com sign up for the mailing list protocel_support-subscribe@topica.com apreston@comcast.net 2003-05-22 --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:05:35 -0400 From: Robert Demers To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: A secret kick... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm new to the forum here and this request was my first post. Thank you all for the replies though I still search for my answer. When I find it I will tell though because I cannot keep a secret :) --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:38:15 -0400 From: Robert Demers To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Hamstring Injuries Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 08:05:51 -0400 > From: webmasterJoe@estradatkd.com > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Hey Everyone, > > About six weeks ago, I tore my left hamstring (not extremely bad tear, but > bad enough to cause it to bleed (big black & blue) and keep me from training > for 2 to 3 weeks). Last night I was training and I suspect that I reinjured > it. I felt it snap, but this time in a different place than the first. > Today it hurts, but not nearly as bad as 6 weeks ago. Does anyone have > any suggestions on what I should do to prevent this from happening again? > Any excersizes or techniques I should consider to get it back to 100%? > Should I continue to train (minimally)? I'd like it to be healed for my > July 12 2nd Dan Promotion. Any advice is greatly appreciated. > > -Joe Giarratano > > Ciao > > -- __--__-- > Hey Joe, Sorry to hear about your injury. Last fall the same injury happened to me in TKD class. Left leg right above the knee the hamstrings pulled and the back of my leg turned all black and blue. It happened while doing splits and stretching out my legs. They were real tight because I was also 12 weeks into an 18 week marathon training program. So the injury put me into dire straights. I opted to finish the marathon training and just teach TKD without participating in the excercise and stretching. I ran through the pain and was recovered from the injury for the race. I still question my sanity but I believe the running helped my leg heal faster. After the marathon, I gave up on running for awhile and was able to slowly get stretched out again. It took about 6 weeks of slow progressive stretching. I'm back to running and TKD but I'm real careful because running makes your legs real tight which sets you up for the hamstring tear if you're not careful. I don't feel strong enough about it to tell you to run to help the healing but I certainly think you have to stop stretching and kicking for awhile until your leg heals. I wish you well, Bob --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest