>From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #244 - 9 msgs >Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 03:01:50 -0700 > >Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to > the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net > >You can reach the person managing the list at > the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." > > ><<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> > >Serving the Internet since June 1994. >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. >1400 members. > >See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine >for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com > >Pil Seung! > >Today's Topics: > > 1. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Signs_of_growth_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) > 2. Once more with clarity (A. Boyd) > 3. Re; Anthony Boyd on instinctiveness (George Peters) > 4. A book about a year in Pyongyang (fwd) (Ray Terry) > 5. Congrats to Mark (Debra Dunn) > 6. Fred's concerns (Debra Dunn) > 7. RE: back stance (Wallace, John) > 8. Wisconsin Experience (Hapkido Self Defense Center) > 9. Insurance Recommendations (Miguel) > >--__--__-- > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:42:35 -0500 (CDT) >From: >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Signs_of_growth_?= >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Dear Anthony: > >".....Is there a point in training where things really start to gel and >the student begins to apply things on a more instinctive level? > If you have observed something like this, what would you say the value is >as compared to the specifically drilled responses of an art? Are there any >negative aspects to this?....." > >I would think that this experience is the hope and prayer of every teacher >for their students. As I tell my students so often, "my job is to work my >way out of a job." In other words, there should be a time when the student >no longer needs me to hold their hand, show them where they are making >their mistakes and correct them. What you describe is a sure sign that the >student has begun to internalize the material and "make it their own." > >There are two problems with this metamorphosis. One is on the part of the >teacher. > >Many of our modern MA schools are commercial and depend on student >engagement to keep the doors open. Not a few teachers see this as >justifying the students' dependence on the teacher for additional truths. I >think many people have had teachers who have held back on material "until >the student is ready." If the student decides to stick around because they >freely choose to, well thats one thing. But for a teacher to manipulate >things so that the student feels uncomfortable leaving, well, thats very >different. Sad to say, I have known teachers who felt easily threatened by >students who began to show the first signs of intuitive execution in their >technique you describe. > >The other problem is that this insight you describe does not come all at >once. A student who begins to experience the sort of intuitive response you >mention may, at first recognition of the experience for what it is, may >believe they are farther evolved than they really are. While the initial >experience can be very powerful, the fact is that such internalization must >mature with additional time. I think of it a bit like wine that way. You >can drink a young wine and its "OK", but greater satisfaction awaits the >person who will wait and let the wine mature into its full, true >character. FWIW. > >Best Wishes, > >Bruce > >--__--__-- > >Message: 2 >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 01:26:03 -0400 (EDT) >From: "A. Boyd" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Once more with clarity >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I posted a question yesterday but my typing left something to be desired >and half of the >first sentence was missing in the final version. I guess that's the price I >pay for not >reading it over before hitting send. > What I asked about was that special difference between a "natural >response" based on >years of training and an actual drilled response. I am having quite a bit >of trouble >expressing my question in words so please bear with me. > Have you ever noticed that sometimes students will do something >instinctively which >they have never been taught yet still use effectively - sort of a >distillation of all the >different practice they have done over the years? To use forms practice for >example, our >earliest forms develop a flow and distinction where several once separate >techniques >blend into combinations and then one day, almost magically, become one >action. Know what >I mean? > My question, badly formed as it is, is about that process and your >thoughts about where >this phenomena sits in the grand scheme of things. What are the real >benefits of this and >what are the drawbacks? > >===== >Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher > www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > >--__--__-- > >Message: 3 >From: "George Peters" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 02:26:38 -0400 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re; Anthony Boyd on instinctiveness >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Good Sir: > I have personally always been taught to study all I see and and when >I >have developed a level of proficiency and understanding of these things to >adapt and adopt these techniques. > As to instinctive use of techniques a student progresses through >definite stages of development. I have been taught and also have observed >students begin with "concentration"(chung shin), and on the more advanced >level practice with "open mind", meaning to act not think. This is one of >the goals of the many hours of hard work and practice in the Dojang. > From my own perspective, Bruce Lee discussed this in a way most >western >people easily understand. May I suggest his writings to you? > I hope that I have been of some service to you. > Respectfully, > George Peters > >_________________________________________________________________ >Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > >--__--__-- > >Message: 4 >From: Ray Terry >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:28:17 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: [The_Dojang] A book about a year in Pyongyang (fwd) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Forwarded message: > > >A. Please may I draw your attention to what I believe is >a unique resource on North Korea, now at last available. > >This is a book by the late Andrew Holloway, who lived for >a year in Pyongyang in the late 1980s. Despite the lapse of time, >I believe his perspective and insights remain fresh and important. > >I am not aware of any similar primary source of this kind in English. >(Erik Cornell's recently published North Korea under Communism >[RoutledgeCurzon, 2002] is only partly autobiographical, covering a >period even longer ago [1975-77]). > >I introduce Andrew's book at: http://www.aidanfc.net/pyongyang.html >The book itself begins at: >http://www.aidanfc.net/a_year_in_pyongyang_1.html > >The rest of my website - constructed by Andrew's son Ross, to whom >eternal thanks for his patience - may, I fear, be of less interest to this >audience: >driven as it is, regrettably, more by the dictates of commerce than >scholarship. >But it has some rants, ruminations, and even limericks (not Korea-related). > > >B. May I also mention a couple of other newer writings, which Listmembers >might not otherwise run across: > >1. The latest of five papers I have written for WriteNet for the UN High >Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) has just been posted at: >http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rsd?search=coi&source=WRITENET >(This is an index; then click on the date [1 May 2003]). This paper is >in fact more about the current North Korea nuclear crisis in general, >than refugee issues per se. > >2. A similar but briefer essay on the North Korean question is due to >appear in the July issue of Prospect. For those who don't know it, this >is a monthly mag which styles itself as "Britain's Intelligent >Conversation". >A bit like Encounter of old, but without the CIA connection... > >Best wishes >Aidan FC > >AIDAN FOSTER-CARTER >Honorary Senior Research Fellow in Sociology & Modern Korea, Leeds >University >17 Birklands Road, Shipley, West Yorkshire, BD18 3BY, UK > >--__--__-- > >Message: 5 >From: "Debra Dunn" >To: >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:45:40 -0500 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Congrats to Mark >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Mark, > >Congratulations to you and your wife on your new family memeber! > >Danny Dunn > >--__--__-- > >Message: 6 >From: "Debra Dunn" >To: >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:02:25 -0500 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Fred's concerns >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Fred, > >I no longer claim any affiliation with tkd, but I can't think of any >justifiable reason I would ever teach any fighting stance, including back >stance with a locked, or even straight front leg. Did you actually hear >the >instructor teach this in class and say it on more than one occasion? If >not, could be a mistake or misunderstanding. I know from your many posts, >you are very concerned about and interested in your son's training. It may >be time to consider one of two options. First, trust that the school you >have chosen and its instructors are good ones and see where it takes your >son. Second, and I think you indicated that you hold dan rank in tkd some >time ago, if you don't see the ultimate products of the school as BB's with >a good foundation and good techniques, then find another place for your son >to train. > >Danny Dunn > > > My sons' instructor is teaching him to do a back > > stance with the lead leg straight and locked at the > > knee! What is he thinking? BTW my son passed his > > yellow belt test on Sunday, YEAH! > > > > Fred > >--__--__-- > >Message: 7 >From: "Wallace, John" >To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" > >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] back stance >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:09:50 -0700 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Assuming the instructor is competent, I would guess that he's trying to get >your son to weight his stance properly. By locking the lead leg, you'd >need >to bend the rear knee and let more weight settle there. I can't say I >agree >with the method though - it'd kill mobility and certainly endangers the >lead >leg... > >John W. > >-----Original Message----- >From: freddie bishop [mailto:mauler681@yahoo.com] >Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 6:36 PM >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] back stance > > My sons' instructor is teaching him to do a back >stance with the lead leg straight and locked at the >knee! What is he thinking? BTW my son passed his >yellow belt test on Sunday, YEAH! > > Fred > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >http://calendar.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > >--__--__-- > >Message: 8 >From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" >To: >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:12:48 -0400 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Wisconsin Experience >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >That is a outstanding group of M.D.s/Black Belts that Master West has. They >spend a great deal of time at each major get together in Jackson fixing >problems. They kept my knee together in Korea and everyone healthy, and Dr. >Tao works on my shoulder whenever I see her. I can't find Dr.'s here in >Cincinnati that can or will do what she can, at all! But then again, she is >the chief of staff of orthopedic surgery at the teaching hospital. She even >did our negotiations at the jade factory in Beijing. Jere R. Hilland >www.hapkidoselfdefense.com > ><<"medical contingent" (aka: "doctors without borders"). A special "thank >you" >goes out to Dr. Tao who was kind enough to fine-tune my partners' choking >technique---- and then kindly replaced my eyeballs when they popped-out of >my skull.>>> > >--__--__-- > >Message: 9 >From: "Miguel" >To: >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:32:51 -0400 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Insurance Recommendations >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >< Can anyone recommend insurance options for small clubs or >less than 20 people? > > >Jason, > >Look in just about any MA magazine. The best you will be able to do is >about $450/year. There are several agents that advertise but I assume that >there are really only a couple of companies that underwrite sports >coverages. > >Miguel >http://garciatkd.com >[if you can't beat your computer at chess. try kickboxing] > > >--__--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >http://the-dojang.net > >It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. >US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 >719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org > >Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com > >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com >Standard disclaimers apply. >Remember 9-11! > > >End of The_Dojang Digest