Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:38:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #265 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: contract cancellation (Mark Seidel) 2. Belts and Trim (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 3. Re: Uniform (Beungood@aol.com) 4. RE: And TKD stylists wonder (Kirk Lawson) 5. Wallace was also full contact champ (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 6. A new low (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Double_Check_Yourself?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Whine_of_the_Month_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. Competition (Charles Richards) 10. Re: uniform question (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 11. Re: uniform question (ChunjiDo@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:54:11 -0400 From: Mark Seidel Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] contract cancellation To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It's called "future services"; you can't bill for services not yet rendered. Master Mark Seidel The Midtown Academy Martial Arts Program Special Needs and exceptional Child Program USTU/WTF affiliated www.midtownacademy.org -----Original Message----- From: Burdick, Dakin R [mailto:burdickd@indiana.edu] Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 10:26 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] contract cancellation > i want to change schools, but unfortunately i'm in the middle of a contract and i cant just leave... I seem to recall that the US has a law about fitness center contracts that said that one could not be held to the whole contract. Isn't there a buy-out option on this contract? Anyone else remember this law (or judgement)? And actually remember the name? Thanks, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:07:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Belts and Trim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles and Everyone Else Interested, I wear the black trimmed dobahk top. My org also dictates flag patches and assiciation patch. But even this is only required at official events. I know some others who wear all sorts of colors in their own dojangs. For me, I like things simple and I like the way the black trimmed uniforms look. And I think that if I am going to tell someone that they have to do something, like wear a certain color or a certain trim or patches, then I should set the example. So I always wear black trimmed white uniform with the appropriate patches. And my students all wear their official dobahks all the time. Before I joined WTSDA I also wore white, black, blue and gray dobahks and lots of times mixed colors. I don't see anything wrong with it. After all, it's the training and not the uniform. Ray, I knew there was a reason I didn't study Kempo! I will not wear a yellow, red or purple uniform for anyone for any reason. As for Dee, I wear both a plain black belt and my black belt with the central red stripe. I like the 2.5 inch wide belts better. I am not sure how you would assess which is the most traditional. Same is true with Midnight Blue. I also like the room for improvement philosophy. Ray, I suspect there is more truth in your post about differentiation than most would like to admit. But I guess in the end, I am more comfortable with black than blue because I am more familiar. As for more or less confusing, I think that is open to interpretation. As it is, black with a central red stripe can be anywhere from 4th to 7th dan. Some as does WTSDA uses 2 central red stripes for 6th and 7th dan. By the way Charles, Strong Sah Bum Nim is being promoted to 7th dan this year. But I have seen just about every possible configuration except the red, white and blue that someone mentioned last week. Using stripes also gets confusing past whats easily counted at a glance, about 3. The only ones who really need to know anything in most cases are the students, and they presumably already know who the instructor is, even if he is not wearing a dobahk. As for what is more traditional, I guess it could be argued either way. Obviously, the central red stripes came about in the early sixties (?). So before that I think the standard was plain black. If you don't have a KJN or Sunim SBN telling you what they want, then I don't see a difference. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.mojakwan.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:12:57 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Uniform Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/16/03 2:56:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Thanks for the resource. Does it follow that these uniforms are intended > more for the Sin Moo Hapkido people or is this an attempt to develop an > alternative to the more generally accepted uniform of Japanese derivation? > Im not sure Bruce, I never thought of it in that way. I have seen the leg tied dobuks on occasion in Korea and have liked them the look and way they feel. With the KHF type uniform I didnt like the material as it was too thin and the legs much ,much too long neccesitating rolling the waist band up to aviod the legs rounding the ankles and tripping the kicker, which I found always happened wh3en I wore them. The material wasnt very high quality for the cost of the uniform and wore out quickly. The sin moo uniform material is just heavy enough to be durable, cool, and stay offf your feet! Jack --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:09:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] And TKD stylists wonder Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Stovall, Craig" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:11:57 -0500 > Subject: [The_Dojang] And TKD stylists wonder... > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > ...why our art has almost ZERO respect nowadays in the larger > martial arts [snip] > I think I just saw the last shred of credibility go flying > away in the wind. > For all my TKD brothers and sisters out there who are still > practicing the > art with a little dignity and respect...you have my > condolences. You are a rapidly dying minority. A brief discussion on why so many non-TKD (Tae Kwon Do) Martial Artists say: TKD Sucks. - http://www.dayton.net/~lawson/bashtkd.html This page is a webbing of a post I made to the usenet newsgroup rec.martial-arts (RMA) and is RMA centric. It's not spell checked and the grammar is atrocious. However, it does give some insight into why TKD gets bashed so often by non-TKD stylists. Since I'm subscribed to the DIGEST version, replying is difficult. I expect this to generate a large number of "yeah buts" and the like. I don't care. This isn't intended to bash, harsh, or denigrate anyone. It's intent is informational. This is how TKD is often viewed and why, not necessarily how it actually is for you individually. Peace favor your sword --- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:44:04 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Wallace was also full contact champ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Uhhh, Dakin, You are right that Wallace was a point champ and there was significant poo pooing that full contact would be the end of his career. But I believe that he retired undefeated in full contact, showing that a high kicker with limited techniques (5) could fight and win in full contact. Danny Dunn <<<<<< And Bill's kicking is much more useful in point fighting than in full-contact.>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:04:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] A new low Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig, Wow! A new low for tkd. Hurts all Korean Arts and all Martial Arts. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<<<...why our art has almost ZERO respect nowadays in the larger martial arts community. For your reading enjoyment, I give you 3 & 5 year old black belts. http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=54704 I think I just saw the last shred of credibility go flying away in the wind. For all my TKD brothers and sisters out there who are still practicing the art with a little dignity and respect...you have my condolences. You are a rapidly dying minority.>>>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:46:05 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Double_Check_Yourself?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Michael: ".....I am trying to put together a curriculum that will allow students like this to continue their training without putting to much stress on their knees and to keep them in the same intense workout level that they are a custom to....." I have mentioned this before and am doing so again only because you mentioned folks of a relatively older age. Age-mates to me and older will readily understand what I am about to say. I hear a lot of talk about knee problems and I won't for a minute pretend I know better whats going on where you are. However, Sciatic nerve problems, especially secondary to disk problems in the lower back often send referred pain, and the effect on the nerve often suggests to the individual that they are having "knee" or "lower ham-string" problems when the trouble is, in fact, in their lower back. Again, I mention this only because you mentioned folks who are forty-ish. If they were younger I would probably go with the knee problem. There are a couple of books out on the market that provide for a sort of self-check, but I think it would be foolish not to have a professional such as certified atletic trainer, or better, an orthopeadic specialist give their opinion. That said, in EITHER case I would go with a significant reduction in repetitions. I never really understood the need to do countless reps when folks I have been around seem to progress better with fewer albeit more studied, more deliberate repetitions (but thats just me). FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:14:56 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Whine_of_the_Month_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry, Folks, but I just checked my watch and find I have not whined about anything in over 10 or 15 minutes. If anyone has checked-out the latest copy of TKD TIMES they will find a blurb about the latest Pelligrini-sponsored seminar which, in this case presented GM In Sun Seo. Nothing wrong with that, and the item in the TIMES was about a quarter-page including a nice photo of the attendees. So then I turn a page or two and up in the corner are four lines about the latest Hapkido Internationale down in Jackson. So, whats my bitch? Plain and simple it comes down to a simple matter of information, or what the commercial folks would call "advertising". Lets face it, folks, just about everybody here knows what I think about Hackworth, Pelligrini and people of that ilk. OK, fine, we don't have to getting into a pissing contest about what they do and who they do it to. However, I will guarentee you that if commercial folks among us are doing something they make sure that every body this side of Singapore know about it. Hackworth is on a Hapkido Net talking about up-coming tournaments allowing finger-locks. Then there is another blurb about some new book coming out with sword material (gawd only knows where that comes from). Like I said, the issue is not what he is doing, but rather that he makes sure he's got peoples attention. Most of us know that its not worth our time to mess with what he has to offer, but what are we doing to make sure that members of the KMA community are hearing about quality experiences. The Internationale is a premier event where folks can get together, meet and greet, expand their awareness of KMA and a whole lot more. I would have thought USKMAA members would have had material organized well in advance just waiting to fill-in last minute details. How about the NKMAA? You know Rudy has seminars in Houston and then in Chicago coming up? Do the folks in Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Illinois all know that they can spend 4 hours with someone who actually CAN do what he is talking about? I would hope to heck that at least members of those schools in Houston and Chicago would already have made arrangements with TKD TIMES to publish blurbs on one (or both) events afterwards. Someone please tell me that people have at least done that much. Sometimes we ponder why the commercial interests are walking away with the KMA. Actually, it seems like all the commercial interests have to do is rely on the passivity of the rest of the KMA community. Seems like its enough for most folks to come to the event, pay their money and leave promotion to whoever is sponsoring the event. Whats up about that? I leave you now as I head out to the kitchen for a little bread and cheese to have with my whine. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:02:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Competition Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It kinda saddens me, because I know alot of kids get their ride home spoiled by mom or dad complaining about how they were robbed or how that judge was blind. Then we as black belts get to see that kid the next time, but with a little less respect coming from them or thier parents. This all comes with the territory. For once I would love to see a Dad say, Son, you took that whuppin pretty good, you can just work on that next class. But, we move on, we go to the next tournament. I can honestly say the black belt I was in 1999 and the black belt I am four years later is a drastic improvement, and I owe at least 50 percent of it to tournament competition. I stand by how I think competition improves students, especially ones you have had for a while. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Charlie, You are wise beyond your years. One of the nice things about AAU competition is the coach is in the ring, so normally before Dad and Mom get to color their little angel's reality I tell them how proud of them I am that they did XY and Z correctly, and that they have the courage and dignity to take that whuppin with honor, AND that when we get back to the dojang Master Richards will take time to help you with xy and z. I agree if the student has enough inner spirit to get up in front of 3-5 blackbelt (maybe even masters) judges and 100+ strangers/spectators and put on those funny white pajamas and do a form then they are much better than all those nintendo playing, desk jockeying couch potatoes out there ;-). Remember more people are more afraid of being publicly embarased than death so competing in a tournament is a major kyuck pa. Even though I don't make any of my students compete, I feel strongly that it's my job to provide opportunities for them to "break through." I would agree for any of your students that are competative and/or goal oriented, competition will only make them train with more intensity, be it to win again or win for the first time. Remember the trophy/medal is just an outward affirmation of you own personal inner growth (kinda like gup belts). And you thought you could ramble...going on to point versus OS sparring. I gotta agree with a lot of what was said. More people can do point and go to work the next day. Most any mom will let their child point spar, but always feels very concerned about OS contact level (hince the recent change in USTU youth rules). Again it goes back to one main philisophical difference. Do I pad the weapon, or the target. Here are some plusses I've observed in my brief experiment with OS. 1. The hitter has much more invested in controlling the accuracy and force of his strikes hand or foot. If you've ever roundkicked your instep into and elbow, or had your perfect blade foot hit and elbow instead of a hogu you know what I mean. Don't even talk about folding your wrist trying to punch someone hard enough to get a point. 2. You can learn about advanced techniques like rolling with blows to minimize the impact, and slipping to score with a stronger counter. I almost always loose a few points in point sparring because my style is to slip light attacks so I can body punch you. 3. The hittee must condition the body to take some contact, and must through his/her ring management dictate wear they will accept contact (like knife defenses). 4. You must learn to control distances and spatial relationships dynamically or you will end up on the wrong side of a back leg round kick. 5. Because you can be knocked out or doubled over, their is a greater seriousness to proper parying and evasion, which IMHO leads to a more focoused fighter. The biggest downside is that OS contact requires you to condition your body or it takes forever to recover from a match :-) IMHO all of these above points relate more to the preparations for reality/street fighting than point which is why I require my Red belt and up to be able to OS fight on their test. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:15:33 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: uniform question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I ask Rays' pardon for just a moment. Since you run a MA supply service, have you found resources that offer MA uniform away from most of the typical configurations? By this I mean, and going back to my earlier comment about GM Jis' hanbok/dobok, have you identified folks who could provide a kind of "working hanbok" that would tolerate regular, vigorous exercise?  As kind of a guide let me say that the magazine INSIDE KUNG-FU (Pacific Rim Publ) offers a "monks' uniform" which may, or may not, be intended for use when working out. Thoughts? Comments? BTW: I wasn't intending this to become a commercial discussion, Ray, as much as I am hoping to hear for Melinda on what she has found available through her connections. Thanks. Best Wishes, Bruce " hi bruce, in a word: kinda. most of the suppliers have the generic junk that everyone else has. for instance, right now, we're working to try and find some wushu/kungfu uniforms that arent just the crappy polyester stuff with frogs that everyone else has. i havent seen the hanboks and dont know who can get them. wish i did. i think they look good and would be more traditional for korean arts. on the shaolin stuff, there's some very nice uniforms we can get in saffron or blue gray, along with the traditional leg wraps, etc. this one is intended for work out use, from my understanding. if you need more info, lemme know. if you find out who can get the hanboks, please post the info. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 11 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:17:02 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: uniform question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net someone commented that it was big bear or sang moo sa who make gm ji's gray traditional dobak (not hanbok). it is big bear. take care, melinda :) Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest