Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:36:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #271 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Korean Media (A. Boyd) 2. Re: Pat Montini about falling (George Peters) 3. Danny Dunn on sparring multiple opponents (George Peters) 4. Belts for Dans (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 5. Re: New Dan Belts (K. Barends) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Big_Amen!!_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Re: nascar martial arts (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 8. Re: duct tape (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 9. re: All these belts... (Lasich, Mark D.) 10. Lesson in Humility (Morgan James) 11. Re: stars/stripes/tape/chevrons and other junk (Rulivin4hym@aol.com) 12. Sparring Multiple Partners and Changes Induced by Competition (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 13. Re: falling (Michael Whalen) 14. Re: Worn out Welcome (DPRYGA) 15. Re; Prayers needed (Manuel Maldonado) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:51:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Media Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Some of you may be aware of the storm of negative opinion which was stirred up by the terrible accident in Korea last June involving two middle school girls (Shin, Shim) and a US military vehicle on a backroad outside Uijongbu. Last Friday was the anniversary of the accident and memorial services were held by both local and foreigner alike. Of course, these memorials were seperate and foreigners, particularly visible Americans, were advised to stay well away from the locations where vigils were to be held. Not all the participants of these vigils and memorials were truly interested in remembering the lives which were cut short, preferring instead to use the tide of emotion to further their social and political goals. Often, usually it's Bruce's fault (ha ha), we end up talking about the availability of records and histories in Korea. I thik one thing these debates forget or overlook is the freedom North Americans have to print and say what they want. It is not so in other places and that has a dramatic effect on public opinion. In this specific case, the commonly repeated facts about the accident gave most readers the impression that a single vehicle (a tank no less) "crushed" the girls. The language was graphic and painted a striking image of blind power versus helplessness. The truth of what happened was not important or welcome in these early reports. Korea has a lot more freedom of the press than in previous generations but this is still a very heirarchical country and the average person *almost* seems to want to be told what to do and what to think. Our education plays a much larger role in how we behave then perhaps we want to admit as adults and in Korea's case, the bulk of schools focus on rote learning with no questions. Public opinion was created by what was printed in the papers and shown on the news. The facts became so clouded that it was almost like people were denying what was going on in front of them. Demands from apologies from US Army personnel would occur while footage of these same officers apologies was being shown on AFN. It was a very emotional time. There was a lot of fear this year that more violence and trouble might erupt. Due to early preparation things were basically uneventful. The media hasn't changed much. Emotional pleas about the vigils began the week before and the same telling deletions of fact were made. Worse, abuses by US soldiers continue to be highlighted while crimes against them are ignored - never printed. Last week, two US servicemen saved the life of a Korean citizen and no mention of this act was made in the local media that I have been able to find. The media is a willful participant in the anti-American sentiment that is gripping the peninsula. Now, to give this spiel its point, I guess I just want to share this situation with those on the list and perhaps give a moment of pause. Are we guilty of these sins of omission too? I have but to turn on CNN and I get the answer to that. The longer I stay in Korea and not in Canada I see more and more things about my home that I was too close and involved to notice before. It strikes me that many of the codes of behaviour I adhere to oppose just these sorts of abuses. Well, somewhere along the line I seem to have climbed onto a soapbox. I'll get down before I start to sermonize or worse, fall off. I've already wandered through three topics. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:25:40 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pat Montini about falling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir: When I have individuals or groups to teach new techniques that include sweeps, I have been taught to always precede this lesson or integrate the class on sweeps with teaching people to fall. Some gup members may complain or even think this is silly, but I'd rather see them feel silly learning to fall in every direction than ever risk being injured due to a lack of instruction. I guess that I'm saying that your instructor should feel obligated to teach this to you for safety reasons if no other. Perhaps he (or she) assumes you already know this. If you do not, never feel inhibited about asking questions. It is my hope that you really enjoy what you are learning. Tang Soo! Respectfully, George Peters _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:37:32 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Danny Dunn on sparring multiple opponents Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir: In our organization, anyone holding first dan and up is required to spar multple oponents when we re-certify every six months. We have special classes on this from time to time and Dan rank and up is expected to practice this by making arangments with other Dan ranks outside of class time. Respectfully: George Peters _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 4 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:08:09 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Belts for Dans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 6/18/2003 3:06:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << Do many schools actually give out a new black belt for each Dan rank? I have seen that, but didn't think it was actually that common. ??? >> Our association does, with a different color belt stitching for each dan rank. Each belt is also personalized with the recipient's name in Korean. Some choose to wear the awarded belt; some wear a plain black belt for everyday use. (The awarded belts are wide and some prefer a narrower belt.) When we gather as an association, the color-coding makes it much easier to line up where one is supposed to. Sharon --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:36:51 +0200 From: "K. Barends" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: New Dan Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On woensdag, jun 18, 2003, at 22:55 Europe/Amsterdam, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > Do many schools actually give out a new black belt for each Dan rank? > I have seen that, but didn't think it was actually that common. ??? I thought it was common practice to wear your black belt till it falls apart. Then you buy a new one. The only thing which comes with your next dan is certificate. When I hear people talking about how they have three or four different kind of uniforms for their students. Is it just a way of keeping the cash flowing? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:32:51 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Big_Amen!!_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Anthony: "...... Now of course, everything is changing and the new armour is leading to competitive and restrictive sparring rules which do not in my opinion reflect our art, or our core principles. That seems to be the normal result of anything done by committee. I am quite curious how other people/styles approach setting up these kinds of exercises......" I could not agree with you more!! I have long thought that the introduction of hogu and juk-to to Korean sword training has been the death-nell of the art. I thoroughly understand the safety implications, and I certainly respect the historic fact that Kendo was imported and practiced by large numbers of Koreans during and after the Occupation. Its also plain, quite plain, that Kendo and Kendo-like training is here to stay and I don't pretend otherwise. However, such training equiptment whether in China, Korea or Japan was always developed as a way of practicing sword art and NOT as an activity in its own right. For my part I have worked on expanding the paired work of the eight 2-man forms we learn in HwaRang Kumdo into something closer to the "one-step" sparring characteristic of TSD/TKD/HKD. In this way we use the protocol of the hyung, but expand it to techniques and combinations beyond the set 8. I also look to a time when we can practice multiple attacker, multiple direction, and multiple weapon attacks a'la HKD. I also draw on the material of the MYTBTJ heavily and promote the idea of muk-guem rather than juk-to in execution. I must also tell you candidly that this effort is NOT supported by the school at which I train but is research I am doing on my own. Consider it my personal "cutting edge", if you will. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:14:19 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: nascar martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net michael wrote: "I looked like the nascar version of Martial arts" i thought that was jujitsu ;) Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:19:20 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: duct tape Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Again, I might recommend Duct Tape! be careful, randall. some of us gals might get you a duct tape jock strap ;) mel Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:28:56 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] re: All these belts... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net First - I reread my original post, and wish to apologize if the "tone" was offensive. I meant no disrespect to anyone, just wanted to offer my point to view. Mr. Terry wrote: >Do many schools actually give out a new black belt for each Dan rank? >I have seen that, but didn't think it was actually that common. ??? I don't know about common, but my school/organization does do this. On our belts, we have Dan stripes up to fourth degree, then stars from fifth to ninth Dan (1-5 stars). Similar to the stars and bars of the military, so I am told! This would be on the left side of the belt, along with your name, the right side of the belt typically has some designation in Korean like: TaeKwonDo Victory, etc......My next belt reads, in Korean, "Road to Mastership". Now that I think of it, I guess first to second dan does not necessarily get a new belt, but at third degree you definitely do, as you receive the wider belt, 2" belt! YES, we have more than our fair share of uniform decorations. However, as with most things that you get comfortable with, they all have meaning, and help in specific situations like tournaments: we know at a glance who can judge what ring, in what position, etc. Then again, our tournaments are 'closed' so everyone there is dressed alike, so to speak! Confusion factor is minimized! Master Timmerman: Thank you for your extremely kind words. I think this feeling is something I just grew into, and not something someone ever told me I should feel. I guess it grew out of the repect we teach our students to show for their own belts: don't wash them, don't let them on the floor, tie the belt so both sides are equal (representing a balance of mind and body), etc...... In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:55:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lesson in Humility Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Once a month I have ALL of my students, both children and adult, meet for a class in order to get to know each other better instead of being segregated into adult and kid's classes, beginner and advanced, etc. Anyways, the dojang was absolutely packed last night with students, parents, and guests. It was a really good class as we all worked hard on kicking techniques to include alot of jumping and jump/spinning kicks on body shields. To end the class I had one of my Red belt kids perform a flying sidekick over 3 other kids (who were on their hands and knees) into my 100 lb canvas bag I have hanging in my dojang. I wanted to test my student Cain to see if he could perform such a feat in front of such a large crowd and do it successfully. To no suprise really, he executed the flying sidekick almost perfectly. The school was in an uproar with emotion and loud cheers from everyone there. Immediately after Cain's kick it was like the whole place got terribly quiet and everyone was looking at me. I could see in everyone's eyes that they were thinking "Ok Mr. Morgan, what are YOU going to do?" I had not planned on doing any demo or anything like that but once I saw the look from my students I knew I just HAD to do something. So, I had the 3 kids who were on their hands and knees stay there while I added 2 more students to the mix. The only sound in the dojang was a low "oooooohhhhhh, Mr. Morgan's going to jump over 5 people.." After lining them up and measuring my distance for the flying kick I took one practice run. After the practice run I went for it. I had a good run; the timing of my steps were right on; I felt good about it and felt I could jump 10 feet in the air. And then it happened. Every instructor's worst fear came true. At the moment of my jump over 5 students, I tripped over my own feet and fell right on top of my 5 students I had on the floor..... Suddenly, the dojang was absolutely busting with laughter from the audience on hand and the remaining students. Everyone was laughing except for the 5 that I had just landed on. I quickly got up, after twisting my left ankle, and verified that they were all ok and not hurt too badly. After seeing they were ok I stopped to listen to the laughter. After a brief moment of absolute embarrassment, I too began to laugh. Not at what I had just done but for realizing that I was being taught yet another lesson in humility. After soaking in my lesson, I realigned the 5 students and attempted the flying sidekick a second time. This time I nailed it. Instead of laughter there was great applause from everyone. I quickly bowed to the students and told everyone to line up so we could bow out to end the class. I think everyone in attendence to include myself learned an important lesson: even instructors are human and can make mistakes. Yet this is NOT new to me. I have always believed that but getting a real life "reality check" and on-the-spot lesson every now and then helps keep all of us in touch with the fact that we, even though we have a darker belt than our students or have more stripes than some, are still students on a never-ending mission to gain more knowledge than what we had the day before. After class was over and everyone had left I was sitting in my office rubbing my sore left ankle and I could not help but ask myself "What would the likes of Master Hodder, or Master West, or Master Timmerman, or even the wanna-be down Floriday way, have done in my situation?" I would like to think they would have done the same as me; shake it off, laugh at yourself and the situation, and attempt the kick again. But that is only on the outside. What about inside? Would some instructors pride be so damaged from doing what I did in front of such a large crowd that they would react differently? Would some instructors just quickly after falling announce that class is over the retreat to the office to sulk? I'd like to think that I acted appropriately. The only thing sore is my ankle. Pride? No. Ego? No. Ankle? Yes. Does anyone out there have similar stories of humility that they would like to share? Thank you for letting me vent my experience to all of you. James Morgan --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Rulivin4hym@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:46:52 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: stars/stripes/tape/chevrons and other junk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At my school I have an incentive program with stars and the kids can put those on their uniform. When we go to tournaments the kids wear a like uniform without all the extra patches, etc. This extra uniform is the students tournament uniform and is to be worn only for tournaments. This way when the kids compete they have a uniform that looks exceptionally nice and crisp. Gotta respresent that military aspect of the Martial in Martial Arts. Plus it distrurbs a small part of me to see some one compete in a tournament in a uniform that looks like they just got finished practicing in or doesn't fit properly (but that's anopther topic). Michelle Livin' 4HIM Martial Arts Club --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:48:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring Multiple Partners and Changes Induced by Competition Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Anthony, <<<<<<< When you set up a round of sparring with 2 or 3 attackers, do you take time to prepare a strategy for the group of attackers? do you give goals to the attackers, defender or both? How is the duration of a match determined?>>>>>>>>>> For my students, I usually give one or both sides a goal immediately before the command to begin. Sometimes, both sides hear the goal of each, sometimes not. Then afterwards I usually take a minute to discuss how the people did and what they could have or should have done differently. <<<<<<< Now of course, everything is changing and the new armour is leading to competitive and restrictive sparring rules which do not in my opinion reflect our art, or our core principles. That seems to be the normal result of anything done by committee. I am quite curious how other people/styles approach setting up these kinds of exercises.>>>>>>>>>>> I think what you have identified is the same problem that is faced when you try to turn any art into a game. And it doesn't really matter whether its full contact or point competition, with no or hard contact, stoping for scores or continous. Any time the goal is to enhance competition, the rules limit the usable techniques. And in my experience there is invariably a shift in strategy and goals in the training to meet the new objective of competition. I don't see anything wrong with competition, but I tell my students to always recognize that competition is a game, and nothing more. As such we do little very little competition training in my dojang. Maybe just a few matches the week before competition, and we only go to one or possibly 2 a year. I do not believe it can ever equal ja yu dea ryun between a variety of training partners with mutual respect and goals. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:37:14 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: falling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net falling has never been a problem for me regardless of the height. It's those landings that suck. michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:15:32 -0500 From: DPRYGA To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Worn out Welcome Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Timmerman wrote: > Hello Dave: > I also have an open door policy, and it is the result of having been > welcomed in hundreds of Dojos, Kwoons, and Dojangs all over the globe Bruce wrote: "For me this has become standard operating procedure." Ok, heres what I'm dealing with: I have students from other area MA schools coming in to our classes on a fairly regular basis. Some are blackbelts. At first I liked it and welcomed them and didn't ask anything of them. Now I'm beginning to resent that they are taking advantage of our hospitality. I don't really want to turn them out, but I also don't think its fair to me and the students who support our club. Anyone run into this type of situation?.......Dave --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:51:52 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re; Prayers needed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net dear Jye; you should be commended on your great heart, there should be more people like you on the face of this earth. I will keep them in my prayers. Manuel Maldonado _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest