Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:31:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #278 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. anti-American sentiment - mainly the young (A. Boyd) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Out_of_the_community_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. Re: Re:_Why_not_here (Jim McHie Jr.) 4. more on Belts (Lasich, Mark D.) 5. Baked Boards... (Bert Edens) 6. NK TKD (Ray Terry) 7. Replying to Message 2; Washing belts (A Future Computer Scientist) 8. Bo Bo the fool :-) (Charles Richards) 9. Regulation (Charles Richards) 10. Belts (Charles Richards) 11. NK TKD vs. SK TKD (Eddie Urbistondo) 12. Re: Replying to Message 2; Washing belts (Ray Terry) 13. Re: NK TKD vs. SK TKD (Ray Terry) 14. regulation (Patrick L) 15. Florida HapKiDo seminar (J.R. West) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:28:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] anti-American sentiment - mainly the young Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would have to agree that it is mostly those of college age who get the most riled up about nationalist issues. It's just like the birkenstock/save the whales phase many go through in North America. It can be a really odd experience to be in a subway car and see a group of young men giggling because they are excited to be next to a foreigner they think is cool, while another group of men is staring daggers. The most obvious aggression I personally experience is from middle aged men. I am not married to a Korean but I frequently have lunch with one of my Korean co-workers. People who see us together assume we are married. She is married to a Canadian so she has grown used to the stares and glares that are sometimes attracted but it always catches my attention. Her husband has also learned to tune the negativity out so you can see that it rarely becomes directly confrontational. Of course, some people are just staring because they envy the English skill of whatever Korean national they happen to spot with a foreigner. (Or they are angry that the foreigner is not speaking Korean.) ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:55:15 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Out_of_the_community_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....South Korean TKD authorities for the first time in history witnessed North Korean TKD in action. They all agreed that power was the foundation of NK TKD and NK preserved the tradition of a martial art. Both TKD had developed from a common root of Korean traditional martial art. South Korea developed the sport aspect concentrating on developing techniques for speed; whereas North Korea developed a controlled movement and power to dominate the opponent. The North Koreans maintained the martial art aspect of TKD......" Thanks for the article. I wish it might have included some mention of the schooling system that produces the respective systems that were compared. Of course, we all know that the SK TKD have private dochang, programs in schools and the military and the more prestigious organizationally sponsored teams. It would be interesting to know what comparable institutions the NK have for their TKD program. Even more, I would be curious about any other MA traditions that may have been maintained in NK. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Jim McHie Jr." To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:_Why_not_here Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:17:19 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce: I think the problem is that, short of a couple outright scammers, the licensing system wouldn't actually do much to weed out anything but the absolute bottom of the barrel, much lower than the people normally even mentioned on this list. For example, you mentioned drivers' licenses. It is ridiculously easy to get your drivers' license, if you don't just bribe someone for it (you're in Illinois, that should ring a bell from former Governor Ryan's term). I mean, you literally have to be illiterate or blind not to get a license. And once you've got that license (standard or commercial) you can say--'See, I'm a good enough driver that the government gave me a license to operate a motor vehicle!' We know that basically means nothing, but if they started doing that for martial arts? Every two-bit instructor would have a big sign out front--"Government Licensed!" Not only have you *not* weeded out most of the people you wanted to, but now they can claim official licenses. Do you regulate the creation of new 'schools' like Combat Hapkido or just the quality of instructors who want to start renting space and giving lessons? What, realistically, do you think would be tested? TO do it right, you would want the best martial artists doing the testing, how many will donate their time, or accept a small givernmant pittance for testing an extra 'X' hours per week, for such a daunting job? I think one reason the UK system might work, at least compared to the US, is not just because they have regulation, but another very important point that was raised--geographical area. The UK is a small enough place--like a big state--that regulations of this nature have a better chance. This is *not* a slam of the UK, just a geographical notation on more geographically localized regulation--a concept of federalism, if you will. For example, If Chicago/Illinois started a licensing system, or Indiana, it might be somewhere where all the best instructors knew each other or at least knew of each other. But would you really want the wizards of the giant Chicago Bureaucracy handling it? I think one of the biggest problems is that people *would* accept it. It would be a mess, IMO. Jim --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:13:51 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] more on Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Three more thoughts on belts: 1) Washing: I've heard it said that you do not wash your belt, as you may (symbolically) wash out the knowledge you've gained. 2) Floor: Think of it like not letting your American flag touch the floor. For me, it is just a sign of respect for the knowledge you've gained, and the standing within your respective organization. I guess, realistically, you pretty much don't throw anything you care about on the floor - do you? (Unless working with your wife on takedowns ;-) 3) Old Belts: What to do with them? I make "Victory Display Racks". These are roughly 12"w x 14"h boards that have shaker pegs positioned in the shape of a V. Hang your old belts there as you earn them, with white starting on the bottom, as the foundation of your own personal victory! In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:41:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Bert Edens To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Baked Boards... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > After that, friends(?) were giving me baked boards > for months. > Ray Terry Ah, baked boards. The true way to show someone you really care... You know, I'm only a 1st dan, but it is SOOO easy to hear the difference between baked boards and others. And if I can tell, when watching a black belt testing, then you know the 6th dan and up judges can... Always wondered how many of those with the "funny" boards fared in their testing. They were all from other schools (our instructor would beat us and THEN disown us :-), so I don't know... <> - Bert Edens Springdale, Arkansas __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] NK TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Thanks for the article. I wish it might have included some mention of the > schooling system that produces the respective systems that were compared. As I recall, the ITF made inroads to NK when Gen. Choi was fostering better relations between NK and himself/ITF. It has been said that NK TKD is ITF TKD. True, but imho only because of Gen. Choi developing a relationship in his latter years with the NK political structure. Another article I seem to recall was about a foreign visitor to NK that asked to see NK TKD. He (she?) was taken to see the national team. What probably occurred, as did behind the iron curtain, was if you were an excellent athlete with talent/interest in martial arts that became your more than fulltime job. This was what the NK visitor was able to view. Not your local dojang, if such a thing even exists in NK (probably not). I don't believe any real KMA tradition in NK survived the 1900-1945 period. (Dakin?) The division of Korea after WWII, similar to the division of Europe, no doubt ensured the death of 'traditional' KMAs (you know... like TKD :). Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:23:30 -0400 (EDT) From: A Future Computer Scientist To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Replying to Message 2; Washing belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You know, I never gave it much thought and my instructors have never said anything about washing the belt. I believe in the tradition of not washing. I love feeling that I am part of or even doing something that is of the history of the martial arts. My webpage http://members.blackplanet.com/Jeff_A My karate school: http://heriottkd.wcm1.net/Heriot_Website/Entrance.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- GET A JOB! CollegeClub.com can help you earn some cash and get career advice! CollegeClub.com makes college life even better. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:50:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bo Bo the fool :-) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was spinning them all around and doing all kinds of fancy stuff, and while spinning around my hand reversing the grip they went flying off - off to the rafters/ceiling supports where they hung by the chain… and yes, the kids were entertained (that was my goal anyway, right?) Luckily I had also shown them the jang bong with the other weapons and was able to use it to get the chucks down. --------------------------------------------------------------- OK Mac reminds me of one from my love of weapons. Before my two children came into the world, I used to have about 30 minutes in the morning to do some stretches and basic sword cuts and/or drawing. This usually happened in the living room of our home because we had a vaulted ceiling. So one morning my wife hears this great crash. I was practicing standing draw and horizontal cut with my el-cheapo live sword and the ring at the top of the scabbard was loose and came off as I drew the sword. extending it straight out for the cut slung the ring straight into a 4' picture frame. Boy did I feel dumb :-) Charles (aka Bo Bo the fool) Richards __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:08:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Regulation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We have licenses and certs for everything from massage parlors to construction companies. ----------------------------------------------- Dear Ya'll FWIW a licenses is not required for construction companies in Georgia, but many advertise as bonded and insured :-) Of course it's legal to pick up chics at family reunions and to kiss cousins also :-) Basically we have a never ending arguement between those who favour the intent of the constitution and free choice that this country was founded on, and those who desire some patriarchial entity to protect us from ourselves. I've already posted on the imperfections on both sides of the issue so for once I'll just shut up. Be Well, Charles R. www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:32:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net They're worn, a little bit tathered from use, and I like them that way. They represent the work i've been doing as I advance in rank. Keep in mind though i'm a blue belt in TKD and don't keep my belts as long as many of you blackbelts for multiple years. As a question though- what do many of you do with your old belts? ------------------------------------------------------------------ One of the reasons I use RheeMax for supplies is a little extra quality. All their belts are cut and hemmed. Century for example cuts the fabric and heat seals it (color belts). OK if you test every two to three months and don't wash the belt. One other company cuts the belt, and then stitches a loop along the end, a little better, but not the same as a hemmed edge. I like my belts with that worn in Levi's look and that has become a great source of pride to our students. So far the record for my youth students is 6 months in the same belt and it was quite soft, faded and loved in, but no odor. I'm three years in with no less than two more years to a 5th dan test and so far my Belt is still a little too stiff for my taste and odor free. It's just starting to get a little soft and minor stich fraying around the knot :-). Of course I usually wear out two heavy weight uniforms every two to three years...Just when the black (gray) trim starts to look cool the armpits (yellow) dissolve and/or I'll punch one day and the sleave seam will explode. Because of my training in TKD, HKD and TSD, I have been most color belt colors two or three times except orange (never been) and purple (not used in HKD or my former TSD). All my old belts are in a big hope chest and I keep wondering if I should just toss them out, or give them to students. In the past I would cold rinse by blackbelt and sun dry it. This helped it get soft and gray, but I did this only every 4 to 6 months. I suppose in my role as instructor and chief marketter for the school, if I could smell my belt, I would of course wash it. For Charlie, I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I have been known to be the Prince of Misrule during Saturnalia :-) Be Well, Charles R. www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Eddie Urbistondo" To: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:22:54 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] NK TKD vs. SK TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It is simple to see that NK TKD has been maintained as a traditional martial art and SK TKD has been evolved into sport. It was all the same TKD at one time. At my school, we do both: Traditional for self defense/art and sport for competition and children. I think if both organizations got together, it would be better for the future of TKD. I think the North should be in charge of forms and the south in charge of sparring but as one entity. eddie urbistondo --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Replying to Message 2; Washing belts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>> You know, I never gave it much thought and my instructors have never said anything about washing the belt. I believe in the tradition of not washing. I love feeling that I am part of or even doing something that is of the history of the martial arts. <<< But what makes you believe it is part of the history of the martial arts? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] NK TKD vs. SK TKD To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > It is simple to see that NK TKD has been maintained as a traditional martial > art and SK TKD has been evolved into sport. It wasn't maintained in North Korea. It (TKD) never even existed there until fairly recently. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:08:56 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] regulation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Terry, Adding an additional layer of BS to the pile doesn't make it smaller. :) There is nothing about regulators that make them better, smarter, or more honest than the group regulated. My real concern is that ONLY REGULATION makes it possible to detroy the legitimate. No, IMHO there is no better way. Patrick >Of course. It (corruption) will never go away. But is there a better way? > That is my question... Ray Terry< _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:23:24 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Florida HapKiDo seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just confirmed an October 4th date for a one-day HapKiDo seminar in the Tampa area. I look forward to finally meeting Mike Tomlinson and some of the other FL hapkido folks......Thanx....JRW www.hapkido.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest