Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:01:48 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #279 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. legitimate (Patrick L) 2. Korean/US sentiment (Patrick L) 3. wives tales in the KMA (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 4. NK TKD vs. SK TKD (Eddie Urbistondo) 5. More thoughts along the way (J.R. West) 6. a tidbit (michael tomlinson) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Starting_Small_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_NK_Educational_Methods_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. Florida visit by G.M. West (michael tomlinson) 10. belts (Ray Terry) 11. Re: old belts (tntcombatives@attbi.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:24:49 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] legitimate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Rowe, With all due respect; Legitimacy based upon an appeal to authority only stands if the authority is recognised as not having compromised its own values. I have yet to meet a collection of people that meets that criteria. I do not need, nor allow the Korean Gov't, or Master Seo, nor any other Master save my own to determine my "legitimacy". Getting in the Way, Patrick >If you receive a certificate from the World Kido Federation you received it from the World Kido Federation and GM In Sun Seo will attest to it. Michael Rowe< _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:43:42 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean/US sentiment Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mr. Sims >Even in the US look at the hate-crimes that spiked after 9-11 or the sort >of "shoot-em-all-let-gawd-sort-it-out" attitude that popped up after the >bombings in Africa or the attacks in Somalia. < I remember as far back as the Iran Embassy takeover, and many events since, how stupid Americans can behave at times sucumbing to a transference of anger. I am only comforted in knowing that other countries also suffer from their fair share of stupids. >perhaps the Korean people themselves would simply like to have their >"guests" leave. Its not really personal in my view.< I have no problem leaving our fair weather friends in Asia, Europe, Africa, and the mid-East to fend for themselves. After they have been defeated, overrun, and cleansed . . . we will only have to fight our enemies :) Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:55:29 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] wives tales in the KMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, there are still many people out in the world that follow what they believe are KMA traditions, like the belt ones of not washing it or touching the floor. I still run into dojang like that every year.... Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Eddie Urbistondo" To: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:27:25 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] NK TKD vs. SK TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I stand corrected, I meant to say that the ITF has been maintained as a traditional martial art. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:17:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] More thoughts along the way Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings earthlings......Just to throw my two cents in the mix, I have never washed any of my belts, and can remember being told when I was a white belt that washing it was bad karma. As far as the old 'just let it get black with age' story, I can remember having my white belt taken and dyed blue by my instructors and then later red, and then thrown away when I received my chodan. About 25 years ago, one of my students was in Korea with Dr. Kimm and was asked by the good Dr. for the loan of his new belt, which was promptly cut into two pieces, with half being used for a picture with Dr. Kimm's younger son. It was a lesson my student needed to learn, and I personally have a drawer in my storeroom with about 6 or 8 black belts that I have acquired over the years, including one of the ugliest belts I have ever laid my eyes on that was given to me by an old Korean friend (I wouldn't wear it on a bet!), and I have never formed a relationship with any of them. When it comes to regulating our instructors, the main objection that I have with it would be the HUGE number of goobers that have wormed their way into high profile positions without having spent the required time getting there, or just plain lying about their credentials. These charlatans are generally the most vocal and visual of our group, and without a doubt, THEY would be the ones that would be put in charge of policing those that keep a slightly lower and more dignified profile......J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 02:37:56 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] a tidbit Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thought some of you might find this interesting, it was posted in a forum by a soldier stationed right now in Kosovo... Mike On another angle... I am not a Hapkido student, although one of my instructors holds a black belt in Hapkido. I am actually not interested in the "martial arts" end of this discussion. Perhaps I should say I am more interested in the "honor" side. I too read that Black Belt article. I know nothing of Mr. Pelligrini's martial background, except - It is listed there that he did NATO Counter-Intelligence "combat training" or some such (it isn't in front of me) and "sensitive missions for NATO... This is ridiculous. I work closely with NATO, in particular J2. I called in a few favors to check this out. The man only served one year - his Italian National Service. He did not have "specialized training" and my aquaintances laughed at the idea of "NATO Counter-Intelligence 'combat training'" Hey, I'm as happy as the next guy for people to do their thing. But as has been said here: give it to us straight. Don't get creative with the facts. Trying to build street cred by making your one year of national military service into ninja ops just isn't on... and don't give me any bull about it being so "secret" that it was classified and that is why there is no record. EVERYTHING has a record. The guy may be great. There is a Combat Hapkido school near my new place back in North America - when I am next on leave, I will check it out and see for myself... _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:13:01 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Starting_Small_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jim: "....I think one reason the UK system might work, at least compared to the US, is not just because they have regulation, but another very important point that was raised--geographical area. The UK is a small enough place--like a big state--that regulations of this nature have a better chance. This is *not* a slam of the UK, just a geographical notation on more geographically localized regulation--a concept of federalism, if you will....." The points you made were very solid and give me pause to think. Maybe we already have exactly the sort of system that we need if it remains only for folks to see that it applies to what we do. I toss these out for your consideration. a.) Martial arts schools are small businesses. My guess is that just about everywhere small businesses need to be registered with the town or city. b.) Many MA schools have taken to teaching children, and running after school programs. Maybe there are certification or licensing requirements for childcare that might apply. c.) Most educational systems require that teachers have certification in their specialty or at least have registered a waiver by the local school district. My thought is not that we can stop all jerks 100% of the time. I just think that if it were more of a challenge to setting up a school than selecting a location and posting an attractive ad in the phone book maybe it might weed- out some of the undesireables. Maybe some guy who has had a string of failed ventures and trashed many peoples dreams, upon moving to a town where he needs to document 32 hours of teachers' education at the University, business management skills and post a bond or show liability insurance--- maybe he might move on to someplace where the pickings are easier. You know, there was a time when all a person had to do to be a doctor was put up a shingle, or hang a sign in the window of his barber shop. Many times, these days, it remains only for some guy to hang a sign in a rented store front and he's in the MA Education Business. Six months later, if the business fails because Mr. Potatohead doesn't know Business Management 101, he takes off with the last couple of weeks tuition in the till. Swell, now we have another blight on the MA record, and who holds this bozo accountable for screwing people over? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:17:58 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_NK_Educational_Methods_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: "..... Not your local dojang, if such a thing even exists in NK (probably not)....." Too bad. Visiting a couple of neighborhood dochangs is what I would be truely interested in. Of course, I probably wouldn't be able to take any pictures (that is and make it back out of the country :-) )but it would have been interesting, I think, to compare their neighborhood approach with that of their southern neighbors. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 02:58:28 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Florida visit by G.M. West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'll definately mark the October 4th visit and seminar by J.R. West on my calendar,,, sounds like a plan to me. It will be great to finally get to meet J.R. and of course getting thrown and beat up by him. No legitimate Hapkido Grandmaster or Master gets to come thru Florida without putting me in pain and throwing me around,,, I think it's a state law down here!! Mike Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good belt info from Gm West... One of my Korean instructors made a big deal of awarding me a special black belt many years ago. It was a well worn belt, size 4. Now, I doubt I've been a size 4 since about age 10, 10 months that is,,, but he made a big deal about it. It was his very first black belt and he wanted me to have it. Wow! I was greatly honored to receive it. Many years later his only son was approaching black belt at age ~12. I asked this instructor if he would like to have this belt back to give to his son, hoping that this offer would not insult him (i.e. in my returning such an important gift). He looked puzzled... Black belt? Old black belt? What old black belt? He didn't recall giving me or anyone his first black belt... Ummm.?. Now I wonder if he was really 27 time World Champion... :) Ray "get your special belts here" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: tntcombatives@attbi.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:42:57 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: old belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, I like to see the worn-in look on the belts and encourage students not to wash them. A few years back, I failed to mention that and ended up with some students wearing different colors other than white & yellow due to dilligent moms tossing it in with the colored wash load. I save all my belts on a 5 foot pine board (the same type as for breaking) I wrap the belts and tie them just like regular. When my students promote, I have them fold the old belt and I tie a loose knot in it. I have the student pull one end and I pull the other to 'seal' the knowledge in. No tradition or mystical explanation...just something I like to do. A friend of mine ties his student's old belts around their knees so they can hang them on their wall just like in the dojang. I never understood the touching-the-ground thing. Breakfalls, situps, groundwork etc all have it touching. I think the intent here is not to use it as a jumprope or leave it crumpled in the corner. -- Mark Gajdostik --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest