Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:01:48 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #281 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Humility Moments (Bert Edens) 2. New Regulation By the Gov't (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 3. Ready Stances? (Lasich, Mark D.) 4. studio regulations (Charles Richards) 5. Re: wives tales in the KMA (Kent Frazier) 6. Rainy Sunday AM (Ray Terry) 7. Origin of the game Baduk (Go) in Korea (Ray Terry) 8. Master Bob Banham (J.R. West) 9. Gm Choi (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Grandmaster Suk Hwan Choi (John Johnson) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:47:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Bert Edens To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Humility Moments Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > great crash. I was > practicing standing draw and horizontal cut with my > el-cheapo live > sword and the ring at the top of the scabbard was > loose and came off as > I drew the sword. extending it straight out for the > cut slung the ring > straight into a 4' picture frame. > Boy did I feel dumb :-) > Charles (aka Bo Bo the fool) Richards Greetings, sir... My most embarassing moment in the dojang came when I was about a red belt or so... I was practicing with a 15 pound medicine ball with some fellow instructors-in-training. We were going for power tosses to each other, but considering my mass advantage, they quickly decided they didn't want to do that. So then we started to go for distance. I stood back and let it fly... Had it made it the whole distance, it would have been about 40 feet, which isn't bad for a chest-pass of a 15 pound object. Now... the reason I said "had it made it". The medicine ball, on its upward arc made solid contact with our suspended ceiling. Down came the medicine ball, along with about 4 tiles, a light fixture, and lots of wiring and support pieces. My instructor didn't say a whole lot as we were fixing it, and neither did we. We just got him what he needed. But, boy howdy, was sparring fun for a few weeks... :-) We are no longer in that building, but if I go to the Western store there now, I could still find the spot in the ceiling where that happened. The frames are a little bent, and there's some tape still visible. Ok, your turn folks... :) <> - Bert Edens, 1st Dan Springdale, Arkansas __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:54:05 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New Regulation By the Gov't Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There has been many good comments on the pros and cons of regulation. If you want to read about the difficulties in establishing regulation, than I suggest reading "The Modern History OF Taekwondo" by W. S. Kang and K. M. Lee which is found on the www.martialartsresource.com web site. The Koreans struggled for years to established standards etc. Today, there are still many people who are not satisfied with the results in Korea and the WTF. In the USA, I do not believe that we would have national regulation because MA are not national sports and the issues are not of national importance. The regulation would most likely be at the state and local level. Our politicians would be influence by large interest groups and political contributors which may not be good for the small groups and those with less money. The regulatory oversight boards would include politically connected people who may not be qualified MA's and open minded to different styles. This could result in less variety in MA and the loss of innovations. We would end up with dif ferent rules in each state which creates it own set of issues. State and local governments may like this new regulations because it could generate new revenues for them through licensing fees. I do not think the MA schools operators in this country want more expenses such as new license fees. In my opinion, we are better served by letting existing laws and the free enterprise system work for us. Today, there is so much more information available through publications (books, magazines, etc.), the Internet and word of mouth than ever before. Consumers, that do their homework and shop around, will find the good schools near them. If one selects a school that is not right for them than they can always change schools. For the serious MA's, it is a life long journey so changing instructors and schools is not a significant set back. In fact, it may be a good learning experience in the long run. Thanks for allowing me to share my opinions with you. John --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:19:08 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ready Stances? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just curious as to thoughts on the various methods to "get into" a ready stance (Choon-bee): One: step the left foot out, while gently allowing loosly formed fists to come to rest in front of the knot in your belt with about an inch between fists. Overall apparence of the arms is that of a circle in front of the body. Two: step the left foot out, while chambering both fists (bringing them toward the sides, but not quite as much as when punching), which then thrust in front of the body, like punching to the belt level. Overall apparence of the arms is relatively straight. Any pros/cons, benefits/drawbacks, historical/made-up reasons, etc. on "getting ready" one way versus the other???? In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:10:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] studio regulations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My thought is not that we can stop all jerks 100% of the time. I just think that if it were more of a challenge to setting up a school than selecting a location and posting an attractive ad in the phone book maybe it might weed-out some of the undesireables. Maybe some guy who has had a string of failed ventures and trashed many peoples dreams, upon moving to a town where he needs to document 32 hours of teachers' education at the University, business management skills and post a bond or show liability insurance--- maybe he might move on to someplace where the pickings are easier. You know, there was a time when all a person had to do to be a doctor was put up a shingle, or hang a sign in the window of his barber shop. Many times, these days, it remains only for some guy to hang a sign in a rented store front and he's in the MA Education Business. Six months later, if the business fails because Mr. Potatohead doesn't know Business Management 101, he takes off with the last couple of weeks tuition in the till. Swell, now we have another blight on the MA record, and who holds this bozo accountable for screwing people over? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Bruce, I love you man, but you can't have it both ways and you can't have my Bud Lite :-) Seriously, some months back there was a thread going about teaching for money versus the honorable traditional way of teaching a handful of students in your basement pro-bono. So right now in this country an instructor with 10 years teaching experience can for less than $100 get a business liscence (in GA anyway) and for $50 get a club membership with the AAU (insurance) and teach for free or non-profit in his garage (I did it). And many have taught huge non-profit programs out of churches starting with zero start-up capital, some even with Master instructors with 25+ years teaching experience. Are you saying we should make it harder for these honorable persons to pursue their passion and access the less financially fortunate? In my simple little capitalistic mind adding rules simply adds costs to the consumer. Most consumers would rather decide which costs are justifiable. Nobody would argue over the incremental cost of having a government health inspector looking over their local eatery, but with some full time commercial studios charging (and needing to charge) $99 to as much as $179 per month, think about all the people training in YMCA's, churches and garage dojangs that struggle (or so they say) to pay the $20 to $60 monthly dues. I can just see the elimination of that service as increasing regulations would require Master Non-profit to charge almost as much as Master Takeyourdough to teach in a dusty church basement??? Personally, I hold the consumer responsible for a little research. Here in backwards North Georgia you can search the GBI database online to see if a particular adult has a record involving juveniles. A business liscence is also required. Many NGB require/issue studio and our teaching certificates. By just asking (and verifying) a few simple questions the consumer can eliminate the bozo's. I remeber GM West telling a story that a prospect came in and said well I can go to Master Takeyourdough and get a blackbelt in 2 years or whatever. GM West picks up the phone and calls Master TYD and asks can I really get a blackbelt in your school in two years. Master TYD replies yes. GM West smiles and says...but I have no arms and legs....silence on the line. Buyer beware Charles (the capitalist pig) Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:40:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Kent Frazier To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: wives tales in the KMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello again, Jere. Once again, I find myself reminding you that your traditions are far from the only existing traditions. Just because you have never been taught that one does not wash their belt, or that one should not let their belt touch the ground, does NOT mean that it is a false KMA tradition. In fact, the fact that Korean martial artists practice it as tradition means that it IS a KMA tradition, regardless of whether it is one with a long history. Every tradition had to start at some point, so I see no reason to resist new ones unless there is some good reason to. As for it being non-hygenic, I have never washed any of my belts, and none of them have ever even had an unpleasant smell. What's more, they go around my waste, so I severly doubt I am going to contract anything serious unless I chew on it for some reason. Now if you are in the habit of belt-chewing, I would definately suggest you wash your belt regularly, but I don't think it really matters for those of us that simple wear ours. Sincerely, Kent Original Message: ------------------- Message: 3 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:55:29 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] wives tales in the KMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, there are still many people out in the world that follow what they believe are KMA traditions, like the belt ones of not washing it or touching the floor. I still run into dojang like that every year.... Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Rainy Sunday AM Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net June 25, 1950. On a rainy Sunday morning... the Korean War begins. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Origin of the game Baduk (Go) in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net fwiw... By John Fairbairn ORIGIN OF GO (Baduk) IN KOREA It is generally inferred that go reached Korea from China by one of two routes. The earliest possible - broadly in the time of Confucius - would be if it was brought, along with many other aspects of Chinese culture in the migration led by Qizi (Kija in Korean). Qizi had a reputation as a wise man, and he led a huge tribe of followers to avoid fighting raging in China. They settled in the Taedong Basin and called themselves the Han. The other route was about 109 BC when the Chinese invaded and established the separate colonies. It is clear that in either case the impact on the local tribes must have been tremendous. Chinese culture became well established. There is, however, no proof that go was part of the migratory baggage. The case for inferring that it was rests largely the earliest actual reference to go in the History of the Three Kingdoms and related books which record the wars between Koguryo, Paekche and Silla who eventually merged to create modern Korea. It is an incidental reference only. Koryon, the king of Koguryo in the north, had designs on Paekche in the centre. A priest in Koguryo called To-lim, who was reputed to be a champion of go, volunteered to act as an agent provocateur. He knew that the king of Paekche, Yogyong, loved go. Koryon therefore pretended to accuse To-lim of a serious crime. To-lim fled and sought sanctuary with Yogyong. Their shared interest in go made this a formality, especially when To-lim proved in a practice game to be a great master. In time To-lim became a trusted servant of Yogyong. He was soon offering advice in other areas, and urged Yogyong to spend valuable resources on dykes and other civil works. When this advice was followed, he next urged the king to build sumptuous palaces. Once he was satisfied that Paekche had spent its way into trouble, To-lim found a way to escape back to Koguryo. There he was able not just to report to Koryon that Paekche was bankrupt, but also to pinpoint the weakpoints of the various works he had helped build. Koryon, who lived to 98 and so is better known by his epithet the "Long Life King", invaded Paekche in what is now Seoul and was able to wrap up victory easily, killing the Paekche king into the bargain. This event is dated 475 AD. The next reference is not until a famous poem dated 737 in Silla in the south, and the first physical evidence within Korea itself is a stone board dated about 880 at Hae-in Temple (but the go sets still in the Imperial Repository in Nara, Japan, are believed to be of Korean origin and are much earlier). The stone board is famous because the great scholar Ch'oe Ch'i-weon supposedly played on it. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:44:20 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Bob Banham Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Banham wrote: > A quick 'hi' to Master West. I promise I'll come and visit when I'm next in > Mississippi. And a very happy "cheerio" from all your friends in MS, and we ALWAYS welcome a visit from you and yours. For those of you that don't know Master Banham, he is a consummate JiDoKwan TKD'er as well as a VERY good HapKiDo instructor that I met years ago through Dr. Kimm. Bob has been very gracious over the years to many of my students that have visited his dojang in the UK. By the way, Master Banham lives in a house in Norwich that is older than most of the countries on this planet.......J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Gm Choi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Does anyone know grandmaster Suk Hwan Choi the IT director of the korea > hapkido federation, if yes what can you say about him ? You mean the Choi Suk-hwan that some chubby gm wannabe from down FLA-way has billed as "International Technical Director Korea Hapkido Federation and Member of the KHF Masters Demonstration Team" as well as being on the "Korean International Hapkido Accreditation Program Board of Educators"... in an attempt to get yet more people to send yet more $$ down to FLA? Not sure, but given the apparent host... caveat emptor. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "John Johnson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Grandmaster Suk Hwan Choi Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:44:39 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I work with Master Choi on the English KHF Web site. I have also visited his dojang where he opened my eyes to ki (chi) and it's power and importance in Hapkido. He also spoke of his travels to Russia and America where he gave KHF seminars there. In my opinion, Master Choi is a good man, excellent Hapkido teacher, and someone whom several people in the KHF respect. John A. Johnson III, Independent III, Korea Hapkido Federation >From: "gaby noufaily" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Grandmaster Suk Hwan Choi >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:41:51 +0300 > >Does anyone know grandmaster Suk Hwan Choi the IT director of the korea >hapkido federation, if yes what can you  say about him ? thanks  abuelgab > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest