>To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #286 - 9 msgs
>Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:01:48 -0700
>
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><<------------------   The_Dojang mailing list   ------------------>>
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>Serving the Internet since June 1994.
>Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource
>
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>1400 members.
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>See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine
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>Pil Seung!
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #260 - msg 14 Ko Dan Ja Dee
>        (Charles Richards) (Raymond Navarro)
>    2. Black Belt Testing (L. Veuleman)
>    3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_The_level_playing_field?= 
>(bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
>    4. Re: AHA fyi (scottm@scubadiving.com)
>    5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_I_figured_something_like_this_would_happen..
>        ...?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
>    6. RE: black belt (Jason E. Thomas (Y!))
>    7. Re: Re: Belts (Jye nigma)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:18:59 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Raymond Navarro <navarro_hapkido_panama@hapkidokr.org>
>To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #260 - msg 14 Ko Dan Ja 
>Dee
>  (Charles Richards)
>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>
>14. Ko Dan Ja Dee (Charles Richards)
>
>Hi Charles Richards, be blessed.
>
>I am a technical 4th Dan in Tang Soo Do and will never be an official 4th 
>Dan since I after my teacher left my country and me being his assistant he 
>could not give me his same rank; also I when he left joined HapKido because 
>no one else in our TSD group could teach me anything really and now it has 
>been 26 years that I have been teaching Song Moo Kwan HapKiDo under GM 
>Park, Song IL 9th Dan.
>
>Anyhow, I will not say anything about the philosophy, I will say, do you 
>remember that there usaed to be a msitisism back in the old days (25 to 35 
>yeras ago)! well when the person in Tang soo Do would reach a high Black 
>belt or Ko Dan Ja level he would use a whider Belt that the usual ones; 
>mainlly in TSD you would use this whide Red Blet with a trim of Black in 
>its senter and there would be no stripes ! this was soposed to be an 
>intrige part to the art by only the students knowing the rank level of that 
>person, what was shure was that that person wearing this, the Master Blet 
>was to keep a mistic to it !
>
>HAP
>
>Ramon Navarro
>HapKiDo SabomNim
>5th Dan Ko Dan ja
>Song Moo Kwan HapKiDo
>Panama City, Country of Panama
>
> >Message: 14
> >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Charles Richards <mojakwan@yahoo.com>
> >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
> >Subject: [The_Dojang] Ko Dan Ja Dee
> >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
> >
> >Dear Master Lee,
> >
> >Good to see your views on the DD.  We have had many email threads that
> >always get me to thinking and evaluating why I do things the way I do.
> >I must confess I struggled with the Tang Soo Do Ko Dan Ja Dee the
> >entire year before my 4th Dan exam.  I considered the midnight with
> >red, the black with red, the plain black belt and my current wide belt.
> >
> >
> >I have to admit my decision is based on logistics unique to me and my
> >school, and my school's philosophy.
> >
> >We don't wear patches (monsuki).  The only thing we might put on a
> >patch would be yin/yang aka balance.  So we wear Black (um) pants and
> >White tops(yang) and the circle (change) is represented by the belt.
> >
> >What I do is traditional in that it tends to follow Lee, Won Kyuk's
> >Tang Soo Do a little more than Hwang Kee's.  It's not likely that I
> >will wear the midnight belt although I like what it represents (always
> >possible to improve/get a little darker). And I understand the Weh
> >Kong, Neh Yu principle in the Midnight and red belt.
> >
> >I can't find any logical reason for the complete jacket trim other than
> >Hwang Kee liked it, but some time around the 1950's it became in vogue
> >for MDK practitioners.  Research prior to the 1950's I don't see any
> >trimmed tops and I dont see any red stripe belts for Masters.
> >
> >I do however see your point since the 1950's Jacket trim has become a
> >clear sign of Blackbelt rank and the central red stripe has clearly
> >distinguished ko dan ja from u dan ja.
> >
> >So my question for you and Master Dunn and others on the list.  Is it
> >more confusing for other gups and other TSD blackbelts to have a 4th
> >Dan without the distinguishing belt?  In your opinion, does the failure
> >to wear the central red stripe make my belt "less traditional" and if
> >so can you explain your basis for that determination?
> >
> >Always looking forward to learning more about our wonderful art
> >Tang Soo Do,
> >
> >Charles Richards
> >www.mojakwan.com
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________
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>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:07:31 -0700 (PDT)
>From: "L. Veuleman" <lcveuleman@yahoo.com>
>To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>Subject: [The_Dojang] Black Belt Testing
>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>
>Someone asked about black belt requirements in TKD or TSD.  That is a tough 
>one.  I suppose it could be widely varied, depending on organization or 
>instructor or lineage.  I can't speak for TSD (or can I Master Mac?) but in 
>our TKD system, forms wise you must know the Basic set of 6 Kuk Mu forms, 
>the 5 Pyong An's, Chul Gi 1, Hangetsu/Seisan, Pal Sek, and the basic Bong 
>Form.  I think that makes for 15 forms, which I think is just a warm up for 
>fighting, but that is another story.  As far as techniques go, you haven't 
>been taught to strike with every which part of your body for nothing, I am 
>sure it would be on the test, too, as well as combo's of these techniques, 
>plus fighting out the wazoo, one steps, self defense, system knowledge, 
>maybe even organizational activity participation, such as tournaments or 
>seminars.
>
>Anyway, as I said, it could vary so greatly, I just gave you our forms 
>requirements, if you want to know more about our testing, I can tell you 
>that too.
>
>YITMA
>Charlie Veuleman
>
>
>**************
>               L. Charles Veuleman - http://www.bluewavekarate.com
>             Natchitoches Karate Institute - Chittim Jordan Tae Kwon Do
>                                          318-356-7727
>                 Natchitoches Kustom Inks - Quality Screen Printing
>                                          318-332-1676
>                         204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:55:57 -0500 (CDT)
>From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
>To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_The_level_playing_field?=
>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>
>Dear Neal:
>
>Now you're talking! If we need to go this direction, lets'!
>
>Is it a matter that all small businesses get treated equally? OK, Fine.
>
>All MA school will have liability insurance and regular health inspections
>like the retaurants and gymasiums and health clubs do.
>
>If the student is required to sign a contract mandating payment, then the
>school will sign a contract for delivery of service.
>
>  Since teachers in public and private schools are required to have State
>Certification we can fairly require that a MA teacher likewise have
>teachers' credentials.
>
>  And since most MA schools get their revenue in no small part from Kids
>programs maybe we need to through in the requirements for care-givers to
>children including a background check!
>
>I think we can also set standards for uniform flooring, protective
>equipment, washroom and changeroon facilities, yes?
>
>You see, Neal, we can take this as far as anyone wants to go and I can make
>a decent arguement for using just about any kind of licensing or
>certification ordinance one cares to use. There are a lot of really decent
>schools and teachers out there, but not a thing to stop some jerk from
>using the KMA as a scam before he moves on to touting swampland or selling
>used cars out of his backyard. The KMA themselves don't seem to be able to
>police themselves, and the current leadership is too afraid that what is
>used to nail one jerk might uncover questionable behavior on some otherwise
>legit operation. You don't want the government stepping in, organizations
>are scared of alienating members and losing revenue, and there is nothing
>to keep the scam artist from lying to or intimidating even the most savey
>consumers' questions. So what do you say? Is it business as usual? Just how
>long do you intend to let people use KMA like snake oil?
>
>Best Wishes,
>
>Bruce
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:29:53 -0400 (EDT)
>From: scottm@scubadiving.com
>To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: AHA fyi
>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>
>Ray wrote "fyi...I was just on the phone with the widow of the late Master
>Mike Wollmershauser..."
>
>as an aside, i recall hearing that he was one of the few westerners
>who studied directly under gm choi, yong-sool.  anyone else heard that?
>
>scott
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:05:36 -0500 (CDT)
>From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
>To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>Subject: [The_Dojang] 
>=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_I_figured_something_like_this_would_happen..
>  ...?=
>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>
>Dear Ray:
>
>"......Her request was for me to let folks know that this -new- URL is not 
>-
>the-
>URL for the AHA.  And that this new group, also apparently along with
>Mr. Danny Anderson, has nothing to do with the AHA as founded by Mike
>Wollmershauser......"
>
>OK. So is the AHA still alive and well? Who are they aligned with, or what
>style are they presenting. Any information that you have on what is going
>on with the organization would probably help.
>
>Best Wishes,
>
>Bruce
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" <syne7@yahoo.com>
>To: <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
>Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] black belt
>Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:23:49 -0500
>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>
>Fred,
>
>	It varies from school to school and organization to
>organization.  I have my belt test requirements posted on my school
>site:
>
>http://www.natkd.com/downloads.htm
>
>	You are welcome to download them and take a look.
>
>	If anyone else has time to read and comment, I'd welcome any
>suggestions for improvement.
>
>Regards,
>
>Jason E. Thomas
>Chief Instructor
>North Austin Taekwondo Club
>www.natkd.com
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: freddie bishop [mailto:mauler681@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 2:59 PM
> > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
> > Subject: [The_Dojang] black belt
> >
> >   In Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do dojangs, what is
> > required of a person to receive their black belt?
> >
> >                              Fred
> >
> > __________________________________
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> > _______________________________________________
> > The_Dojang mailing list,  1400 members
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> > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource
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>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:13:51 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jye nigma <kingjye@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Belts
>To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
>
>I find that a brand new belt smells most likely
>because of the various dyes used to produce the
>colors, so I like to  wash them at least twice to get
>rid of that smell, but to really make them more
>flexible.
>
>Jye
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>
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>Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com
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>End of The_Dojang Digest