Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:01:49 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #292 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Re: Dan Testing R Terry (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) 2. Taekwondo teacher in London (R. Banham) 3. Belt failures (R. Banham) 4. RE: Dan Testing (Piotr Bernat) 5. Belt Certificates (Emactkd@aol.com) 6. Kuk Sool vs. Kong Shin Bup (Jason E. Thomas) 7. Test Failures (timdnml@comcast.net) 8. Re: Re: Kukkiwon cert (John Johnson) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Dan Testing R Terry Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:48:01 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I really think the true measure of your Dan Ranking is your individual skill and knowledge and the person who awarded the rank. I'm not against organizations or anything like that. In the end the true measure of a person, is the person and those that help form him/her. Just one man's opinion. Regards, Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: Manuel Maldonado [mailto:sudomakki2003@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 10:57 AM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dan Testing R Terry > > Yes I know that, but I'm going on my own. The ITF has never issued me my > Certificate eventhough I tested last year and I'm pretty much tired of > waiting and I don't want any of my students to have to go through what I > went through. Paying large sums of money never to see my certificate > because > "Master MacClollen stole the money" I feel that it's the ITF's > responsabliity to see to it that everyone that is going to be promoted > dose > regardless if Master So and So stole the money or not. I don't care put > him > in jail or something I've patiently waited and personally don't care. My > wife is mad since I had to take out a cash advance for this promotion, she > said "what would you do if a parent of one of your students came to you > looking for their Dan Jung""What would you tell them, how would you fix > the > situation" Well I got to thinking about it and have meet some real nice > folks in the WTF that are willing to lend me a helping hand I would love > to > issue both certificates, but I've been waiting since May of 2002 and > haven't > got mine yet. And you know or have heard about how "prestigious"the > Kukkiwon > certificate is it's also a great way to promote Taekwon-Do. If It's not an > ITF or Kukkiwon Dan It's not really a Dan. Manuel > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "R. Banham" To: Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:01:25 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo teacher in London Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, You don't say whether you are looking for WTF or ITF. Let us know which and I will give you some names. Bob Banham --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "R. Banham" To: Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:15:08 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Belt failures Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This may be controversial but in all the 30 years I have been testing students, I have never failed one! If the student signs on with the understanding they will test every 3 months, and they are not ready to test or fail, then as far as I am concerned it is not the student who has failed but the instructor. My staff have always made sure a student is ready to test when they should. Sure, I may comment on their grading form that such and such needs improvement and require them to show it again in a month's time before allowing them to wear their new grade in class, but failure is such a negative connotation and as far as I am concerned, should never be used in a system where we are trying to emphasise positive traits. My instructors know that I frown very darkly on students who are not up to scratch and that they, the instructor, will have an awful lot of explaining to do should they present a student to test who isn't ready! Bob Banham --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Piotr Bernat" To: Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:25:48 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Dan Testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > And you know or have heard about how "prestigious"the Kukkiwon > certificate is it's also a great way to promote Taekwon-Do. If > It's not an ITF or Kukkiwon Dan It's not really a Dan. Manuel My opinion is - as the old saying goes - "it's not the Dan, it's the man" (or woman ;) There was a time when having a Kukkiwon certificate was really big deal to me, but this is history. Also when a person comes to my school it's more important to me what s/he knows and can do, than what federation's name is printed is on the top of his/hers certificate. Testing for Kukkiwon certificate was never such fun for me as testing for independent federation's grade. The same is with my students. They can get KKW certs if they wish to. I asked recently if they prefer to test for KKW Dan or independent one. They all choose independent - as they said "at lease we will have a real testing then". Needless to say that I also know quite a number of people in the area who got their KKW certs at the barbecue or sitting in the office when the others had to perform. Sad but also true in some places around the world. Piotr Bernat www.taekwondo.prv.pl --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:54:17 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Belt Certificates Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Certificates are wonderful aren't they? I went to high school and got a certificate from the school, with the school's name on it and everything. I went to college and got a certificate with the school's name on it and everything. Both school's were accreditied in some way of course, but the value of the EDUCATION is what has carried me through, not the pretty pictures. So here we train in a school for years, usually almost as long as a high school or college course, and at the end we insist that someone who doesn't know us, hasn't seen us, has never taken the slightest personal interest in us, doesn't send in a test board member or any other support to our training is the only acceptable source for that pretty picture. Just a ponder. Rick Foley --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Jason E. Thomas" To: Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:02:49 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kuk Sool vs. Kong Shin Bup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've been doing a little web research on Hapkido and have seen that Kuk Sool and Kong Shin Bup seem to come up together. I was wondering if some one might have a history or information on how they are related (If that's a true assumption). Thanks for your time. Regards, Jason E. Thomas Chief Instructor North Austin Taekwondo Club www.natkd.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: To: Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:49:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Test Failures Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the beginning of my Martial Arts journey, I had a dedicated instructor who was an excellent teacher and motivator. I never took a test I wasn't ready for. After he left and his brother took over, I learned of the darker side of the belt mill. In my current school, I feel I owe it to the students I instruct to see to it that they are ready for their tests. I know well in advance if a particular student is ready for his promo test. I would advise against testing at all if I was not 100% confident that the student was capable. I am aware of testing anxiety and allow for such. In short, I don't fail students because I try my best not to let them test if they are not ready and I feel I have tested them in class every day (I have no financial interest in the outcomes). 99/100 times this works out to the students' advantage. Thanks for the bandwidth, timo --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "John Johnson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Kukkiwon cert Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:54:08 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Is the Kukkiwon stuff a big deal? I know that some people seem to live for >it and treat it as almost a religious thing... but for more rational >people, is it worth the extra money for someone to get the piece of paper? Absolutely. Even though my grandmaster is affliated with the Kukkiwon, he never sent in for my certificates and never told me he could. When I arrived in Korea I quickly learned that if I didn't have a Kukkiwon certificate I was required to start at white belt level, even though I had over 11 years of training. Granted, you may not be moving to Korea any time soon. However, if you wantto get respect and recognition for your years of training anywhere you go, I suggest you get the certificate. John A. Johnson >From: Dan Monjar >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kukkiwon cert >Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 08:09:40 -0400 > >--On Friday, July 04, 2003 03:01:48 AM -0700 >the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > >>Things may have changed since the death of Gen. Choi, but in the past >>there was no way the ITF would permit you to also be involved with >>the Kukkiwon. If you even taught the Kukki-TKD forms in an ITF school >>you'd be kicked out of the org. >> >>Ray Terry >>rterry@idiom.com > >First of all, Happy 4th of July! > >Is the Kukkiwon stuff a big deal? I know that some people seem to live for >it and treat it as almost a religious thing... but for more rational >people, is it worth the extra money for someone to get the piece of paper? > >-- >Daniel Monjar >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719.866.4632 FAX 719.866.4642 ustugold@mailsnare.net www.ustu.org Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest