Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:23:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #304 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: ITF Split (Christopher Spiller) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kendo,_eh=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Keeping_it_simple?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. ITF Split (Dave Steffen) 5. a poor memory... :) (Ray Terry) 6. Re: WTF in North Carolina (Dan Monjar) 7. WTF in North Carolina (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 8. Re: Re: Keeping it simple (John Johnson) 9. KHF chodan reqs (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:39:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF Split Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" > To: > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:41:40 -0500 > Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF Split > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Does anyone have a summary on the ITF split or could > you point me to a > quality resource on the we that explains it? So far > I've found the > following: > > > > 1. ITF, President Master Choi Jung Hwa > (www.itf-admin.com > ); Multiple US Governing > Bodies? > > 2. ITF, President Master Tran Trieu Quan > (www.itf-generalchoi.com > ); US Governing > Body = USTF > > 3. USITF, President ? (Gordon Jue & Rober > Wheatley) > > 4. USA-ITF, KATU (Master Hwang) > (www.itf-katu.com) > > 5. ITF, President Mr. Chang Ung > (www.internationaltaekwon-dofederation.com > > ); US Governing Body > (USA-ITF?) > > > > If anyone has any information on the split or any of > the above > organaizations or any that aren't mentioned. I'd > greatly appreciate it. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Regards, > > Jason E. Thomas > Chief Instructor > North Austin Taekwondo Club > www.natkd.com Mr. Thomas, You're fairly accurate on your break down of how things stand at the moment with regards to the various ITF(s). Just to clarify things a little bit: 1. ITF under Master Choi, Jung Hwa - multiple INO's (Independent National Organizations) as well as the possibility of registering individual dojangs directly under the ITF. Side note and shamless plug - I am a member of the ATFI, an INO whose President is Master Fabien Nunez and VP is Mr. John Cacioli. Been a great time so far, very helpful people and great seminar earlier this year. 2. ITF under Master Tran, Trieu Quan - as far as I know the USTF remains an independent organization, resigning from the ITF about a year following General Choi's death. The USTF is still listed as an NGB on the www.itf-generalchoi.com site, but I believe this is inaccurate. I know there are some USTF members on the list who would know better than I (Mr. Martin?). 3. USITF - This is an INO under Master Choi's ITF. Master Robert Wheatly is the President and Mr. Gordon Jue is one of the VP's. 4. USA-ITF/KATU under Grand Master Hwang, Kwang Sung. As far as I can figure, USA-ITF is the reorganized U.S. NGB for the ITF under Chang Ung (after the resignation of GM Sereff and the USTF). KATU seems to be continuing on and may be functioning as a sub group within USA-ITF. Best thing to do in this case is contact either GM Hwang directly or the webmaster at www.itf-katu.com. GM Hwang was always very approachable when I spoke with him. 5. ITF under chang Ung - yep, the USA-ITF is their governing body. Hope this helps get things a little clearer. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:55:34 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kendo,_eh=3F_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: "....Is this the 4-tape series by KIM Nam-jae and is sold by the KHF? If so the sword portion 'stars' my friend Holcombe Thomas, KHF 7th Dan. He has also studied kendo. As I recall from talking to him, what you are seeing there is kendo...." Yep, thats' right. Right towards the end of tape #4 and not much more than 60 seconds at that. Since this is the "officially sanctioned" tape I am going to conclude that the material coming up in the Alabama seminar will likewise be Kendo-esque. Figures, given the source. Thanks for clearing that up. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:06:54 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Keeping_it_simple?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear John: "....I wish I could help you with your problem, but I am confused what you are asking me about. If I understood your posting correctly, I am assuming (and we know what that means!) you're inquiring about the status of the national KHF representatives and Mr. Hackworth's involvement with them. The answer to that question is found in Master Bae's message Master Bae on the KHF Web site....." Rereading my previous post I can see where my request was pretty broad. How about this--- five quick questions. 1.) For any English-speaking individual who wants the straight information directly from the Korea Hapkido Federation, what is the single correct website? 2.) Who is the current ultimate authority or policy determinant for the Korea Hapkido Federation? 3.) Is there a single representative of the KHF authority in the US? And who is it? 4.) If a person wanted to communicate directly with the KHF who would they communicate with and how can that person be reached? 5.) Is the KHF curriculum essentially the same or are their changes in the works? Don't mean to be overly simplistic but if anyone else has any questions I bet they will just jump right in. Thanks in advance. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Dave Steffen Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:22:46 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF Split Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" > Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF Split > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Does anyone have a summary on the ITF split or could you point me > to a quality resource on the we that explains it? So far I've > found the following: I'll tell you what I know; others may be able to expand on some points... > 1. ITF, President Master Choi Jung Hwa (www.itf-admin.com > ); Multiple US Governing Bodies? Master Choi was elected president of the ITF a few years before the General died; those who stayed with General Choi (the "old" ITF) claim the election was unconstitutional. Yes, there are several US Governing Bodies. I am under the impression (and may be wrong about this) that the NGBs don't have as much control over the individual schools; they are set up to handle the paperwork. > 2. ITF, President Master Tran Trieu Quan (www.itf-generalchoi.com > ); US Governing Body = USTF Master Quan was recently elected. This is one branch of the "old" ITF, i.e. the group that maintained their allegiance to General Choi. Master MacLelland (sp?) was appointed temporary President when the General died. This group split when Mr. Chang Ung was elected president; those who continued to follow Master MacLelland claim the election was unconstitutional. GM Seriff, president of the USTF, pulled the USTF out of the ITF after Mr. Chang Ung was elected. To the best of my knowledge, the USTF is not the NGB of anything; it is its own entity. That being said, I don't know what organization is functioning as Master Quan's NGB in the USA. (Don't you love TLAs? ;-) > 3. USITF, President ? (Gordon Jue & Rober Wheatley) I think - but am not sure - that this is one of the NGB's for Master Choi's ITF (the "new" ITF). > 4. USA-ITF, KATU (Master Hwang) (www.itf-katu.com) As far as I know, this is the NGB for Mr. Chang Ung's ITF. > 5. ITF, President Mr. Chang Ung > (www.internationaltaekwon-dofederation.com > ); US Governing Body > (USA-ITF?) The NGB is effectively KATU, but I think they renamed it; I think (but am not sure) that KATU now refers more specifically to GM Hwang's schools. > If anyone has any information on the split or any of the above > organaizations or any that aren't mentioned. I'd greatly > appreciate it. Does that help? The whole thing is a mess, and is very distressing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen, Ph.D. Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] a poor memory... :) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Rereading my previous post I can see where my request was pretty broad. How > about this--- five quick questions. Five questions snipped. Bruce, if you check back in the archives, John has already addressed all or most of your questions. Some as recently as the last few issues of the digest... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:46:57 -0400 From: Dan Monjar To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: WTF in North Carolina Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net --On Tuesday, July 15, 2003 07:03:02 AM -0700 the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:13:02 -0400 > From: Divetony@aol.com > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF in North Carolina > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I may be relocating to the North Charlotte, NC area (Huntersville?. > Anyone know of any WTF schools in the area? I just reached my pre-Black > (1st gup)belt and while I'm trying to stay in the area until my big day > it may or may not be possible. At 43 I just don't feel like starting over > again, I would like to keep my belt when I move. > > Any help will be appreciated, Thank You > Tony This link off my Dojang's web page might help... -- Daniel Monjar --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:30:17 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, Divetony@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF in North Carolina Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tony The Lee Brothers have several locations in North Carolina. There are 5 of the 6 brothers, who are all Masters or GMs, in North Carolina. They are WTF. You should check out there web sites (http://www.leebrotherskick.com/). They all have web sites which have links to each others. I am a student of the oldest brother GM H. K. Lee in VA and I do recommend them. Good Luck John --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "John Johnson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Keeping it simple Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:18:13 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Bruce, I'll do my best to answer your questions in the order you asked. >1.) For any English-speaking individual who wants the straight information >directly from the Korea Hapkido Federation, what is the single correct >website? The official Web site in Korea for the KHF is www.hapkidokkorea.org, but Mr. Hackwroth has had his American KHF Web site up for several years. I have repeatedly stated that the best way to contact the KHF is through Master Bae, Sung-book at >2.) Who is the current ultimate authority or policy determinant for the >Korea Hapkido Federation? I am unsure how decisions are officially made within the KHF. However, once again, your best bet is to contact Master Bae. >3.) Is there a single representative of the KHF authority in the US? And >who is it? Mr. Hackwroth has claimed he is the US representative. However, in Master Bae's recent posting on the KHF Web site, he did not state there was a US representative yet. So, I do not know exactly. >4.) If a person wanted to communicate directly with the KHF who would they >communicate with and how can that person be reached? Again, contact Master Bae. >5.) Is the KHF curriculum essentially the same or are their changes in the >works? This is something I have heard nothing about. I am curious if you have heard anything about this. I hope it does not sound like I am passing the buck to Master Bae. However, as I said before, I am only passing on information from the Federation. If you or anyone else wishes to know information about the current events regarding the KHF, I suggust you contact Master Bae because he is the one with answers. Everything I know comes from him. I hope this helps. John _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] KHF chodan reqs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >5.) Is the KHF curriculum essentially the same or are their changes in the > >works? > This is something I have heard nothing about. I am curious if you have heard > anything about this. The following were the KHF chodan requirements as of ~3 years ago. Not sure how/if they have changed since then. Ray ----------------------------------------------------------------------- First dan requirements I. Self-defense (wrist and clothing grabs). (1) Same-side wrist grab (e.g., right hand grabs left wrist) -- strike, joint lock, throw (one each). (2) Clothing/body grabs, from the front -- sleeve end, mid-sleeve, rear of the collar, front lapel (straight on, lifting, and with hand reversed, i.e., thumb pointing down), belt grabs (with fingers pointing both up and down), hair grabs, (all one handed), front bear hugs (both under and over the defender's arms). (3) Clothing/body grabs, from the rear -- one-handed collar grab, both shoulders (with both hands), both elbows, both wrists (at defender's sides and with wrists pulled back), rear bear hugs (both under and over defender's arms). NOTE: Any defenses are okay for #'s 2 and 3, but testers do ask for additional techniques and sometimes specify a strike, lock, or throw. (4) Cross-hand wrist grab (e.g., right hand to right wrist) -- strike, lock, throw (one each). II. Defenses against fist strikes/punches, after blocking -- strike, lock, throw (one each). III. Defenses against kicks (sike kicks) -- strike, lock, throw (oneeach). IV. Defenses against attacks (1) Against attempts to grab, defending as the attack comes -- strike, lock, throw (one each). (2) After being grabbed, any two defenses, may be in any category. (3) Against throws, any two defenses, may be in any category. NOTES: I think that a testee would be better off with a strike and a throw here, for example, than with two strikes. These attacks differ from those in #1 in that they are dynamic; they are done on the move. In #1, the attacks are from static positions. V. Initiative techniques (a poor translation; the Chinese characters literally mean "before technique." The defender seizes the initiative and moves first. -- Strike, lock, throw (one each). NOTE: Police-style arrest techniques are part of this grouping. VI. Breakfalls -- Hwe Jon Nak Pop, turning breakfall, flipping in the air into a side breakfall/roll. NOTE: I don't think I have ever seen a test in Korea, at any rank, which did not include rolls and often other breakfalls. VII. Basic kicks -- straight-leg rising heel kick (straight leg raise, basically, to the front), side kick, round-house kick, hook kick, inside and outside crescent kicks. NOTE: Variations of any and all are fair game for the examiner. VIII. Advanced kicks -- spinning hook kick (head level), jump spinning hook kick (to the head), mid-level spinning hook kick (from more-or-less a ready stance), sitting/lower level spinning hook kick, double front kicks (to the front, both feet together, and to the sides), double side kick (i.e., with same foot, kicking low/mid, usu. as a fake, and thenhigh). NOTES: 1. These are the association's minimums. Individual instructors can, and do, add additional requirements. 2. Self-defense techniques are divided into strikes, joint locks, and throws. Joint locks typically hyper-extend a joint (most often the elbow) or twist the joint (wrists). Throws off-balance the opponent, generally, but not always, without causing pain (at until impact). The yudo/judo-derived throws are examples. A throw with twisting the wrist is generally classified at a joint-lock, even if the lock serves only to take the opponent's balance. 3. At times, examiners will ask for additional techniques or kicks. If the examiner knows that a student knows more advanced techniques (knife or sword takaways or the various bong kisul, for instance, or if the examiner thinks the testee is particularly good in given area, these techniques may be requested. 4. In my school, at least, my instructor does not generally test his own students. An old friend of his, from our sister school, typically tests our students. My instructor reciprocates by testing his friend's students. This keeps the system a bit more honest, perhaps, and induces a little more stress in the students. 5. Obligatory disclaimer: The translation is mine, as are any errors. The notes are mine, as well, and reflect my observations and understanding of the techniques and the testing process. If something is not accurate, I apologize. 6. There is nothing to stop an individual instructor from adding additional requirements. 7. As near as I can tell, there is no set curriculum -- just responses to specific attacks. Different schools do different techniques first, though most are pretty much on the same schedule. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11 End of The_Dojang Digest