Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:01:50 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #306 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Hackworth (Victor Cushing) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_And_what_about_the_other_guy=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. moving to LA (Rain Breaw) 4. Re: ITF Split (Dave Steffen) (Christopher Spiller) 5. Truth (Ray Terry) 6. KHF - Politics - Reason for Training (ABurrese@aol.com) 7. questionable khf website (Ray Terry) 8. Re: questionable khf website (Tom) 9. schools (Braeswood Martial Arts) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:29:54 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor Cushing Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hackworth Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Would a flood of emails from all of those of us who hold Hapkido ranks on >the DD from any organization to Master Bae help to influence the powers >that be that chosing Mr. Hackworth would be a serious mistake? Vic Cushing >'That position' being the USA national/regional rep to the KHF. Master Bae >also mentioned, however, that the person mentioned above is one of the >candidates currently being considered to fill this new position. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:03:29 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_And_what_about_the_other_guy=3F_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: "...In his email message he indicated: "In the USA, no one is appointed at that position yet." 'That position' being the USA national/regional rep to the KHF. Master Bae also mentioned, however, that the person mentioned above is one of the candidates currently being considered to fill this new position......" Sounds as though the whole Gary Pointer appointment was some sort of impulsive flash-in-the-pan. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:06:40 -0400 From: Rain Breaw To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] moving to LA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm going to be moving to LA at the end of July for graduate school, and am hoping to find a good Tang Soo Do school within walking or easy bus-ride distance from my new location (mid-Wilshire/Downtown/South Central). I am currently with a school that is a member of Grandmaster Byrne's American Tang Soo Do Association, and it does not appear that the ATA has any affiliated schools in California. I'll be moving as a 3rd Gup, but realize that there is the possibility of having to start fresh again, which is fine with me so long as I find a good school. I would like to stick with Tang Soo Do, since I have invested so much in learning and am not yet at the point where I can practice on my own correctly. If you know of anyone that I should contact, then thank you very much for your comment. Tang soo, Rain --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:26:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF Split (Dave Steffen) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dave Steffen said: >Master Choi was elected president of the ITF a few years before the General died; those who stayed with General Choi (the "old" ITF)claim the election was unconstitutional.< Is this the case? I'm not privy to much high up info in the ITF or anything but the common criticism I have heard regarding Master Choi and his presidency was not that the election was unconstitutional but rather that there was a growing chance of a merger with the WTF and that General Choi was the only one who could lead the ITF during such a time. Of course, according to people who know Master Choi the reason was that he basically told the North Koreans that they could be members of the ITF but would not be exercising any undo influence over the organization. Again, this is just what I have heard and read on the internet and am *not* looking to start a flame war! >Yes, there are several US Governing Bodies. I am under the impression (and may be wrong about this) that the NGBs don't have as much control over the individual schools; they are set up to handle the paperwork.< I think that is going to depend on each INO. One of the things about the INO and the independent dojang structure is that it's going to make things more competetive as far as what an organization is going to offer its members, IMO. >GM Seriff, president of the USTF, pulled the USTF out of the ITF after Mr. Chang Ung was elected. To the best of my knowledge, the USTF is not the NGB of anything; it is its own entity. That being said, I don't know what organization is functioning as Master Quan's NGB in the USA. (Don't you love TLAs? ;-)< Yes they are fun, AFAICT ;) As for the ITF under Master Quan the only thing I would hazard a guess at as far as an NGB in the US would be that perhaps GM Van Bin Nguyen or GM Duc Dang (both promoted to IX dan by General Choi, I think) will be in charge of things in the US. I believe GM Nguyen was in Poland for this ITF's recent World Championships. > > 5. ITF, President Mr. Chang Ung > > (www.internationaltaekwon-dofederation.com > > ); US Governing Body > > (USA-ITF?) >The NGB is effectively KATU, but I think they renamed it; I think(but am not sure) that KATU now refers more specifically to GM Hwang's schools.< I don't mean to pry and I know you don't know me from Adam but I was under the impression from reading some of your posts here that your school was a member of KATU under GM Hwang. I was briefly a member of that organization (and have a lot of respect for GM Hwang as a martial artist) before joining the ATFI. I was wondering if you know how things are going with GM Hwang's group now. I'm not interested in belittling anyone or starting an online debate, I'm just curious how the individual groups are picking up the pieces after the General's death. >Does that help? The whole thing is a mess, and is very distressing.< I completely agree with you. I would much rather see any or all of the ITF factions reunite. I don't know if this would be possible under any of the current heads (I would prefer Master Choi, of course, but that's my own particular bias and am sure others have theirs). Who knows, maybe in a few years when the dust has settled. Let's keep a good thought, at any rate. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Truth Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Would a flood of emails from all of those of us who hold Hapkido ranks on >the DD from any organization to Master Bae help to influence the powers >that be... I suspect that communcating the facts could not hurt. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:18:40 -0400 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KHF - Politics - Reason for Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I’ve read the different posts about the KHF with interest. As most know, I am under the KHF. My links are directly with instructors in Korea. I try to ignore the politics of different MA organizations and such, since what is important is training and developing yourself. This is what my instructor in Korea believes, and it is what I have believed for years. This is why for many years I had no rank. Part of this was that I moved so much, so I was always starting over at new schools. But I also spent a lot of time with training partners practicing, figuring things out, and improving without any formal class. I didn’t get rank from Marc MacYoung for all those hours in the back yard, but I sure learned a lot. I just bring this up because some people believe a certificate on the wall counts for more than experience, training, and teaching ability. I’ve been called a nobody with some videos that don’t sell well by a much higher ranked person. Fine, that’s his opinion without ever seeing me or the videos or things I’ve written. (Funny thing though, he changed his tune when I called him on his comments) I have also been told by someone who attended an all day seminar I gave and one by a much higher ranked person who is on covers of magazines that my seminar was more fun and he learned more. Hmm… Again, just another’s opinion. My videos have also received some of the highest reviews of videos out there. At the martial art video review site, only a couple videos had a higher score than my first Hapkido video. And that’s out of nearly 500 videos. Others have said out of hundreds of videos, mine have been among the best for instructional value. Maybe this is because I care about helping people learn, not just about making money. In addition, I have years of teaching and speaking experience. I’ve taught in the military, taught university level classes, taught both adults and kids in Japan and Korea, competed in speech contests, taught many leadership and success workshops and programs, and have taught Hapkido and self-defense. The other speaking and teaching I do naturally make me a better Hapkido/Self-defense instructor too. So, what does this have to do with the KHF? It has to do with the fact that I believe the KHF is a good organization with some people trying to promote the art of Hapkido. I have great respect for my friends and instructors in the art from Korea. Unfortunately, some people in the organization do not feel or act as I do. I was recently called a coward for having my wife post something in Korean about members of the KHF that I disagree with on some issues. Fact is – I did not post it, and neither did my wife. I still have no clue who made the post, but was called names through e-mail about it. (John – did you ever find out more about this, because I am still clueless why this guy wrote me the way he did.) People that know me also know that I sign what I write, and I have no problem standing behind my thoughts and opinions. The reason I write this is that it really saddens me to see so much fighting go on over organizations, rank and whatnot. We must ask ourselves, why are we training? Why are we teaching? Granted, some are teaching to make a living. That’s fine, and I would hope they make a good living at doing it. But you do not need to put others down to attempt to make yourself look better to get more students. You don’t need to put other organizations down to attempt to make your organization appear better. That’s a characteristic of low self-esteem. Most martial arts have a code or oath associated with them, but how many of us really try and follow these? And what’s more, how many of us forget these principles and get drug into the fighting and bad mouthing of others when we are attacked? I know I do at times, and it is a chore to remember that what other people call me, or think about my rank vs. theirs does not really matter. I know what I have done, I know what I can do, and I know I am good at teaching others. I also know that next week I will be a better martial artist than I am right now, and the week after I will be better yet, because I continue to constantly learn and train for my self-improvement. So, while organizations have a place, and as long as there are organizations there will be politics, let’s try and remember the true meaning behind training, and that what others do to attempt to boost their self-esteem really doesn’t hurt us, unless we are not comfortable with who we are and what we can do. We really shouldn’t need a certificate on the wall, belt around our waist or anything else to know that we are improving and becoming better people as well as better martial artists. Yes, recognition is nice, and important to a point, but the true benefit of training is within. Remember Mr. Miyagi’s lessons from the Karate Kid films. He really did make some good points in those movies. Regardless of who is what in an organization, there will be those of us that care about improving and helping others. Let’s try and foster this and build a network of martial artists that are above rank and organizations and stand for creating better people through improvement. Last week I did a seminar and I was the only one from the KHF there. Everyone that came to the seminar was from a different organization and different arts. And a number of the people there had more “rank” than I have. But everyone there learned, had a good time, and they want me back again next spring. This is what the arts should be about. I’ll get off my soap box now. It’s just troublesome to see so much bickering and fighting among people, to be called names by people, all over money and politics. Let's get back to the real reason to train - to improve yourself. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] questionable khf website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Received this from someone as a heads-up. A post from that highly questionable KHF website down in Florida. Sorta funny actually... :) Ray http://hapkidokorea.org/english/user_qna.php John Johnson Writer : Kevin Huston Who is John Johnson and what is his official duty in the KHF? Is it his job to offend Masters in the USA to the point of putting his personal safety on the line? Is his alternative lifestyle relationship with Ray Terry supported by the federation? --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Tom" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] questionable khf website Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:52:04 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here is more questionable material from that website. Note the use of the word most: Hackworth Magazine Article Writer : Kevin Huston (legacybelts@direcway.com) File download : mag article cover.jpg Martial Arts As Preventative Medicine magazine cover story by Grand Master Richard Hackworth on Combat Magazine in England. Grand Master Hackworth is the most respected master in America. He is the most influential master in Hapkido. According to the dictionary most is defined as: most adj. Superlative of many., much. 1.. 1.. Greatest in number: won the most votes. 2.. Greatest in amount, extent, or degree: has the most compassion. 2.. In the greatest number of instances: Most fish have fins. I find the use of this word most odd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Terry" To: "The_Dojang" Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:04 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] questionable khf website Received this from someone as a heads-up. A post from that highly questionable KHF website down in Florida. Sorta funny actually... :) Ray http://hapkidokorea.org/english/user_qna.php John Johnson Writer : Kevin Huston Who is John Johnson and what is his official duty in the KHF? Is it his job to offend Masters in the USA to the point of putting his personal safety on the line? Is his alternative lifestyle relationship with Ray Terry supported by the federation? _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:45:20 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] schools Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all, I have 2 questions please. 1. I have 2 students (mother and daughter) whom are vacationing in London this summer and were curious about area school where they might be welcome to stop in and train while on vacation. They are really enjoying the art of Hapkido and would really like to see how other Hapkido schools run around the world. 2. I have had a summer visitor joining us in class while she was here visiting her aunt and she is hooked on martial arts. She lives in Dorchester Mass. If there are schools anyone could recommend that she investigate upon her return home, I would appreciate having the info to pass on to her. Thanks again, hope to see you all on the 26th to make some new patio and gardening stones. Kat Kelly www.braeswoodmartialart.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11 End of The_Dojang Digest