Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:16:04 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #311 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: (no subject) (Mark Seidel) 2. Salutations at the begin and the end of the lesson in TKD (marc_lio@yahoo.fr) 3. Re:KHF blight (Beungood@aol.com) 4. Question on starting and stopping point for Tae Geuk Poomse (Tom Kennelly) 5. Principles (Rudy Timmerman) 6. ankles (rich hodder) 7. Concern for Hackworth's belt. (michael tomlinson) 8. KHF and politics (Charles Richards) 9. freaks come out (Ellen P) 10. Responding to Bruce (John Johnson) 11. Dobok stuff (Charles Richards) 12. Re: Re: schools (near Dorchester MASS) (Braeswood Martial Arts) 13. Re: Schools in UK (Braeswood Martial Arts) 14. Re: school near Dorchester, MA for Kat (Braeswood Martial Arts) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:32:11 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A sprained ankle that is not allowed to heel will bother you forever; take some time off from sparring. Have your ankle taped properly before you do forms or any other workout. Tiger balm is help as well. Regards Master Mark Seidel The Midtown Academy Martial Arts Program Special Needs and exceptional Child Program USTU/WTF affiliated www.midtownacademy.org -----Original Message----- From: Madden.Matthew [mailto:Matthew.Madden@cic.gc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:21 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Hi, my name is Matt Madden and I had recently signed up for the digest and I have a question concerning rehabilitation after injury.I fought my first wtf tournament 2 months ago and I sprained my ankle in the first round but I went on to take the silver.The sprain was a 3rd degree .I had just started back sparring but it still feels weak in the back of my ankle.Do you know any strenghtening excerices or maybe just with training and time it will heal. Any advice or input will be greatly appreciated. Taekwon Matt --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "marc_lio@yahoo.fr" To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:53:23 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Salutations at the begin and the end of the lesson in TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, I am french and I would like to know what we must say **offically** at the end and the begin of a training in a dojang. In France, it's just Tchalyeut, Kyoné but I know it'sn't correct... Anybody can help me? Sinc yours, ML --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:59:15 -0400 From: Beungood@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:KHF blight Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 7/19/2003 5:02:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Alain: Sorry to hear about your troubles. This is sad. For those that know > you, know that you are an intelligent, educated, very capable and talented > hapkidoin. It is obvious that these people who attacked you and your wife > verbally do not know you. But at the same time it is sad to see my other > friends, such as Bruce and Ray being attacked by a self > appointed leader of > the KHF It's a shame that a fine organization like the KHFis being taken over by a bunch of money grubbers and the Many Fine traditional grandmasters being pushed aside for less than honorable values. My two cents.. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Tom Kennelly" To: "dojang" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:48:46 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Question on starting and stopping point for Tae Geuk Poomse Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I cannot seem to find documentation that clarifies whether the martial artist should return to the Chimbee point at the end of the Poomse. In other words, after the last move of the Poomse does the martial artist move one foot and land back in the same spot they started in when in Chimbee? Is this documented in the Kukkiwon text and I just cannot see it? --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:11:42 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Principles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > Still, I think that we are facing > some point at which standing up to be counted will mean more than just > demonstrating a commercially viable school. Hello Bruce: I could not agree more! IMHO, standing up for one's principles is paramount to being a martial artist, and that is why we MUST give the proper authorities of KHF truthful information on what is going on even though we are not part of KHF. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "rich hodder" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:12:25 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] ankles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Matt, I have a lot of experience with ankle re-hab. contact me personally and I will give you the info that I have Have fun Rich _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:15:37 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Concern for Hackworth's belt. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have seen Hackworth in person and although this is none of my business either I would say that the number one worry I have is for his belts!! Can you imagine the stress that thing is put under everyday? I would hate to have to deal with that belly everyday if I were his belt, my condolences goes out to his belt... be it martial arts, a common brown leather one, etc... they ALL have my sympathies. Maybe he will be promoted to 8th dan suspenders,, I can see them now all embroidered and hooked over his dobok. Haw haw haw! Put that on your radio show fat boy. Mike _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:55:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KHF and politics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> For my money, I advocate that Non-KHF people leave the KHF to clean their own house. Lamentably they will probably do nothing and Fat Wannabee will probably be re-instated as their rep/director/poobah and folks like Alain and Hal will be pressured to go through him for their KHF needs. For the rest of us, rather than compete within an organization with which we have no actual investment I advocate increased action and support for those groups with a proven track record of integrity and fairness. For my part I press for the USKMAF and the NKMAA. The leadership has the best intersts of the membership at heart. Politics is minimalized or marginalized. Service is sincere and quick. But, for me, the most important point is that everything carries a focus of improving the nature of KMA here where we practice. If the art is to continue to thrive this is too important a responsibility to be left in the hands of of purely commecial interests. <> Ray, Bookmark the archives! Bruce and I agree yet again. The KHF will either do it's own damage control or limp along with sucking chest wounds to extinction....I am honored and humbled to say I have trained with and know personally both GM West and SJN Timmerman and consider them great mentors and friends. Both of them are so excited about sharing quality korean martial arts with others, they often overlook themselves. SJN Timmerman almost missed lunch in Jackson helping me and one of my Green Belts learn "soft style" palm strikes we even used several of his bricks without any discussion of compensating him for them. Later several of us pitched in on some bricks, and as promissed he was out in the Clarion parking lot well after dinner time smiling, encouraging and teaching a handful/dozen 1%er's who wanted more. All this before the mega-hour drive back to Canada. Gm West's approach to mentoring can be summed up in a conversation I had with him. I'm paraphrasing, but essentially he relayed that everything he does is focussed on making the practice of korean martial arts better through reaching students through their instructor. His goal in other words is to make me a better instructor, for the benefit of my students. Sounds pretty selfless and polatics free to me :-) Train with Jung Do in your hearts The rest is commentary, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:26:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen P To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] freaks come out Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've come out of lurk mode to vent for a sec :-) Is this the time of year when all the freaks come out? All the guys who've got 'something to prove' or 'want to argue about styles' or better yet, 'want to street brawl with the instructor in the dojang' are coming out in droves all of sudden, I'm going to lose my mind. Yes, I know they're around all the time, but whewwww!!! the number lately has been rising in proportion to other students (or maybe I'm just more aware of it now, who knows). And they're all from other dojangs! Just passing through town with something to prove. Is it a full moon? Martial arts does attract some 'unique' individuals. Things to do when visiting/training at another martial arts school: Be nice. Be humble. Learn something new. Reinforce something already learned. Not too difficult, right? I always feel like an idiot for still being shocked at others' behavior. - Ellen __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "John Johnson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:28:40 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Responding to Bruce Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Bruce, Thank you for your offer, but if that meeting ever occurs, which I doubt it will, I will only deal with the threats and insults Kevin Huston has thrown my way. I have told him twice I would meet with him, but he has not responded to the offer, so I guess that's enough of an answer for me. Since Kevin Huston does not represent Mr. Hackworth, I feel any information presented at such a time would be unfair since Mr. Hackworth would not be present to respond to it. In essence, I am not trying to lead a witch-hunt against Mr. Hackworth. In fact, that is the last thing I want to do. I am merely attempting to help the KHF and do whatever they ask of me. In my opinion, he has the right to respond to the allegations against him. Personally, I have never met Mr. Hackworth and even though there is a lot of negative comments about him and his organization, I do not have an opinion of him (good or bad). To me, he is just another person inside the KHF. My lack of an opinion is because I have never met or trained with him. In fact, other than a message he placed on the Korean language KHF Web site, I have had no communication with him. It seems to have become my responsibility to pass on information and opinions to the KHF about the situation in America. Therefore, if you or anyone else wishes to send me information, I will be happy to collect it. The KHF, I know, is interested in receiving all opinions about the situation in America, whether they are in positive and negative. There’s one more thing I would like to address. Some people (I do not think you are one of them, Bruce!) on this digest have made reference to others in unkindly terms and with direct insults. I do not care for this and I do not condone it. I am not one to tell others how to conduct themselves, but I personally would like to see more professionalism. Thanks again, John >From: >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Question of Support >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:51:07 -0500 (CDT) > >Dear John: > >".....Because of your chosen attitude toward me, I will no longer respond >to >anything you write to me personally or on the Internet, but I will keep >records of it. Since we will both be in Seoul in early August, I invite you >to sit down with myself, Master Lee, Whan-jae (Secretary General of the >KHF), Master Bae, Sung-book (Director of the KHF), Master Choi, Suk-hwan, >or >whoever you want at their convenience. I will show them the insults, >threats, lies and unprofessional attitude you have expressed in your emails >and you can explain to them why you have conducted yourself in such a >manner........" > >It is not my intention to impose myself in your current organizational >troubles, and please know that you have my every sympathy for the ugliness >and irrational things that have gone on. > > For my part I am not a member of your organization (KHF) and probably >have >little place in mentioning my experiences. However, in mentioning your >intention to sit down with leadership in the coming months I am wondering >if there is a place for documentation of similar abuses in your >presentation. As you may be aware I and several others have experienced >similar abuse but are not well-placed to approach KHF leadership with our >material. I am wondering if there is a venue by which we can submitt our >stories (with documentation) in order to support whatever effort are being >made to restore the integrity of the organization? Thank you in advance, >and know that I am excepting of your decision not to use such material >should that be your decision. > >If at all possible it would be a service to me for you to communicate with >me here on the DD. It is my belief that too much damage has already been >done by covert communications and I think others may be encouraged to tell >their stories should they see the open manner with which things are >handled. > >I have also given some consideration to contacting another Net (of Rays' >acquaintance) which has had a history of conflict with the Florida >organization. Perhaps you might consider incoproating their documentation >as well. FWIW. > >Best Wishes, > >Bruce >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:42:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dobok stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Does anyone have a supplier they recommend? I want to stay in the price range of 10-16 bucks for the give away student wt uniforms, 25-30 for the middle wt uniform, and around 90 for the heavy wt 12-14 oz stuff. Of course I want them all to have the longer lapels. The prices I am talking about are of course wholesale, and any company I go with I will need to set up an account with. If location is a factor, I am in North Louisiana. I have looked at Tokaido and Shuriedo, but they are a bit pricy ($150-200 range) <> Dear Charlie, In that price range I like the RheeMax line. I've used them since 1991. During 1996-1998 my business partner liked to use Century because they had a pickup outlet here in Atlanta. That two years just reminded me what better quality and value RheeMax products are. I now own one Adidis (sp?) uniform with the E-bion odor reducing pre-treatment. They must not have tested E-bion on big sweaty north georgia boys, but the quality and fit are good and the uniform is very comfortable for sparring. You might also look at the Adidis Karata uniform line (unfortunately RheeMax will only wholesale me the Adidis V-neck stuff or I would have bought one by now). Their top of the line vented uniform is I think between the cost of Kamakazi and Tokaido. I've looked at Tokaido and Shureido but just can't see giving over $100 wholesale for a uniform. My RheeMax Heavy Weights are almost half that, and last about three years. FWIW my students usually wear out the RheeMax middleweights in two to three years. My youth usually outgrow a uniform in two years before it wears out so no complaints from students with RheeMax middle-weights. Not bad since I charge $30 youth and $35 adult. I suspect SangMooSa might be a cut above RheeMax HVY and less costly than say Tokaido but I haven't found a good wholesale account. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: schools (near Dorchester MASS) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:06:29 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the info Kat --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Schools in UK Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:15:07 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you for the info, I will pass it along Kat --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] school near Dorchester, MA for Kat Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:33:31 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you Denise, I will give her the information when she comes to class this evening. Kat --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11 End of The_Dojang Digest