Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:01:50 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #314 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. You know who's belt. (michael tomlinson) 2. Master Bae (Ray Terry) 3. Re: Salutations at the begining and end of the lesson in TKD (Manuel Maldonado) 4. School near Hamilton NJ (Aloaf@aol.com) 5. Uniform Woes (L. Veuleman) 6. KHF emblem (Dennis McHenry) 7. Re: ITF Split (Dave Steffen) (Dave Steffen) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:14:57 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] You know who's belt. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm sorry for bringing up you know who's belt,, I can't help it I come from very bad upbringing and sometimes my inbreeding rears it's ugly head and I say something that is off color, I apologize to everyone on here and to all the stressed out belts in the world too, hey I can't help it if my family tree doesn't have any branches on it!!! One more for the road:::: Question::::Why does Mike Tyson always cry during sex? Answer:::: Pepper spray will do that to you!!!!! Mike (I'm my own grandpa) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Bae Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yep, I bet Master Bae is getting a ton of email right now. Some of the attacks on others that he is being cc-ed will hopefully open his eyes to what is happening here in the US. Was just reflecting back today while painting my deck... A couple of years ago the KHF was highly regarded here in the US. Now, primarily due to the actions of one Floridian, many here in the US view the KHF in low regard. Sad just how quickly things can turn around due to one rotten egg. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:25:12 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Salutations at the begining and end of the lesson in TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings to all. in my Do-Jang we say" Kukki he te ha yo chariot kyung nae, Kwangjang nim hae kyung nae, Sabomnin hae kyung nae" and at the end we also add a salutation to the Yoo Gup Ja's amoungst themselves with a hand shake. As all of you should already know that I'll be leaving for a 29 day deployment for training with the US ARMY Reserves and once I get back I'll leave for 6 to 8 months I'll continue to check the dojang list as I can if I have access to an internet. Till then be good keep training and be safe. Tae Kwon Mr. Manuel K. Maldonado Ho Do Kwan Tae Kwon-Do Association http;//devoted.to/Taekwondo _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Aloaf@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:33:42 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] School near Hamilton NJ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Just a question guys, Anyone familiar with a good school in or around Hamilton NJ? Thanks Dan O'Boyle Brown Belt TKD --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:36:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "L. Veuleman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Uniform Woes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Melinda, Thank you for the information. The pakistan people do seem to make a good uniform, the Neeron that I got sent to me is super tough. I have also heard good things about Samurai brand, but turned out they were made by the same company in Pakistan. While I can't jump out there and build myself a massive dojang, It does seem getting into uniform supplying is much cheaper. Has anyone done this and been bitten in the behind over it? It is just a thought, no where near the serious stages yet. Would be kinda neat though, don't you think? But wait, you do the same thing Melinda, so does that mean you would send out somebody to break my knees? Business is tough these days you know. Charlie V ************** L. Charles Veuleman - http://www.bluewavekarate.com Natchitoches Karate Institute - Chittim Jordan Tae Kwon Do 318-356-7727 Natchitoches Kustom Inks - Quality Screen Printing 318-332-1676 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:30:26 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dennis McHenry Subject: [The_Dojang] KHF emblem Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anybody know what the deal is with the hand sign on the KHF emblem/logo? I understand Ki Finger, but why is the thumb out too? ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Dave Steffen Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:55:21 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF Split (Dave Steffen) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: Christopher Spiller > > >>I have heard that some who remained with the General > considered Master Choi's election to be > unconstitutional. On what basis they claim that, I > don't know. A more commonly expressed sentiment is > that Master Choi's election was nonsensical; how do > you vote the founder of the art out of office? There > is a larger issue here, conserning some fundamental > conflicts between democratic processes and the way > that martial arts traditionally work.<< > > I agree with you regarding the confluicts between democracy and the > traditional way things in a MA are run. There have been many > threads in the Dojang over the years about this, IIRC (posted by > Bruce Sims, I believe). But as for the question of how can one vote > the founder out of office, it's my understanding that General Choi > was planning on retiring in a few years and wanted Master Choi for > the job. Also, Master Choi refused to run against his father until > the General said he would only serve a couple of years. Indeed; in fact, both GMs Rhee and Hwang supported Master Choi to be the next president, so at one time, everything seemed to be on track for a smooth transition. I don't know what happened. Some say the General said he was going to step down, and then didn't; some indications point to something happening at the top level that Master Choi just couldn't in good concience keep quiet about. > From what I have seen on the ITF website headed by Chang UNg there > are in fact meetings between him and Kim Un Young going on. Not > sure what the upshot will be, but this certainly seems a promising > sign. Indeed; I actually greeted Chang Ung when he arrived at Denver International for his meeting with Dr. Kim. I suspect this will make my security clearance proceedure more interesting: "Have you ever had contact with government officials of other nations?" "Yes - he was North Korean, and I shook his hand"... ;-) > As for the General being the only person able to see a merger > happen, well I am not too sure about that. From what I have seen > (not much, addmitedly) it seemed like the General was not going to > be able to do much in this direction. Especially since there was a > posted note from the WTF Secretary General on the old ITF web site > saying there were no talks about a merger at that point in > time. Again, just my opinion. Well, I had heard that Master Choi would have had problems getting this done - something about him being too young to be taken seriously by other martial artists. Maybe true, I don't know much about Korean culture. From what little I personally know about the man and his abilities, anyone who doesn't take Master Choi seriously is in for a suprise. ;-) > >>However, GM Hwang told me several years before the > split that the North Koreans had offered to give the > ITF a lot of money - to, essentially, sponsor the ITF > in much the same way that the South Korean government > sponsors the WTF - and that the General had turned > them down, because he didn't want the North Koreans to > have undue influence. So, I suspect that there was > agreement bewteen the various high ranking people that > North Korean influence should be avoided.<< > > This is very interesting. In his memoirs the General talks about > the ITF receiving (I think) $600,000 a year from the DPRK. Not too > much to run an international organization, but then again during > the 1980's the ITF were in tight financial straits from what I have > heard. I'm glad more money was turned down, however a half million > dollars is nothing to sneeze at. I'm sure that the ITF got money from North Korea, I'm under the impression they couldn't afford not to; I think the issue was how much say the North Korean government would have in ITF affairs. > >>We are indeed part of KATU, we joined in 1993. I, > too, have a tremendous amount of respect for GM Hwang; > he has taught us incredible things.<< > > Personally, I feel very fortunate to have been able to attend a > couple of seminars with GM Hwang. He is truly an awesome martial > artist. Oh, yeah. [...] > some serious issues with). However, I've just taken a > job that will require a DoD security clearance, and > I'm not sure what impact Mr. Ung's leadership will > have on this. I hate to say it, but it may be the > case that our careers require us to change > affiliations.<< > > I'm sorry for the position you and your instructor are in. This may > become more prominant in the US, but who knows? Frankly, I wish > politics didn't exist in the MA's, but any time there's two people > in a room you have politics. My best wishes to you in the future > and I hope things work out for the best. Thanks. > Ditto for me. It seems to me that the Vienna group's Secretary > General, Tom MacCallum, isn't too fond of Master Choi or Chang > Ung. How much influence this will have is anybody's guess. Master MacCallum is a, um... "controversial" figure. Some say he's an absolutely great guy; others say... otherwise. (He says, choosing his words carefully.) > >>I'm sure that GM Seriff will never unite with any of > the other groups. His loyalty was to General Choi, > and now that the General is gone, I don't think he has > any reason to join other organizations. It will be > very interesting to see what happens to the USTF when > he retires.<< > > I have to agree with you on this one. I can't see GM Sereff joining > up with Chang Ung, and from what I have heard he won't follow > Master Choi. Best bet is the Vienna group, but I imagine the USTF > will remain independent for now. GM Seriff is way too patriotic to accept Mr. Ung, and I have some circumstantial evidence that he had a falling out with the other GM's. I agree, the Vienna group is more likely than the others, but I suspect he's got what he needs here in the US and has little motive to join any of the international groups. > >>For years, I've been quoting the General in my email > sig: > > "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is > that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". > > It's bitterly ironic that the same could be now said > of everyone in the ITF, and that the "ancestor" under > criticism is the General himself.<< > > Hoo boy. IMO that's a very sharp insight. No one's perfect, of > course, but it's disappointing that things weren't more in order > before the General passed on. There may be very good reasons for all this to have happened; I'm just not high up enough (just a lowly 4th Dan) to do more than piece things together from circumstantial evidence. [...] > I do want to thank you for answering my questions the way you did: > professional, not argumentative, etc. Signs that MA training is > time well spent, IMHO. My instructor and I have been through the political wringer more times than I can count; I've long since given up trying to toe anybody's "party line" beyond what I personally believe in. On a larger note, I think the point of martial art training is, among other things, to produce truly adult people. It succeeds every now and then. ;-) TaeKwon! > PS > As a member of the ITF I hope to be able to meet you some time! If you're ever in Colorado, give me a buzz! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Dave Steffen, Ph.D. Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede tkd-physics@comcast.net Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11 End of The_Dojang Digest