Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:20:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #320 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: learning korean (Chris LaCava) 2. RE: Re: Dealing With Politics (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Terminology=3F=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. Re: Re:_Terminology??_ (Jye nigma) 5. GM Rudy Timmerman’s seminar in Houston (Dennis McHenry) 6. Re: Fists and healing (Jye nigma) 7. Re: Jye's Funny Hand (Jye nigma) 8. hapkidokorea.org/english/user_bbs.php (Ray Terry) 9. chest punch results in death, just fyi (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:30:28 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: learning korean Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sara: <> Hi Sara. Check out... http://www.koreasociety.org They may be able to help you out. Hope it helps you out & take care. Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Dealing With Politics Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:08:03 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, You've got some great sentiments here. I am relatively new to exploring the broader Korean Martial Arts community and am just learning the lay of the land. (My base is TKD, but my training time as a student is mostly spent with Takayuki Mikami in New Orleans, Talk about fun 8 hour drives, but that's another story... Master McHenry will tell you I'm a TKD guy in a Japanese Uniform ;) ) You're insight into building versus tearing down is dead on target, and I like your suggestions for positive re-enforcement. Having just met Master Timmerman for first time this weekend, I can honestly say he's a good man and shares very relevant knowledge. I also met some of Master West's students and have no doubt about the caliber of instruction. The whole goal is for everyone to grow, learn and have a good time. Simple concept, but hard to execute sometimes. Regards, Jason E. Thomas Chief Instructor North Austin Taekwondo Club www.natkd.com > -----Original Message----- > From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com [mailto:bsims@midwesthapkido.com] > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:17 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dealing With Politics > > Dear George: > > "......You are correct when you say that these ways have invaded most > facets of our lives, however if enough of us can stand up to these cretins > in any organization ( martial arts, governmental, or even religious) > perhaps we can send them scurrying back under the rocks from whence they > crept......." > > Believe it or not, your simple post really hit me in its stark honesty. > Having spent a Sunday afternoon with Rudy and a great bunch of folks maybe > I am in a good place to say something. > > A common comment made by folks from the Pelligrini camp or the Hackworth > camp is that attacks are made on them by jealous folk who are envious of > their successes. The term "success" is never actually defined, and > activities associated with such "success" are rarely the issue. These two > personalities have been popping up in various discussion groups and > activites for a few years now and I STILL don't know just what it is that > is so incredibly successful about them that anyone would be so heavily > invested in sabotaging their efforts. They are just not all that > important. > The only reason that I see that anyone expends any energy on them at all > is > that they seem to routinely come-up in the same area where defamation, bad > feelings, dirty tricks and antagonism are rife. What I see, in turn,then, > are a lot of people such as a number of DD members shouting "watch it" in > the same manner that a township would put up signs if there were a bad > pothole on an otherwise decent road. > > By comparison, I have yet to come away from an event by JR West or Rudy > Timmerman feeling smug or having gotten the "inside dirt" on someone else. > I don't go home with the idea that what I have just gotten was the "real > deal" and everyone else are deluded saps. Speaking for myself I can tell > you that when I left Rudy's workshop on Sunday I felt not unlike when I > left the last of JR's Internationale-s I attended. I felt up-beat, > informed, supported and included. I saw people, hungry to learn, meeting > up > with people hungry to teach. I saw people from at least four different > disciplines working out together and not a negative feeling in the place. > It was a great experience--- and the cook-out afterwards was ice-ing on > the > cake. > > Now, this isn't intended as an ad for JR West or Rudy Timmermans efforts. > Nobody here has any reason to believe my opinions. My invitation is for > folks to gamble ONE--- just ONE--- event and see if everything people say > about the nature of Rudy's and JR's events aren't all that folks have been > reporting. THEN, when you have done that, what I am about to say will make > a helluva lot more sense. > > It is a fact of life that it takes a lot less effort and energy to destroy > something than to build it up. I think this is why your post carried so > much weight for me, George. Its a fact of life that people can spend years > building something and it can be pulled down so easily by defamation and > chaos. My guess is that this why people like Hackworth use this arguement > so much. People fear most the weapon they use most. And since we as Humans > only have so much energy to live on, I think we tend to try to maximize > the > use of that energy by going with the natural tendency of the Universe > towards spoiling and chaos. In this way we work to tear others down faster > than they can tear us down. > > But..... > > what if instead of tearing down the Hackworths in the KMA World, we re- > double our efforts to raise up and get behind the framworks of people we > admire. I know that at first glance this would not seem to be as > satisfying > a fight. The Wannabees will still be out there selling their ersatz > material as though it were the real thing. But, we wouldn't be able to > stop > them anyhow. It IS after all a free world. Still, by getting behind folks > who have put their actions where their philosophies are, we guarentee THAT > approach will outlive crass commecial concerns. For instance, in our > hearts > we all know that JR and Rudy aren't going to live forever. We also know > that they weakest part of the MA traditions is the point at which > leadership changes hands. Just a simple matter of identifying leaders in > the KMA community and supporting the decisions in this matter as such > leaders as JR and Rudy shape it now could have incredible consequences ten > years down the pike. True, such efforts would not carry the high drama as > e- > mail duels on an international Net, but, there is every reason to believe > that the results may be much more far reaching. > > I completely agree with what you shared, George. I add only that maybe > selcting a direction may wind up having a much greater impact on the > future > than simply deciding when and where to take a stand. FWIW. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:08:56 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Terminology=3F=3F_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jye: ".....Yes Pheonix eye is the fist and a particular style of kung fu. It actually looks similar to when you're holding a gun squeezing the trigger....." I think this is where we get into different terms for different techniques in different arts. In Chinese boxing I had always thought that a Phoenix Eye fist was the equivalent of what we call in YON MU KWAN Hapkido "middle knuckle strike". The knuckle of the "social finger" is extended out beyond the fist and supported by the finger on either side and the finger tip is pressed against the inside of the palm by the thumb. Anybody whose given "nuggies" to a little kid in grade school probably remembers this technique. We also have a "single knuckle strike" which is the knuckle of the index finger protruding forward. I have also seen a strike which looks like a bad fist doubled-up with the knuckle of the thumb protruding out the side. I have been told that the strike is executed something like a "ridgehand strike" (ie. with a lateral motion). However, I have tried a few into a striking pad and don't think I would care to wager which surface would give first --- my thumb or the intended target---- in an application. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:16:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:_Terminology??_ To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bruce Dragon fist is the fist made by sticking out the middle finger knuckle, Pheonix eye fist is the pointing finger knuckle, and if I'm not mistaken the fist with the thumb knuckle sticking out is ox fist or something like that. Jye --- bsims@midwesthapkido.com wrote: > Dear Jye: > I think this is where we get into different terms > for different techniques > in different arts. > > In Chinese boxing I had always thought that a > Phoenix Eye fist was the > equivalent of what we call in YON MU KWAN Hapkido > "middle knuckle strike". > The knuckle of the "social finger" is extended out > beyond the fist and > supported by the finger on either side and the > finger tip is pressed > against the inside of the palm by the thumb. Anybody > whose given "nuggies" > to a little kid in grade school probably remembers > this technique. > > We also have a "single knuckle strike" which is the > knuckle of the index > finger protruding forward. I have also seen a strike > which looks like a bad > fist doubled-up with the knuckle of the thumb > protruding out the side. I > have been told that the strike is executed something > like a "ridgehand > strike" (ie. with a lateral motion). However, I have > tried a few into a > striking pad and don't think I would care to wager > which surface would give > first --- my thumb or the intended target---- in an > application. FWIW. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:24:27 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dennis McHenry Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Rudy Timmerman’s seminar in Houston Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I’m not sure what I can say to add to the previous comments about what a great time we had. Ms. Kat Kelly is an excellent host with nice facilities. I enjoyed working out with her students as well as Master Thomas’, and even one of GM JR West’s students came all the way from Mississippi to have fun with us (happy birthday Chappell!). I always enjoy learning from GM Timmerman, who does an excellent job along with his senior instructors Master Keatley & Master Janisse. Mr. Keith Wicker and Master Jason Thomas also shared some of their expertise that the students seemed to enjoy as well. I was so sore ALL over the next day and am still sore here and there. Not only was the seminar an enjoyable experience, but so was the camaraderie afterwards. Now I’ll just have to work on that ‘soft’??!! break that Masters Keatley & Janisse made look so easy on that cement brick… Mac ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:40:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Fists and healing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There are books you can get on dim mak by James Lacy and Earl Montague (sp?) but actually if you're studying meridians, pressure points, nerve cavities, etc. You all ready possess some of the knowledge. Not going into great detail on here, but take the correct way to heal and do the opposite and now you have what you're looking for. The only difference is angles of attack and the time tables of the peak of each internal organ which you already know, also knowledge of the five elements which you know also. Jye --- Charles Richards wrote: > <> > Charles you are actually correct. different points > when pressed or struck with certain amounts of > pressure at certain angles can be used for negative > reasons. In fact Dim Mak is simply the same method > used in accupressure/accupuncture but used in the > opposite manner. > <> > > OK you caught me, I have been using Shiatsu in my > intuitive massage for > years and am just recently (over the last 5-7 years) > been learning the > harm part of various tsubo. If you know of any good > resources on Dim > Mak and better yet Dim Mak and healing discussed in > balance please > forward on or off list. > > Yours in jung do, > > Charles Richards > www.mojakwan.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:48:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Jye's Funny Hand To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That is called crane's beak. Jye --- John Wallace wrote: > What's the one called where the tips of all five > digits are brought > together, forming a sort of cone shape for the hand? > I imagine its for > pressure point striking, as you surely cannot exert > much physical force with > it > > -John W. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkidokorea.org/english/user_bbs.php Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Check out the sillyness going on at http://hapkidokorea.org/english/user_bbs.php Amazing that any HKD person, even someone like chubby wannabe, would want to make the KHF look bad by posting the messages he does to the real KHF website. This really makes the KHF look bad... Sad... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] chest punch results in death, just fyi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 'Game' of punches kills S.J. boy, 16 FRIEND JAILED IN INVOLUNTARY-MANSLAUGHTER PROBE By Lisa M. Krieger Mercury News Mon, Jul. 28, 2003 A test of manhood between friends turned tragic early Sunday morning when a blow to the chest killed Jacob Salas, 16, at his home in San Jose. Jacob and Richard Jimenez, 19, were playing what youths and police say is a popular game among some teens called ``open chest,'' in which friends take turns exchanging blows to each other's chest to see who is toughest. ``It's viewed as a test of manhood,'' said San Jose police Sgt. Steve Dixon. ``It's assumed that nobody will get hurt.'' A punch felled Jacob, who instantly lost consciousness. Jimenez and friends tried to revive him, without success. ``He stopped breathing and his pulse stopped,'' said Jacob's 14-year-old sister, Anita. ``Then his pulse came back a couple seconds, then went away. Then he turned blue. We were yelling at him, `Jacob! We love you! We love you, don't do this!' '' Jimenez, of San Jose, became frightened and fled before paramedics arrived. He sought refuge at the family home of his girlfriend, Alma Barragan, 16, of East San Jose. ``I woke up and heard him wailing in our bathroom, just crying and crying,'' said Eliza Barragan, Alma's mother. ``He was hyperventilating and couldn't talk, couldn't tell me what was the matter. I prayed with him and he calmed down. He was so scared.'' Police found Jimenez at 5:30 a.m. Sunday, hiding in a closet. He was booked into Santa Clara County Jail for investigation of involuntary manslaughter and is being held in lieu of $200,000 bail. He is expected to be arraigned Wednesday afternoon. Heart rhythm Sudden death from a blunt blow to the chest is rare, but not unheard of, according to research by pediatric cardiologist Steven M. Yabek of Pediatric Cardiology Associates of New Mexico. Although no cause of death has yet been declared for Jacob, similar symptoms are linked to a condition called ``commotio cordis.'' It most commonly involves impact to the chest wall from a baseball, hockey puck, softball, lacrosse ball or karate chop, according to Yabek. Although the injury is not well-understood, it is thought that a strong impact to the chest causes the heart to lose rhythm. Jacob, the family's eldest child, had just completed summer school at Andrew Hill High School and had plans for a career as a rap musician, said his father, also named Jacob. ``He had CDs of all kinds with a lot of beat,'' said the father, who is a musician. The teenager's mother, Rebecca Salas, said her son had been placed on probation for fighting in school last year, spent some time in juvenile hall and was taking court-ordered classes on anger management. She said he spent time with older men whom she called ``a bad influence'' on her son; sometimes, she said, they supplied him with cigarettes. But things were looking up, Rebecca Salas said. ``He had goals. He wanted to change. He was ready to change.'' His friend's life also seemed to be taking a turn for the better, said Eliza Barragan of Jimenez. ``I can't say a single bad thing about Richard,'' said Barragan. ``He helps us vacuum, wash dishes, clean the rooms. I'm like a second mother to him because he has nobody.'' She said Jimenez's father is in prison, and his mother has not been located since the incident. Jimenez suffered a severe head injury at age 2, Barragan said, and has some mental disability. She said he did not graduate from high school and works intermittently at a Cupertino moving company. Jail spokesman Mark Cursi said Jimenez was interviewed by medical personnel at the jail and they decided to place him in the mental health unit with orders for someone to check on him every 15 minutes. It was not an angry fight that killed her brother, said Anita Salas. Around midnight, the two young men were home alone with a handful of friends at the Salas' tidy Senter Road home. They were drinking beer. Jacob's father, who works two jobs to support the family, was playing bass guitar with his band Grupo Fuerza Unida at a nearby nightclub. Rebecca Salas, divorced from Jacob's father, lives and works in Merced County. ``They said, `Want to go out and do `body shots?' '' recalled his sister. The game ``body shots,'' like ``open chest,'' involves youths taking turns punching each other. Physically, the two friends were a good match. Jacob, who stood 5 feet 3 inches tall and weighed 150 pounds, was strong and healthy, said his sister. Jimenez, she said, is about the same size. Second punch Out in the front yard, Jacob and Jimenez exchanged at least one blow each. Jimenez told Barragan that Jacob collapsed after being struck in the chest the second time. ``He was saying, `I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Jacob, don't do this,' '' said Anita Salas of the scene she witnessed. ``They were friends.'' Jacob's girlfriend, Angelina Alcala, 17, knows cardiopulmonary resuscitation and tried to revive him. Anita Salas called 911, then her father. ``They put him on a stretcher,'' said Anita Salas. ``But I knew it was bad because they didn't put the siren on.'' By the time the victim's father arrived home, his son already had been taken to Santa Teresa Kaiser Hospital, where he was declared dead. Jacob's teenage friends aren't mad at Jimenez. ``It was a `homie' game,'' said Bernadette Alcala, 14, of San Jose. ```We were friends. We all kicked back together. We miss them. There's nothing worse than losing a homie.'' But they want him to apologize to Jacob's parents. ``He needs to say he's sorry,'' said Bernadette. Said a grieving Anita Salas: ``People should think before they act. Be careful. Think about it.'' --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest