Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:41:04 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #322 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Thumbs and things... (Stovall, Craig) 2. Re: Re: KHF BBS (Ray Terry) 3. Re: Thumbs and things... (Jye nigma) 4. Re: TKD Guy and Single Knuckle follow up (Jye nigma) 5. Making Middle Knuckle Fist (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 6. Dragon Fists and Nigerian Bank Scams (Burdick, Dakin R) 7. "Funny Hand Techniques" (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 8. "Funny Hands and Fists" (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Calling_All_Participants_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. Re: Master Hodder (J.R. West) 11. Take care everyone (Manuel Maldonado) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:43:16 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thumbs and things... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Speaking of thumbs...remember the scene from 'The Presidio' where Sean Connery beats up a rather burly looking character actor using nothing but his thumb? The only reason I bring it up is because that scene was supposedly choreographed by Bong Soo Han. Is that a common method of striking taught in most Hapkido curriculums? Any comments as to the effectiveness of such a strike? Anybody? <<>> Speaking of crane's beak...that always seemed like a good way to put an eye out. Assuming they're nice enough to set still. Also, isn't there another strike that uses a similar hand position? You make the same hand position, but curl your hand forward like you're trying to touch your palm to the inside of your forearm...the striking surface is the outside area of your wrist right above the back of your hand. Isn't that called ox jaw, or something similar? That always seemed like a good alternative to the back fist to me, especially if the head was considered a target. I've seen that movement in various Chinese and Okinawan systems, but didn't know if it was incorporated into any Korean styles. Thoughts? Opinions? CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: KHF BBS To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... Any suggestions would be appreciated. How about a weight limit on those wishing to post? Ray "Just kidding" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:20:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Thumbs and things... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes that is known in some arts as the chicken wrist...in shaolin it is of course reverse crane's beak, and dead hand. The crane's beak strikes vulnerable areas of the body, i.e., eyes, throat, testicles, pressure points, etc. The reverse crane's beak uses the wrist to deliver strikes to places like the nose, ribs, temples, etc. Jye --- "Stovall, Craig" wrote: > Speaking of crane's beak...that always seemed like a > good way to put an eye > out. Assuming they're nice enough to set still. > Also, isn't there another > strike that uses a similar hand position? You make > the same hand position, > but curl your hand forward like you're trying to > touch your palm to the > inside of your forearm...the striking surface is the > outside area of your > wrist right above the back of your hand. Isn't that > called ox jaw, or > something similar? That always seemed like a good > alternative to the back > fist to me, especially if the head was considered a > target. I've seen that > movement in various Chinese and Okinawan systems, > but didn't know if it was > incorporated into any Korean styles. Thoughts? > Opinions? > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This email transmission contains privileged and > confidential information > intended only for the use of the individual or > entities named above. If > this email was received in error or if read by a > party which is not the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, > disclosure, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this > communication in error or are unsure > whether it contains confidential or privileged > information, please > immediately notify us by email or telephone. You > are instructed to destroy > any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, > which you may have of > this communication if you are not the intended > recipient. Receipt of this > communication by any party shall not be deemed a > waiver of any legal > privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege > may relate to the sender. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:56:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] TKD Guy and Single Knuckle follow up To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net --- "L. Veuleman" wrote: I have also seen a strike which looks like a bad fist doubled-up with the knuckle of the thumb protruding out the side. I This actual fist can be used against the throat or various points in the neck along the center line or certain meridians. > Our system head, Dr. David Jordan, is known to punch > with his thumb knuckle locked on the side of his > fist instead of the bottom. Many chinese systems make a fist like that also. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:03:19 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Making Middle Knuckle Fist Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Anthony, >From a technical standpoint, making the center knuckle fist only differs from making a regular fist in the element of timing. Instead of closing all your fingers simultaneously as with a regular fist, just wait an instant before beginning closing the middle finger. You should find this deforms the fist into a middle knuckle fist quite effectively with some practice. Good Practice! Danny Dunn <<<<<< For those of you who actively practice using this technique, is there a way to practice forming it so that you can do it correctly on the fly? When I read Dakin's response I imagined that he formed the fist by extending the "social knuckle" and holding it in place with the thumb. It seems too awkward to form the fist with the index and ring fingers supporting the middle finger if you have to "just do it".>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:09:48 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Dragon Fists and Nigerian Bank Scams Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Anthony Boyd asked re: Dragon fist: >When I read Dakin's response I imagined that he formed the fist by extending the "social knuckle" and holding it in place with the thumb. It seems too awkward to form the fist with the index and ring fingers supporting the middle finger if you have to "just do it". Nope. That's exactly how I did it. And you're right, it seemed too awkward to me until I actually did it. Charlie Veuleman wrote: >Our system head, Dr. David Jordan, is known to punch with his thumb knuckle locked on the side of his fist instead of the bottom. I had a friend do this for a long time, but it is not too hard to have your thumb jammed while doing this. And it hurts. Bruce Sim mentioned striking with the extended thumb and didn't seem to like it. I use that strike and like it, but my thumb is a little tiny sausage so it doesn't extend much. It is great for striking pressure points and digging in. For examples of the technique, see the movies "Shogun" (the part where the Pilot is forced to take a bath) and "Presidio" (Sean Connery says "I'm only going to use my left thumb, because my right is far too powerful" or words to that effect). Randall Sexton wrote: >I get 2-3 email scams from Nigerian idiots every day. Here's what the IU Knowledge Base (http://kb.indiana.edu/data/afvn.html?cust=512536.09961.30 ) recommends for that: "A very common type of e-mail fraud is advance fee fraud schemes. The perpetrators of advance fee fraud (sometimes referred to as Nigerian bank scams or foreign bank scams) are often very creative and innovative. This fraud is also called 4-1-9 fraud after the section of the Nigerian penal code that addresses fraud schemes. Nigerian nationals, purporting to be officials of government or banking institutions, will fax or e-mail letters to individuals and businesses in the US and other countries. The correspondence states that a reputable foreign company or individual is needed for the deposit of an overpayment on a procurement contract. Some variations of this scheme have the son or daughter of a murdered official plead for your assistance in depositing an inheritance in a US bank. While it might seem that no one would enter such an obviously suspicious relationship, many victims have been enticed into believing they can share in such windfall profits. Individuals are asked to provide funds to cover various fees, and also asked for personal identifiers such as Social Security numbers, bank account numbers, and other similar data. Once this information is received, the victims find that they have lost large sums of money. It is hard to pinpoint how much has been lost in these scams since many victims do not report their losses to authorities due to fear or embarrassment. If you receive this type of message, you may report it to the US Secret Service for their ongoing investigation of this type of fraud. More information about this kind of fraud is available at the Secret Service Web site at: http://www.secretservice.gov/alert419.shtml To report this message to the Secret Service, enable the full headers and send the full headers with the original message to 419.fcd@usss.treas.gov ." Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:20:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] "Funny Hand Techniques" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John, I have heard this most often refered to as "chicken's beak" by Koreans. It is used as you surmise, and primarily to the eye. <> --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:31:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] "Funny Hands and Fists" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John, I have most often seen and heard this referred to as "Chicken Beak" by Koreans. That is what we call it. It is most commonly used to attack the eye. Though I most often use it to my daughter ribs to goose her into a laughing frenzy until she begs for mercy. Danny Dunn <<<<>>>> Charlie, This is a fairly common fist variation that seems to have developed here in the US. I know lots of American Freestyle guys that use it. Danny Dunn <<>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:37:16 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Calling_All_Participants_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: ".....I'm green with envy for all yall Texans......" I apologize for hi-jacking your post however I think you will forgive me when I mention the purpose. Quite recently Rudy has done a series of presentations beginning with the Toledo, OH gathering and ending this last weekend with the Sunday Seminar at the MA center in Downers Grove, Ill, just outside of Chicago. It was a great time and I am sure that all of these events were wonderful experiences in their own right. Jeremy Talbott has provided me with pics (and a pretty good write-up on the DD) to cover the last Seminar. I am taking this opportunity to ask if folks from each of the previous seminars including Toledo, Houston (and I think I am overlooking one) would identify someone who could work with me in a write-up for TKDT. I am not sure about the cut-off for publishing but if each event could have a couple of paragraphes and a couple of pictures I think we could put together a really nice presentation. People need to see what dedication looks like when its is converted into action, yes? Kat? Kevin? Dennis? You all have my address--- afterall it IS posted right above. Please let me hear from you ASAP. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:45:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Hodder Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KJN Timmerman said: " I wish Master Hodder a speedy recovery. Your body might not have been there, but we definitely know you were there in spirit. Your students represented you well. Master Hodder has survived his knee surgery that took place this morning and is recovering as we speak at my home in Jackson. The operation was done by Dr. Audrey Tsao, a name familiar to all who come to Jackson to visit or attend seminars and even to some at locations where Dr. Tsao was part of our "road crew". Master Hodder is doing as well or better than expected and will return to his school in TX on Saturday. I refused to let him come to my dojang tonight even though he felt like he was up for it (sort of)...what a trooper! He is keeping up with the DD and other email while recuperating..... J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:18:50 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Take care everyone Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just want to tell all of you on the list that I'm leaving for Ft. Lewis WA tomorrow for 29 Days so I may be unreachable for a while, if I have a chance I'll check my e-mail but I'm not sure if I can. As many of you know I'm in the US ARMY Reserves so I'm being deployed and I just wanted to say bye and take care. Mr. Manuel K. Maldonado _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest