Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:44:05 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #335 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Zheng gu shui (R. Banham) 2. Zheng gu shui (R. Banham) 3. Displaying Flags? (Lasich, Mark D.) 4. Re: Zheng gu shui (Ray Terry) 5. Ki strike (Wayne Watkins) 6. Pressure Point knock outs (Charles Richards) 7. zheng gu shui (R. Banham) 8. Ki Stikes (rich hodder) 9. Inert vs. Active (Ray Terry) 10. Doping control (Oludipe O. Tolulope) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "R. Banham" To: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:41:41 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Zheng gu shui Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Why do you "doubt" it helps in bonesetting? It comes from a medical system which is over 2000 years old, compared to the 200 years of our western medical model. The western world, particularly the medical portion of it, doesn't have a huge amount of knowledge or wisdom yet! Bob Banham --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "R. Banham" To: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:50:03 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Zheng gu shui Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For those of you who are serious about obtaining zheng gu shui, there are several places you can get it on the net. Try http://www.superfoots.com/zhenggushui.html . This is Bill Wallace's website and I know he uses it. Bob Banham --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:58:50 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Displaying Flags? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just thumbed through TKD Times and I am once again dismayed at the number of photographs that show the display of the American and/or Korean flags hanging incorrectly! Unless I have misunderstood something, here are the guidelines as I remember them: American Flag Blue star field is ALWAYS on the upper left, whether hung portrait, or landscape Korean Flag Red is on Top, hung landscape Red is on Right, hung portrait Now the hard part: who is to tell someone they have one or both of the flags hanging incorrectly - the interviewer, photographer, TKD Times, The Dojang Digest, some guy off the street, a gup, dan, Master, nobody??? With the arts so rich in history and tradition, it would be nice if we could all pay attention to this one simple detail! In the spirit, Mark (landscape) a r k (portrait) --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Zheng gu shui To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 06:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Why do you "doubt" it helps in bonesetting? Two things. One, common sense. Two, because even the Chinese system does not claim it sets broken bones. It is used for bruising, swelling, minor aches and pains. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:25:44 -0500 From: "Wayne Watkins" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Ki strike Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The question was asked if the Ki strike in the video clip at http://www.hapkido.com/Dr_T_naps.AVI was real and if it really worked. I was there, it was real, and it really has that effect. When I was first training with Master West years ago I saw this technique and like most people thought it was fake. Then one fateful night when I was a blue belt I suddenly felt a slight "tap" on my neck. Everything went black and I slumped to my knees where someone grabbed the back of my uniform and kept me from falling on face. I could hear the laughter and conversation going on around me but the rest of my body would not work until a revival technique was done to me. Now this lasted only a few seconds and I do not know how long it would have taken me to recover on my own. There was no pain from the strike because it was truly only a tap. Could I do this technique as a blue belt? No. It takes years to develop and use Ki. I have now done this technique several time in demos but not until I had gotten my 3rd dan. Now the Sean Cravens story. Sean was a 5th degree TeaKwonDo player from Colorado. Great player and great guy, and built like a pro linebacker. He was down at a seminar about 7 or 8 years ago and participated in one of the sessions Master West did on Palm strikes. When the session was over he approached Master West and told him that he felt that he wanted to really feel a good palm strike so that he could relate the feeling to his students. He kept on and on until Master West finally agreed to give him a "40 percenter" palm strike in the chest. Master West told Sean to get ready and to brace himself as much as possible. Sean said he was ready and Master West fulfilled Sean's wish. Sean staggered back about 8 to 10 feet and collapsed to his knees. While everyone was laughing Master West walked over to check on Sean and make sure he was OK. He wasn't. He had stopped breathing. Master West did a revival technique and Sean came to somewhat but still wasn't breathing. Master West then started telling Sean to inhale and exhale. This worked but when Master West stopped telling Sean to breath the breathing would stop. This went on for several minutes until Sean would finally breath on his own. This was the last time I have ever seen Master West give anyone, that is not one of his students, a "40 percenter." Now that I have written my "Bruce" length message I am going back in lurk mode. Hope to see all of ya'll September 12-14 in Jackson at he seminar. Wayne Watkins Director Technical & Career Ed. Holmes Community College / Ridgeland 412 West Ridgeland Ave. Ridgeland, MS 39157 1-601-605-3313 wwatkins@holmescc.edu --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pressure Point knock outs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> The strike was real, although limited in the amount of "force" used, but the effects seen were 100% genuine. .................................If it was real, what effects were experienced by the poor gent who volunteered to be the victim? He went to sleep instantly and woke up a second or two later albeit a bit unaware of his surroundings and VERY groggy. .................................I watched the clip a few times and it looks like GM West has every confidence that the 'attacker' is going to go down for the count. If this was scripted for the purposes of demonstration then that certainty is easily understandable. If it was performed for real,what signs were visible to GM West that the strike was effective before the attacker' keeled over? After doing this technique and its' many cousins for almost 40 years I have a pretty good idea of what will happen and I guess I do have a certain confidence that either this will have the desired effect or I will be able come up with something else that would be equally as uncomfortable in very short time. The instant that contact is made, it is VERY visible in the eyes of the attacker that that there is absolutely no-one home, and they are always out prior to hitting the floor. Perhaps some member of the DD will relate to you about the 5th Dan gentleman from CO that during the closing of a Jackson seminar some years ago, insisted I hit him with a strike such as this to prove to him that it was real, and he stopped breathing in the middle of the dojang floor, even though the strike was as mild as the one you witnessed in the clip and placed on his torso. <> Adding on, Yes it was real and I was there watching in Jackson and have seen it before. Some big dumb 4th dan from jorja also asked GM West to knock him out so he could experience it first hand and GM West declined. He had very good and logical reasons. He reminded me that he and I had not trained together on an ongoing basis and he was not as familiar with me and by body type, etc. so it might be unsafe to "experiment with me." Now in the case of Dr. T. GM West has been encouraging Dr. T. to investigate the matt for a decade and a half so I'm sure he can safely moderate his level of force to yield a "went to sleep instantly and woke up a second or two later albeit a bit unaware of his surroundings and VERY groggy" versus a "he stopped breathing in the middle of the dojang floor, even though the strike was as mild " with someone you don't know. I will be bringing my favorite Dojang mutant to Jackson this September. So for those of us that are expanding our training with pressure points remember. Pick a good Dojang Dummy and learn their limits well, always moderate your force with a reusable partner, etc. So far, I am still limiting my force to "the knees buckle and there is a brief Doe in the headlights look," but haven't really knocked out any of my students. Just a reminder to train safe and wise. When I get to "doing this technique and its' many cousins for almost 40 years" I might consider adding a little more force :-) BTW thanks to Jye, and for others following our thread on Meridians the spelling is Erle Montaigue and several of his books are available from amazon Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "R. Banham" To: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:55:11 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] zheng gu shui Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The active ingredients in zheng gu shui are croton (18%), cinnamon (15%), angelica (13%), moghania (12%), inula cappa (12%) pseudo ginseng (25%) as well as menthol (3%) and camphor (2%). As you can see, menthol and camphor make up only 5% of the formula and are present mainly to warm the tissues and make them more receptive to the active components. The other ingredients assist cell regeneration, help dispel blood and fluid stagnation, and invigorate the circulation. While on the subject of traditional healing methods dismissed by western medicine, another useful technique is "gwa sha". GM West has seen me use gwa sha some years ago at his school in Jackson. If you want to know more, go to my site http://www.nskma.co.uk/Traditional%20Healing/gwa%20sha.htm Bob Banham --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "rich hodder" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:00:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ki Stikes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master West mentioned a certain 5th Dan from Colorado taking a ki strike to the chest at a seminar a few years back. I was sitting right next to him when he asked to be hit. This sounds silly but Master Cavins is just that way, he likes to experience things so he can say they work. Master Cavins has been one of my best friends for nearly 20 years, he is about 50 now and about 45 then, he is in fantastic physical condition, and quite honestly I have never seen anyone put him on the floor. Well up goes his hand, he stands up and readies himself, takes the shot.....it was as if time stopped, he took about 2 steps backward and collapsed right in front of me. Melted just like the wicked witch. He was completely unaware of his surroundings and we had to keep telling him to breathe, it seemed as though he forgot how. The really funny part about that was that when we did a seminar In Colorado, his students wanted to see this in person, since they too had never seen anyone knock Master Cavins out. He stood right back up and took another one. Amazing. Same result, but a 10,000 ft of elevation it is harder to get your breath back. What was of most interest was the absolute ease and fluidity of movement that Master West was able to accomplish this feat. I was also there when Dr Tavossoli took the shot in the neck, believe me, no acting involved. The USKMAF is having their next seminar September 12-13-14, plan to come down and experience ki strikes for yourself, just don't eat a lot for lunch before hand. Have fun, RichGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Inert vs. Active Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The active ingredients in zheng gu shui are croton (18%), cinnamon (15%), > angelica (13%), moghania (12%), inula cappa (12%) pseudo ginseng (25%) as well > as menthol (3%) and camphor (2%). As you can see, menthol and camphor make up > only 5% of the formula and are present mainly to warm the tissues and make > them more receptive to the active components. The other ingredients assist > cell regeneration, help dispel blood and fluid stagnation, and invigorate the > circulation. In the above you provide one recipe for zgs giving that recipe's complete list of ingredients. There are active ingredients and inert ingredients. Menthol (3%) and Camphor (3% in my recipe) are the active ingredients. The remainder are considered to be inert ingredients. But even some inert ingredients are chemically or biologically active that may cause health and environmental problems. Revisiting the initial thread... I have not said that eastern medicine isn't for real or that the herbs/recipes suggested are worthless. Using DDJ or ZGS for relief of minor aches and pains or to help with bruising is one thing. I use them and they have helped, in some insteances. But, and a big but, they will not cure arthritis or fix broken bones or make the average patient's boobs grow larger. At least in that latter case, I certainly hope not... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:58:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Oludipe O. Tolulope" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Doping control Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hullo class, I was given a printout on WTF Regulations for Doping Control by my KwanJangNim, GM Emmanuel Ikpeme, & I came across article 8 sub-section 6 "Throughout the doping control procedure, no photographes may be taken". Why is this? Considering the gravity of the implications and penalty(ies) metted out to those who fail the test, I think the procedure should in fact be video taped! Afterall, article 10 sub-section 2 says "... The athlete may be present or be represented during analysis of the B-sample". Or has the law been revised? Anyone know a link to where I can view the updated version? ALSO... Will having my highly aromatic, mouth watering, stomach relaxing etc, etc cup of coffee b4 competition sink me in a dope test? YeeDan Tolu. Nigeria. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest