Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 03:01:49 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #348 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Invitation to Jackson/Registration/Fees (Wilson, Byron) 2. Mr. Kim, Sang-Cook (Chris LaCava) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Promotion_Thoughts?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Garrison_Thoughts?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Master Garrison holds a 9th Dan Black Belt etc... (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 6. Considerations (Ray Terry) 7. Fighting Fans (Erik Hanson) 8. Re: Invitation to Jackson/Registration/Fees (Braeswood Martial Arts) 9. Pan American Games Results to Date (Ray Terry) 10. GM Ranks (Jonathan Payne) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:26:57 -0400 From: "Wilson, Byron" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Invitation to Jackson/Registration/Fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If I am able to make a trip from Columbus, Ohio to Jackson, how would one finagle an invitation to the Jackson Seminar? What are the fees and how do you register. MOST IMPORTANTLY, is it useful for someone who is just beginning HKD? Byron Wilson [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Chris LaCava" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:16:00 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Kim, Sang-Cook Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the discussion of Mr Garrison it has been said that Mr. Kim, Sang-Cook is his teacher. Would someone please post some information about Mr. Kim? Thank you. Chris "from CT" LaCava's Martial Arts Westport, CT. http://lmaa.bravepages.com Online Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:11:09 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Promotion_Thoughts?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Danny: ".....But I have never heard of anyone "negotiating a test" with their GM. I have always been asked by my instructors to test when they thought I was ready. Can you explain the "negotiating my test"?....." Most of the time, when folks get promoted, I suspect that the venue is pretty standard. After a period of time the student is advised that the next test is coming up, the GM comes to town and folks gather to be assessed. Folks don't usually fail these things because the local instructor has been grooming them as to what is expected. In the case of testing for a 4th Dan its a bit more involved, especially when its a matter of flying in GM from California, addressing his health problems, considering what material he expects to focus on and so forth. In my own case, I have also asked to have my material reviewed by other individuals in the Hapkido community as a way of contributing additional veracity to the process. It has become a growing trend in the Hapkido arts that folks can get promoted for essentially passing the appropriate fees to the designated personality and collecting their cert. I have issues with that and the only counter-measure I know is to have my skills viewed by my peers for their comments. Pulling all of this together is what I mean when I say "negotiating my test." There is one other point that goes along with this as well. It can seem a bit narcissistic to be continually drawing attention to this process, and I understand perfectly if folks might draw this conclusion. On the other hand I have known folks to show up at this or that event sporting a new BB and identifying themselves with a new rank as though it sort of "appeared" out of nowhere. Seems like most of the time it DID appear--- in their mailbox secondary to a sizable reduction in their checking account. For all the times that we have talked about this happening here on the DD Net, I would like to model what I think is a better way to do such things. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:31:14 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Garrison_Thoughts?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jeff: ".....If you think Mr. Garrison is interested in "commercial success" you are really showing your lack of knowledge of him and WOMAF. If you think that "selling out" means putting your own money into your school and organization for the past 25 years at the expense of retiring early, losing money on seminars and having to ask students to help organize garage sales to generate some income for school purchases than I guess he is a sell-out. I'm damn glad to have been his student for 17 years and I guess that makes me a sell-out too......" I whole-heartedly support your loyalty to Mr. Garrison and am glad that you have been able to develop a relationship with him and support his way of doing things. What I originally pointed out in my first post, however, seems to be exactly what is coming to pass. The point that I made in my original post was that I didn't think it was a good idea to ask folks on the DD Net for their opinions of particular personalities. Its too bad that we can't have open discussion of such things as comparative teaching styles and motives and such, but I have never seen such discussions do anything but escalate into vitriolic exchanges. I sorta see the same thing happening here. Fact is, Jeff, Mr. Garrison meets a need for you and you have found a place with him and THAT is something very valuable that not everyone will find in their KMA studies. Now the fact is that you communicating with someone who didn't think much of GM Jis' teaching, GM Seo's administrative skills, GM Lees' academic skills and so forth. However, you will notice that in each case, rather than discuss such issues, things got real personal, real fast. I don't even want to go into the whole morass regarding the folks from Florida, but its no secret how ugly all of that has gotten. Still, its my considered opinion that failing to be able to discuss such things as is one of the places where I think we need to consider what service a venue like the DD can perform for us. Craig mentioned two "tunnels of reality", and I wonder if it is not possible to reconcile such views for the KMA community here. Now, as far as specifics go, Ray asked some questions regarding Mr. Garrisons' background. For my part, perhaps it would enlightening to hear how he came to leave Aikido studies and take up Hapkido. I just can't help but feel that it might be possible to exchange information on these subjects without things devolving into exchanges that include perjoratives like "sell-out". FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:22:18 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, rterry@idiom.com CC: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Garrison holds a 9th Dan Black Belt etc... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have seen the messages on GM James R. Garrison and visited his web site. His web site states that Master Garrison holds a 9th Dan Black Belt in Hapkido, 8th Dan Black Belt in Jujitsu, 7th Dan Black Belt in TaeKwonDo, 6th Dan Black Belt in Judo and 6th Dan Black Belt in Aikido. He also has accomplished many other things in his life including college and served in the military for several years. I do not know him or any of his students and my only info is from the messages and his web site. I understand based the messages from his students that he is a very good MAs and instructor. I do not mean any disrespect to him or his students by this messages. Having said all that what I would like to understand is how does one (any one) accomplishing so much in only 45 years. I understand that many of these styles are related and are similar in many ways, but based on my experience of only 33 years in and around the MA world is that one needs to be focused, dedicated, and loyal to a style of MA and instructor. I have notices over the years that many people have started in one style for example such as judo and later change to TKD. They earn black belts in both at different times, but later dedicate themselves to one style such as TKD in my example. I also have noted that many Korean Masters have masters in both TKD and Hapkido. My guess is these Korean Masters of both style study them during the same time period and are promoted in both styles at the same tests including lower belt examines and black belt test. Both these scenario makes reasonable sense to me. What I do not understand is how someone can master five different styles including earning GM in some of them. How does one find the GM/instructors to teach and promote one in each of these different styles? Does one start with a white belt in each style and test for each new belt? It seems to me that it would require significant amount of time and money to get all the required promotions. It may be possible, but obviously very rare and very difficult to accomplish. I would be interested in hearing from any one on how it works or may work. Does GM Garrison’s student study all five styles during the same time period? Do they get tested and promoted in all five styles at the same time? It would be pretty cool to get five black belts in one test. I guess it would take 6 to 10 years of study assuming there is a lot of similar techniques in the styles and an over 8 hours of testing for such a black belts test. Looking for some enlightenment John --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Considerations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Now the fact is that you communicating with someone who didn't think much > of GM Jis' teaching, GM Seo's administrative skills, GM Lees' academic > skills and so forth. However, you will notice that in each case, rather > than discuss such issues, things got real personal, real fast. Again, perhaps you should be looking inward for resolution as to why many people react they do to some of your comments instead of outward... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Erik Hanson" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:55:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Fighting Fans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You could try looking at www.awma.com under weapons, there's not a huge selection, but it could work. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Invitation to Jackson/Registration/Fees Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:44:30 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Go to www.hapkido.com and see the seminar page and download your registration form... it is that easy or simply call West's Hapkido Academy and they will make sure you have all the information you need. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilson, Byron" To: Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 7:26 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Invitation to Jackson/Registration/Fees > If I am able to make a trip from Columbus, Ohio to Jackson, how would > one finagle an invitation to the Jackson Seminar? What are the fees and > how do you register. MOST IMPORTANTLY, is it useful for someone who is > just beginning HKD? > > > > Byron Wilson > > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Pan American Games Results to Date Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frowarding... With three days of competition already completed, the USTU has gathered 2 Bronze and 2 Gold medals. Tim Thackrey - Gold Steven Lopez - Gold Nia Abdallah - Bronze Simona Hradil - Bronze Still to compete on Saturday - Stewart Gill and Sanaz Shabazi. US Taekwondo Union One Olympic Plaza Ste 104C Colorado Springs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jonathan Payne" To: Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:33:27 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Ranks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... holds a 9th Degree Black Belt in Jul Sool Kwon Hapkido, > 9th Degree Black Belt in SSJK Jujitsu, 8th Degree Black Belt in Chung Do > Kwan TaeKwonDo, 7th Degree Black Belt in Kodokan Judo and 6th Degree > Black Belt in Aikido. My GM, Master Choi John Jung of Lake Charles LA, is an 8th Dan in TKD and a 7th Dan in Hapkido. He is over 50 years of age and has been teaching longer than the 33 years I have been on this earth. I find claims of multiple (3 or more) Master Dan ranks hard to believe. I know there are some execeptions. What ever happened to pick an art and go as far as you can? Jon Payne --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest