Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:01:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #355 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Thoughts on realistuc training vs traditional training (Dennis McHenry) 2. Hi Rudy and all (Ken McDonough) 3. Time for training (Rudy Timmerman) 4. RE: Thoughts on realistuc training vs traditional training (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Still_the_Master_Trap=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. Re: Nim (ABurrese@aol.com) 7. Sparring and control/ Realistic Training (Chris Holmes) 8. Burrese seminar review (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 9. martial arts and disabilities? (Rain Breaw) 10. list slow? (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:50:52 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dennis McHenry Subject: [The_Dojang] Thoughts on realistuc training vs traditional training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: Jye nigma > I find that many traditional schools lack realistic > training for the street. now don't get me wrong, the > moves we learn, the joint locks/breaks, pressure > points, weapons, etc. can be used to effectively, but > it the way(s) many of us train that lacks realism. I have an idea for realism training: Wearing regular street cloths, grab some students and hop in a van. While driving down the freeway, have one of your students who's sitting in the passenger front seat attack you while you are driving! If you don't train this way for these circumstances, how do you know what you'd do in this situation? (Maybe even the student can have a knife in his pocket – work with variations like this). Sounds far out, but I’ve had this happen to me. How do you ‘realistically’ train for such situations? Realistic training would be that everyone would just meet in a parking lot or a bar and just beat the crap out of each other. Or you could drive down the street and find someone to cut off (while flipping them the bird) and hope you invoke some road rage. Heck, get very realistic and just hand a student a knife or a gun and say “OK, see if you can hurt me”. You run out of students that way… you might not last long either. I guess ‘realistic training’ is all relative. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:55:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hi Rudy and all Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My main man Big Rudy T writes: Wake up, and take a coupla swigs of Makers Mark and 7 up, followed by > a few cups of coffee, and a laxative. Helps with the hemmoroids. Pop > one Simavistin at 20mg, and one Paxil CR at 25 mg. Helps with the high > cholesterol and severe depression. This is > followed by a short nap. Hello Ken: Its been a while, and we missed you: I'm with your schedule so far, are you sure the rest of it is necessary, or will a repeat of the above suffice? Perhaps dropping the last part will help alleviate the severe depression. We can then drop the drugs and go right into the nap:) Good to hear from you, the humor is always appreciated. Sincerely, Rudy> Response: He he. Always tongue in cheek here. May be leaving Tulsa soon. The wife has come down with a serious illness. She will be undergoing surgery shortly. Send out a pray y'all. Meanwhile, I am sending out applications. May end up in the North, the South or a neighborhood near you. Will hit you up on advice on local schools wherever I end up. Need to get back to training. However, have lost 12 lbs. and looking good. Always have to keep up appearances. I have a reputation to maintain. Who loves ya baby ! May all your ups and down be in bed. Peace, Big Ken --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:36:40 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Time for training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chris and Cindy write: > With this kind of > schedule, it is near impossible to find free time for my own training, > and > when I do find the time, it is solo training. There are some things > that > just can't be practiced adequately by yourself. > > If anyone has suggestions on how I can remedy this problem, I'm > certainly > open to the input. Hello Chris and Cindy: I suggest that you attend seminars like the one Master West has in Jackson. This sort of seminar brings together a whole lot of other people who are in the same boat, and they have a wonderful opportunity to continue their learning. Naturally, you will need to do additional training on your own, and I have found that visualizing my techniques or running through them by myself works not too bad. You will also need to do additional fitness training, and some of the other list members have commented on their schedules already. One more thing. Attending seminars often allows you to network with other folks who might be willing to set up a training program with you. This does not have to mean learning new stuff, it could just mean practicing the stuff you already know with a fellow practitioner. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Thoughts on realistuc training vs traditional training Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:09:13 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the Army we had a saying. "Train like you fight!" Fortunately I'm retired... However, you have to ask yourself, what's the real goal of training? Not everyone who trains in the Martial Arts want to tie people in pretzels and kill people with their pinkies... Just a thought... I personally think there is room for everyone who wants to train, traditionalists, black belt seekers, trophy hunters, self-defense enthusiasts, and people just wanting a unique social experience. I think we could have an equally diverse conversation about which color ink is best to right with... I agree that this is a very relative topic. Regards, Jason E. Thomas Chief Instructor North Austin Taekwondo Club www.natkd.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis McHenry [mailto:d.mchenry@juno.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 11:51 AM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Thoughts on realistuc training vs traditional > training > > > From: Jye nigma > > I find that many traditional schools lack realistic > > training for the street. now don't get me wrong, the > > moves we learn, the joint locks/breaks, pressure > > points, weapons, etc. can be used to effectively, but > > it the way(s) many of us train that lacks realism. > > I have an idea for realism training: Wearing regular street cloths, grab > some students and hop in a van. While driving down the freeway, have one > of your students who's sitting in the passenger front seat attack you > while you are driving! If you don't train this way for these > circumstances, how do you know what you'd do in this situation? > (Maybe even the student can have a knife in his pocket - work with > variations like this). > > Sounds far out, but I've had this happen to me. How do you > 'realistically' train for such situations? Realistic training would be > that everyone would just meet in a parking lot or a bar and just beat the > crap out of each other. Or you could drive down the street and find > someone to cut off (while flipping them the bird) and hope you invoke some > road rage. Heck, get very realistic and just hand a student a knife or a > gun and say "OK, see if you can hurt me". > > You run out of students that way. you might not last long either. I > guess 'realistic training' is all relative. > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:43:13 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Still_the_Master_Trap=3F_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Chris and Cindy: "....I, for one, work full time during the day and teach 4 classes every night. While I'm teaching, I dedicate all of that time to teaching (not personal training). Occasionally, I'll perform a few techniques for the class or pair myself with a student and work out a little - but, this can not be categorized as personal training or growth. With this kind of schedule, it is near impossible to find free time for my own training, and when I do find the time, it is solo training. There are some things that just can't be practiced adequately by yourself......." A BIG Amen!! Since I have gone this far I might as well go all the way. I started by talking about how important it is to take risks and reveal or allow it to be seen that one does NOT know it all or have all skills or all the ready answers. But now we have the other half of the problem. Just where does one go when they are in this situation? Again--- speaking ONLY for myself--- here is some of what I have run into when I wanted to push the edges of the envelope. 1.) There are damn few people around at my level of experience or rank. Thats not a brag, its just a statement of fact. There just are not that many people around who have been in the KMA a real long time, earned their rank and have a pretty good idea of whats going on. 2.) Of the people I have found at my level a goodly number have gotten stuck. By this I mean that unless we are doing things the way the GM has decreed there is nothing else to consider. Somebody said something about "robots" and I have been to plenty of classes where the room was full of robots dutifully going through the paces of yet another class. 3.) Of the people I have found at my level a goodly number have become comfortable or apathetic. By this I mean that demo-s are the same material over and over again. Suggestions get a prefunctory nod. One week of agenda looks pretty much the same as any other. And remember what we were saying about the Master Trap? Well, when you have sold people that you pretty much have all the answers how willing would YOU be to get out on the floor and show people that you don't by working with a peer on new material? 4.) Of the people I have found at my level a goodly number have struck out in some odd direction. Like the horse pent up in a barn too long, a person repressed for too long suddenly makes a dramatic turn in some wild direction, dumping this and grabbing that until not even they are sure what they are trying to do anymore. So now you know where I hit some dead ends. Heres' some of the places that I have found some solutions. a.) I stay on the mat as much as possible and pair-up with kids who think they have it all figured out. Its not that I want to spend a lot of time proving to them that they are wrong. What I am listening for is the rationale for why they think they are RIGHT. Lifes' too short to try and process all problems for myself so it pays to listen to people who have done the brainwork already and then cut to the chase. b.) Progress for me is spelled r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h. "Where did this come from?" "Why did they do it that way?" "Why didn't they do it this way?" "How come?" "What for"? "Who says?" (And BTW running to teacher every time you have a question doesn't count.) c.) The best way to succeed at a system is to push it to failure. This is where I find out how I good I look with egg on my face. This when I find out how well I can accept being wrong graciously. Push a position, or opinion, or technique until it no longer holds up or makes sense: what do you do with the space that follows? For instance, you're on the mat with Dakin and he offers his wrist for a Turning Leaf throw--- and it doesn't work--- he doesn't even budge. Now what? Sit and discuss how the circumstances weren't right? How about lose confidence in using that particular technique on thick-wristed MA teachers? How about asking Dakin to be more compliant cuz after all it IS only training? HERE is where the growing comes in. This is where Black Belts need to work with each other. (BTW: Dakin is great to work with. If you get the chance, do it.) OK so I think you all got the point. We talk a lot about how things should be. My thought is that we go to Jackson and do it. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:36:06 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Nim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Not to be petty, but since I've seen this a couple times on the DD in the last week, I just want to remind people that you do not use the honorific "nim" when referring to yourself. Examples: I could say, "I'm a Sabom of Hapkido" but not "I'm Sabomnim of Hapkido" I would not sign something from a school I owned as Kwanjangnim. I could sign Burrese Kwanjang, or even Kwanjang Burrese but not with the "nim" referring to myself. JFYI since I'm trying to better my Korean too. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Chris Holmes" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:18:14 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring and control/ Realistic Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just wanted to add to two threads that have been being discussed. First to the purple belt sparring without control. I had the same problem when I was a red belt in TSD. My master instructor helped me solve it by having me do focused sparring. Like someone else pointed out it was fear/nerves that made me get to rough. So focusing on say speed one night, then accuracy, then combinations, all of this helped me learn to have much better confidence and control. Regarding realistic training I have to agree with Master Timmerman that you can't prepare for the endless number of senarios you might be faced with on the street. Jye, I do think some deviation from the normal routine would be great but how do you gauge a sucessful defense against an attack. If someone comes at you with a knife and you do a wrist lock do just disarm them? Do you perform some kind of finish? What if they are being stupid and fighting back? I've had this happen and I had to stop executing the technique because I could feel the idiots joint seperating. Some people would rather let you break a joint or bone than submit. Maybe you're fortunate enough to have a group without large egos and with a desire to learn but it seems like there's always an "alpha" male wanna be in every group. Just curious to see if you had encountered the same problems. Chris _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup --__--__-- Message: 8 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:54:20 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Burrese seminar review Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Have dobok, will travel! A review of one of Alain's recent seminars: http://www.themartialist.com/0803/alain.htm Sharon --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:57:23 -0700 From: Rain Breaw To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] martial arts and disabilities? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To the DD: This is a slightly different post from current conversations, but I have a question that I would like to ask for the sake of my mother. My mom is relatively young, but she has a number of disabilities, which include being legally blind (completely blind in one eye and mostly blind in the other), having a bone-marrow illness, and various types of arthritis. At the same time, she has always been interested in taking up some form of martial art. Her hope is that it would enable her to find new ways to use her body and give her the chance, honestly, to feel like a real human being in control, at least to some degree, of her own body and movement. Her mobility is limited because she cannot drive, but there is a Tang Soo Do school, and Aikido school, and I think one other martial arts school within walking distance from where she is living. I don't remember seeing Yoga or Tai Chi anywhere nearby, which would be what I would think of recommending to her with my own limited knowledge. I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations regarding what she might consider trying, or even if it is a good idea at all. Also, what might she be concerned about, or what might seem like a concern and not be? For example, is her vision going to be a serious impairment, or are there people who successfully practice martial arts without vision? Thank you for your input, Rain --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] list slow? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net fyi, I'll be out of town for a few days, so the list may be running slower than usual until I return. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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