Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:30:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #356 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. How did they escape? (A. Boyd) 2. RE: martial arts and disabilities? (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) 3. Reality training (Charles Richards) 4. What are the ways to counter punches at point sparring? (peter lim) 5. Re: Different Training Motives (Dan Monjar) 6. Marine Corp Martial Arts (Joe Gorges) 7. Sightless Self-Defense (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 8. Re: Time for training (Chris and Cindy) 9. Near blind martial arts (Charles Richards) 10. Title Master (Stephen Petermann) 11. Problems with the USTU (Robert Martin) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:21:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] How did they escape? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce: In my experience, the guys who end up "staying real" and avoid the perils of the Master Trap are those who really enjoy martial arts *and* enjoy doing martial arts with people. My sparring instructor is quite young and physical. His teaching mode is usually to demonstrate and model the movements, followed by description and finally pairwork. He is starting to find it hard to remember advanced forms and the little things we rarely get to practice as he has primarily young children as students and the bulk of his classes are low gup ranks. The upper ranks all come to the same class for some perverse reason. Rather than hide his fading memory, he has stepped out of the rank progression cycle and is working on maintenance. Why? He wants to master what he knows and he has no love for the politics that come with rank. He wants to be a swordsman. My Master Instructor loves realism. Although his elevated rank and position is starting to drag him away from the dojang more and more, he never hesitates to strip away the artsy veneer of things and get my back to practical elements. He briefly wrestled with the fear of appearing less than perfect and began to hide his cutting practice from us as we began to get better. Oddly, a car accident in which he hurt his back and another accident in which he broke his hand enabled him to break that cycle of withdrawal and get back to real, open training. We are all a lot happier as a result. Is there a recipe for avoiding the Trap? I hope so. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] martial arts and disabilities? Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:13:13 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My first TKD School in New Orleans is currently run by blind woman. Her name is Robin, sorry but I don't recall her last name. But I remember sparring with her when I was in my teens. We used to put little bells on our pads... There is definitely a place for your mom if she wants to try out a martial art. There are several articles out on the web: Here is one that I found: http://www.etta.org/olamarticles/thou_can_do_tae_kwon_do_for_the_.htm Best of luck in your search. Regards, Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: Rain Breaw [mailto:rainbreaw@mac.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 11:57 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] martial arts and disabilities? > > To the DD: > > This is a slightly different post from current conversations, but I > have a question that I would like to ask for the sake of my mother. My > mom is relatively young, but she has a number of disabilities, which > include being legally blind (completely blind in one eye and mostly > blind in the other), having a bone-marrow illness, and various types of > arthritis. At the same time, she has always been interested in taking > up some form of martial art. Her hope is that it would enable her to > find new ways to use her body and give her the chance, honestly, to > feel like a real human being in control, at least to some degree, of > her own body and movement. Her mobility is limited because she cannot > drive, but there is a Tang Soo Do school, and Aikido school, and I > think one other martial arts school within walking distance from where > she is living. I don't remember seeing Yoga or Tai Chi anywhere > nearby, which would be what I would think of recommending to her with > my own limited knowledge. > > I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations regarding what she > might consider trying, or even if it is a good idea at all. Also, what > might she be concerned about, or what might seem like a concern and not > be? For example, is her vision going to be a serious impairment, or > are there people who successfully practice martial arts without vision? > > Thank you for your input, > > Rain > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:04:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Reality training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Just a thought... I personally think there is room for everyone who wants to train, traditionalists, black belt seekers, trophy hunters, self-defense enthusiasts, and people just wanting a unique social experience. <> Dear Jason & Mac, I have tried to take an attitude of teaching anyone who's willing to play in our sand box. With only 32 students, I still probably have one of the widest divesities from age 5 to 50, white belt to black belt (transfers) and all income, race and belief levels. In the list above, I have some of each. After 3 years and first brown belts of implementation I'm at the nexus of a cirriculum shift as it relates to "putting people in pretzels, and killing them with my thumb." Experience has shown that too much detail to this or that pressure point or joint locks and throws (at least for us TSD folks) detracts from the quality of forms and other basics. Doing a lot of sole searching with Master Lee I keep second guessing myself as to whether I am teaching TSDMDK or Korean Martial Arts. I know where my roots are, and I also have a very questioning practical side. I have also learned that not everyone who trains want to "be able to defend themselves." Yesterday I went to lunch with my web goddess, who is also my 3rd most senior 3 year student and now 3rd gup brown. This quote blows me away and puts me in my place about understanding peoples needs and motivation. 1. "I could do drills and forms all day and be happy." She doesn't like to spar, and doesn't care for falling and rolling. 2. "I decied that I have to pass my red belt test becasue the brown belts are so ugly." I will never truely understand women, neh? So the net result is it looks like our classes will revert back to looking a lot more like traditional TSDMDK, but our seminars and "fun nights" will include all the reality training, etc, etc.... Seems like the best balance I can come up with. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:05:14 -0700 (PDT) From: peter lim To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] What are the ways to counter punches at point sparring? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To DD Experts: My son (9 yrs old) has been practising TKD for 1.5 years now and has good kicking skills and does fairly well in his school competitions. However, he has been frustrated lately in competitions outside his school because he lost on points from punches (light punches). He favors an attacking style and has no problem to match his skills with bigger kids but in the point sparring competition outside his school, he gets punched before he even gets to throw his kicks. Appreciate your expert advice on what he should work on to counter this in advance. TKDFather --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:05:59 -0400 From: Dan Monjar To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Different Training Motives Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net --On Tuesday, August 12, 2003 07:44:03 PM -0700 the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > Ray, > > You are very correct, not everyone has the same motives for training, and > I see no problem with that. My rub is those instructors and masters who > are teaching solely sport, but duping students into believing they are > learning how to fight. > > Danny Dunn What criteria do you use to tell the difference? -- Daniel Monjar IS Manager, Technical Services bioMérieux, Inc. Durham, NC US --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Joe Gorges" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:44:53 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Marine Corp Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey all, I was wondering if anyone has been through MCMAP and could give some insight as to what it's like. I'm enlisted in the Marines scheduled to leave for boot camp in Feb, and can't wait to see their Martial Arts. Respectfully Yours, Joe _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 7 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:47:00 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Sightless Self-Defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rain asked: > are there people who successfully practice martial arts without vision? What area does your mother live in? You might try contacting Sensei Stan Miller at Portland Small Circle Jujitsu. I have trained with Sensei Miller and found him knowledgeable and a good instructor. He developed and has run a Sightless Self-Defense Program for years now and would be a good resource on the subject. His website address is members.tripod.com/~PSCJujitsu/. Sharon --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:16:13 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Chris and Cindy Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time for training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Hello Chris and Cindy: >I suggest that you attend seminars like the one Master West has in >Jackson. This sort of seminar brings together a whole lot of other >people who are in the same boat, and they have a wonderful opportunity >to continue their learning. Naturally, you will need to do additional >training on your own, and I have found that visualizing my techniques >or running through them by myself works not too bad. > >You will also need to do additional fitness training, and some of the >other list members have commented on their schedules already. One more >thing. Attending seminars often allows you to network with other folks >who might be willing to set up a training program with you. This does >not have to mean learning new stuff, it could just mean practicing the >stuff you already know with a fellow practitioner. > >Sincerely, Rudy Thank you very much for the suggestion. In fact, after hearing what is offered in some of these seminars, my interest has been peaked. It is something that I might try to work into my schedule the next time one pops up. I know I can not make it to Master West's seminar in Jackson because of prior commitments, but I will keep my ears open for any future seminars and I hope to attend. My wife and I share the bulk of the instruction at our dojang, but there are some classes where I am the only one qualified to teach. In your opinion, what is the best way to handle this "down time" with my students when I have to step away for a little while when attending such seminars? -- Hopefully they will understand, since it is continued training and education for me, and I will be able to pass it on to them. But, I always feel guilty when I can't adhere to a schedule that I create and I'm unable to fulfill the responsibilities that my students are paying for. -Chris --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:04:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Near blind martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> This is a slightly different post from current conversations, but I have a question that I would like to ask for the sake of my mother. My mom is relatively young, but she has a number of disabilities, which include being legally blind (completely blind in one eye and mostly blind in the other), having a bone-marrow illness, and various types of arthritis. At the same time, she has always been interested in taking up some form of martial art. Her hope is that it would enable her to find new ways to use her body and give her the chance, honestly, to feel like a real human being in control, at least to some degree, of her own body and movement. Her mobility is limited because she cannot drive, but there is a Tang Soo Do school, and Aikido school, and I think one other martial arts school within walking distance from where she is living. I don't remember seeing Yoga or Tai Chi anywhere nearby, which would be what I would think of recommending to her with my own limited knowledge. I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations regarding what she might consider trying, or even if it is a good idea at all. Also, what might she be concerned about, or what might seem like a concern and not be? For example, is her vision going to be a serious impairment, or are there people who successfully practice martial arts without vision? <> Rain, If your mom is a kynestetic learner and can "visualize" the specific style won't matter, but some activities might. A striking based art that requires hand-eye coordination for sparring could be a problem, but at the higher levels (or at least I do) sparring blindfolded is done. In my peak, I could actually score points on people without injuring them. You'd be surprised how much noise you make when sparring. On the other hand, my first guess would be an art like Aikido or Judo might be better served to a "hold me this way and I'll lock your joints or throw you" approach, because you don't have to see the attacker. The most important thing will be an instructor that is willing to experience the world as your mother does and then try to adapt their cirricula to that perspective. Yours in Jung Do, CHarles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Stephen Petermann" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:44:15 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Title Master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All, Recieving the title "Master" a few years ago made me as uncomfortable as when you first get called "Sir". The title however is nothing compared to the mantle. If I may steal from the movie As Good as it Gets... "it makes me want to be a better man." I see no reason to hide my human-ness from my students. I make mistakes. I wish we used the term "Professor", and that is how I try to explain the title "Master" to those who ask me. BTW, we welcome visitors, and if you are in our area, contact us. In addition, we will be having an open seminar in Laughlin, NV September 13, 2003. All practicing MAs are welcome, send me a e-mail if you are interested. Steve Petermann _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:05:19 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Problems with the USTU Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm curious as to what our USTU brothern think of this. Robert Martin U.S. Taekwondo Union comes under fire from USOC By DAVID BARRON Houston Chronicle The U.S. Taekwondo Union faces decertification as the sport's national governing body because of a long list of shortcomings that includes financial wrongdoing, organizational chaos and, in the words of U.S. Olympic Committee officials, "an allegiance to Korea to the detriment ... of U.S. athletes." Thomas Satrom, chairman of the USOC's membership and credentials committee, said in a three-page letter sent Aug. 1 to USTU executive director Bruce Harris that the group should be prepared to defend its existence as a national governing body during a Sept. 11-12 hearing in Colorado Springs, Colo. "It has become evident to the committee that serious problems exist with USTU," Satrom wrote in the letter, a copy of which was obtained by the Chronicle. "These problems are numerous but result from USTU's governance structure, (its) inability to effectively manage its sport ... (and) its failure to operate in a fiscally sound manner with financial controls and accountability." The membership and credentials committee will vote during the hearing whether to recommend to the USOC executive board that it revoke the USTU's membership in the Olympic movement and end its status as a national governing body. Satrom cited a dozen areas of concern in his letter, most dealing with organizational and financial shortcomings. But two deal with areas that have been of widespread concern to some Korean- Americans and non-Korean-Americans who compete in the sport - - - the USTU's perceived allegiance to Korea, where the sport of taekwondo originated. USOC officials were not specific in their allegations that the USTU and its president, Sang Chul Lee of Colorado Springs, demonstrate "an allegiance to Korea to the detriment of U.S. programs and the interests of U.S. athletes." Neither Lee nor Harris returned numerous calls from the Chronicle seeking comment on the issue. A related complaint, however, cites the USTU's failure to develop its own certification process for members while relying on a process that funnels hundreds of thousands of dollars each year to the Kukkiwon, the Korean-based international certification body for taekwondo. "The belief (that the USTU leadership is tied too closely to the Kukkiwon) is widespread. It certainly is the perception among many people," said Kim Sol of Missoula, Mont., a member of the USTU's board of directors. "Whether it is true is difficult to say. It's hard to read minds." Lee's critics cite his appearance, in his role as vice chairman of the World Taekwondo federation, at a 2002 meeting designed to quiet dissension among Korean taekwondo groups and ensure that Korea, in the words of one participant, "maintain a leading role in the world." "We organized this meeting to get across our message to Korean taekwondo people that we have no time to fight over trivial things and that we have to work out action programs for another take-off of taekwondo," Lee said, according to Korean newspaper accounts of the meeting. A year ago, questions about Korea's role in the administration of taekwondo as an Olympic sport arose after Chong Woo Lee, a former vice president of the World Taekwondo Federation, was quoted in an interview with a South Korean magazine that referees and officials were instructed to favor Korean competitors in the 2000 Sydney Olympics. As for the certification complaint, Sol said: "Now that's a real, real problem. Among the Kukkiwon's stated objectives is the support of the Korean Taekwondo Association, so you have a group certified by the USOC that is sending money to support a governing body of another country. That's a problem." Fees start at $70 for a first-degree black belt and increase to $125 for a third-degree black belt. Sol said the Kukkiwon's belt certification system is "as much a financial assessment" as a certification that the recipient is qualified to engage in competitive taekwondo, but it also places the Korean group in a position to dictate to the USOC who is qualified to represent the United States in the sport. The USOC letter also refers to the "lack of any financial standards or controls, the complete disarray of financial records (and) the failure to timely develop and implement a budget." Sol suggests Sang Lee's personality as president of the USTU is to blame for many of the financial shortcomings. "Sang Lee is a man of good intentions, but he's one of those people who doesn't like budgets," he said. "Budgets and Sang Lee don't get along. He's not detail-oriented, and the USTU needs an improved budget process." The USOC letter also criticizes the USTU's organizational structure, which it said leads to "continual disputes" between the governing body and its members, and a large board of directors that is "too divisive to effectively oversee the management of USTU." The board includes 50 state presidents, who are appointed by the USTU president, and voting in USTU matters is determined by the number of members in USTU-certified clubs, with larger clubs receiving more votes on association matters. Guy Poos of Edmond, Okla., a member of the USTU board of directors, said the organization "is being held captive by Koreans when most of its membership are American-born and of every ethnicity." --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest