Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:24:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #359 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Bruce's Thoughts (FirstPe315@aol.com) 2. AAU Taekwondo Newsletter August 2003 (fwd) (Ray Terry) 3. John's Questions (FirstPe315@aol.com) 4. The value of a Black Belt (Rudy Timmerman) 5. RE: boot camp black belts (Chris Hamilton) 6. Korean Karate (Stickfighter27@cs.com) 7. Re: Korean Karate (Ray Terry) 8. Martial Colonialization (Chosondo@aol.com) 9. Get together in Austin Saturday August 30th, 2003. (Jason E. Thomas) 10. Marine Corps Martial Arts (Grant D. Watson) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:51:37 -0400 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce's Thoughts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce- I don't disagree with you. I also am not fond of a few stories I have heard about some of the "higher ups" in the game of Hapkido. However, I must conceded although I have an opinion, that it is not direct evidence so I don't think sharing it publicly is appropriate. I would give these stories out as "information" only. But, you're right, that's hard. Bear in mind, I don't have problems with people who don't like Mr. Garrison. We all have our likes and dislikes and I can have an exchange (privately I guess) without getting in a huff. I just thought that it was a little inappropriate to list him with Hackworth and Pelligrini. I doubt that was your intention. I didn't know thereby, my e-mail. Perhaps I jumped the gun. Sorry if I did. BTW, Mr. Garrison had spent time in Hapkido prior to Mr. Kim. Most of his time was in Japanese countries due to his military involvement which is why he spent a great deal of time in his younger 20's in Judo and Aikido. However, from what I hear, once he met Mr. Kim and saw Hapkido from him, he was hooked. Jeff In a message dated 8/16/2003 6:01:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I just can't help > but feel that it might be possible to exchange information on these > subjects without things devolving into exchanges that > include perjoratives > like "sell-out". FWIW. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] AAU Taekwondo Newsletter August 2003 (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net forwarded message: Here is your AAU Taekwondo Newsletter for August 2003. AAU Taekwondo competitions feature both Olympic and Point sparring, and traditional Taekwondo forms, including WTF, ITF, and TSD/MDK forms may be performed. For more information visit http://www.aautaekwondo.org In This Issue: *USTU May Lose NGB Status *Mike Friello Conducts Site Visits *Team Trials to be held in Las Vegas *AAU National Championship Results Now Online *USTU May Lose NGB Status The U.S. Taekwondo Union may be decertified as the Taekwondo national governing body for the U.S due to financial and structural problems recently cited by the U.S. Olympic Committee. A hearing will be held Sept. 11-12 in Colorado Springs to determine if the USTU's NGB status should be revoked. In a letter dated August 1 from the chairman of the USOC's membership and credentials committee, Thomas Satrom, stated, "It has become evident to the committee that serious problems exist with USTU, and he went on to note that, These problems are numerous but result from USTU's governance structure, (its) inability to effectively manage its sport ... (and) its failure to operate in a fiscally sound manner with financial controls and accountability." The USOC also assailed the USTU for "an allegiance to Korea to the detriment ... of U.S. athletes." For more info on the USTU controversy visit: http://news.ladytkd.net. *Mike Friello Conducts Site Visits AAU National Sport Chair Mike Friello has recently traveled to Ft. Lauderdale and San Antonio to conduct site visits. The visits are a key step in planning for the National AAU Youth And Adult Taekwondo Championship. *Team Trials to be held in Las Vegas The team trials for the AAU National Team will be held October 11th and 12th in Las Vegas. Individual letters of invitation will be mailed to all eligible participants by the end of August. *AAU National Championship Results Now Online The results from the 2003 National AAU Youth And Adult Taekwondo Championship have now been posted on the AAU Taekwondo website at http://www.aautaekwondo.org. Just Go to Tournament/Events and click on Past Tournament Results. *Order AAU Merchandise Online Need an AAU coach's shirt, AAU patches, pins, ties, training videos, or gup rank certificates? Now you can order them online (no more printing out order forms). Just go to http://www.aautaekwondo.org And get all the things you need! *The AAU Taekwondo Web Site Can Help You Want news, AAU Dan Certification info, tournament results, AAU merchandise, club or individual membership registration, or just the phone number of your Sport Chair? Visit: http://www.aautaekwondo.org ************************************************************** *Special Introductory Offer Exclusively for AAU Members from Summit Flexible Products. Buy 50 or more CardioFlex(tm) or CardioFlex Twin martial art mats and get tapered safety edge strips FREE. Call 888-FOR-MATS or email: summitinfo@aol.com ************************************************************** The AAU Taekwondo Newsletter is brought to you by the AAU Taekwondo Program at http://www.aautaekwondo.org Edited by David Mazor dmazor@comcast.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:03:51 -0400 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] John's Questions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John- Just as a sidenote, some of those ranks were misrepresnted. He is only a 7th Dan in TKD through Kukkiwon and 6th Dan in Judo through the Kodokan. Another sidenote, although I'm 2nd Dan in Judo, it's EASY to get Judo rank when you compete. I have seen neophytes go into tournaments, win against a Brown or Black belt and they are Brown or Black within 9 months. Promotion comes mainly through competition points. I would get my #$%@# smeared in Randori by these folks but ask us both to teach, I probably would be more competent than many. Briefly this is how it works. Hapkido, TKD and Judo are Pacific Rim's main arts. I have rank in 4 with HKD and TKD being my highest because that is what I choose to follow. I still attend Judo and Aikido clinics insomuch as it helps my Hapkido and overall knowledge. I probably will gain more rank in these over the years but slower because I dont' focus on it the same as Mr. Garrison did. Our HKD and TKD rank was simultaneous because TKD forms were a required part of the HKD curriculum. But we didnt' spent time in WTF sparring and breaking per se for example. Anyway, that's about the best I can do. BTW, you are right about cross-over arts. It helps a lot when they are related. It was easy moving from HKD 4th Dan to Aikido 1st Dan with only about a year training. All it was was a matter of memorizing techniques and terminology (which the Japanese are adamant about) because many of the techniques are similar but with a different intent behind them. Jeff In a message dated 8/16/2003 6:01:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Do they get tested and promoted in all five styles at the same time? It > would be pretty cool to get five black belts in one test. I guess it would > take > 6 to 10 years of study assuming there is a lot of similar techniques in the > styles and an over 8 hours of testing for such a black > belts test. > Looking for some enlightenment > John --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:16:55 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] The value of a Black Belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Barbara writes: > Okay, these are my sentiments exactly. I'm a..uh...50-something woman > who has been training in the martial arts for the past 8 years. > Having torn cartilage in my knee which, after a year of pain and > discomfort, required surgery -- caused by trying to learn cartwheels > in my MA class--and then breaking my foot during a sparring match this > past February, I was almost ready to hang up the martial arts hat > or...belt. I've never enjoyed sparring, and yes I feel I could do > drills and forms all day and be happy. I'd like to think that I can > use my MA training if I'm ever in a threatening situation, but > basically I don't like to hit or be hit. Hello Barbara: I sure hope you find what you are looking for, as I think the martial arts world is better off keeping folks like you around for as long as is possible. There are many people out there (some of them Instructors) who cannot see just how valuable you are to martial arts until later in life; however, by the time they learn to appreciate you, it is quite possible you will have left to take up some other hobby. IMHO, there are, and there will always be, students who train for different reasons, and not everyone wants to train for "reality". In most cases, a school cannot survive without having ALL of the students remain happy and paying customers. I speak from personal experience that it is near impossible to run a martial art school with JUST those who wish to train full out. There are simply not enough of them to keep the doors open. Similarly, it may not be possible to keep a martial arts Instructor happy teaching JUST those who wish to "dabble" a bit in martial arts because it gives them a good workout PLUS some added benefits. Students and teachers alike must recognize the fact that every level of student within a school is a vitally important element for keeping the place open for training (not to mention the individual benefits to each and every student). The alternative is having the doors close for all. > I'm not even adverse to staying a white belt again forever, if I can > avoid sparring. Part of the motivation to keep training is perhaps the rank system. For some folks, it means very little to stay a white belt, and for others it may mean the difference between quitting or staying on to train. Few recognize that "earning a belt rank" does not make you better than those who don't want rank. Earned or "given" ranks are just that... an indicator for the individual who wears it. Some train very hard to get their rank, and others may not have trained at all. For a price you can get all the rank you want from some orgs. For these, and a myriad of other good reasons, it is impossible to think of rank as an equalizer of skill or value. Those who worked their butt off to get their rank will get old; and, when age catches up to you, you'll find that skills you once excelled in are no longer within your capabilities. If physical skill is the only measure, at what point does the belt you truly earned become as useless as that of one who never earned it to begin with? Martial art training is a good thing for everyone who works at it. The level you work at is a personal thing, and so is the rank that goes with it. In your journey, you will see Black Belts who are truly a sight to see, and you will see Black Belts no one really wants to see:) It becomes much easier to live with the latter, if the "measure" of your worth as a Black Belt is determined by the person you are. In closing, I truly hope you will stay. Your participation is good for you, and the dues you pay may just be the very thing that keep the doors open for a kid that would otherwise be on the street stealing hubcaps (or worse). Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Chris Hamilton" To: Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:38:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: boot camp black belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One of my good friends just got out of the USMC. I believe he said at the beginning of the program they are all given green or camo belts, then progress to brown and then black. He said that it was pretty much an introductory type thing akin to a mix of jiu-jitsu and TKD basics over a course less than 13 weeks. He is 4th dan kukki TKD, and they were not receptive to any suggestions. I assume it is a tightly structured program. Chris H. Han Mu Do in BR --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Stickfighter27@cs.com Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:38:59 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Karate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Upon doing some research, Im finding several schools in my local town that are Korean Karate schools. This is odd to me because Im not sure the history or heritage of such. But is it common for a school to be reffered to as " American TKD" and yet be more of Shotokan background? The terminology they use is widely Japanese. The teacher is called Sensei, they were a Gi, and all the techniques are reffered to as japanese name. Now of course as I searched and done research by talking with these Instructors around town, we've all come to agree one thing. That when Japan occupied Korea and at this time the Japanese would not allow Korean's to speak thier native tounge or so it was told. And its easy to assume as the Americans started to replace the Japanse and the soldiers began the study of at that time Korean Karate that it was easily called TKD but yet it was taught to the soldier in Japanese structure. And as the American vet returned back to the states he just taught it as it was. Or could of been TKD in name for marketing purposes and such. The history of this town's TKD is dated back to WWII of a Soldier who trained with an IK LEE but thier is no such history of who this IK Lee is or was. The soldier's name was David Foreman who had brought this sytem to town in the early 60's. Now umongst even the highest ranking black belts in the system have little to no historical background to his lessons other than this IK Lee. I was just wondering if anyone else knows of how this came along or has a simular background in thier system? The Kata ran in thie TKD system are pin-an forms. I'm not aware of any Traditional TKD forms at all within the system. But then again are their such a thing as Traditional TKD? From my understanding the term Korean Karate is a term of a more Combative Korean art not so much geared for the Sport type Martial Art. Is this true? Is thier a Traditional and non traditional TKD? Thanks for any answers I can get. In the arts Cory --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Korean Karate To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The history of this town's TKD is dated back to WWII of a Soldier who > trained with an IK LEE but thier is no such history of who this IK Lee is or was. > The soldier's name was David Foreman who had brought this sytem to town in the > early 60's. Now umongst even the highest ranking black belts in the system > have little to no historical background to his lessons other than this IK Lee. Trained with him in Korea after 1945? Maybe WK Lee??? But it would not have been Taekwondo. That word was not used until about 10 years after WWII ended. Maybe Tangsoodo as it is just the way a Korean says the characters for Karate-do. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:48:35 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Colonialization Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been in the martial arts for over 35 years and there has always been a double standard. For example, the WTF keeps changing the rules of rank advancement as we in the west start to close the ranks. What has occurred in the last 25 years in nothing short of colonialization. My Taekwondo teacher, Dr. Yang Dong Ja was excommunicated from the WTF because he blew the whistle on the double standards and injustices perpetrated the WTF on U.S. nationals. I witnessed the injustices first hand having being one of his senior students, especially during the period when he was president of the USTU and PATU. If you wish to know more visit his website at www.tkdreform.com. In my opinion the USTU should be of the people and by the people. Connsider this, in most South American countries Korean nationals are not allowed to hold any official position (except the title of coach) in that country's national governing body.... Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster International Chosondo Federation Choson Kwon Bup - Hapkido - Taekwondo 7252 Valley Ave Philadelphia, PA 19128 215-483-5057 --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:08:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason E. Thomas" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Get together in Austin Saturday August 30th, 2003. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We will be having a small training session here in Austin in anticipation of Master West’s Seminar in Jackson. Anyone in the Austin area or wishing to train with a few fellow DDer’s in during the Labor Day weekend is welcome to attend. More detail can be found in the news section of my site: http://www.natkd.com/news.htm Thanks… Regards, Jason E. ThomasChief InstructorNorth Austin Taekwondo Clubwww.natkd.com Regards, Jason --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:41:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Grant D. Watson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Marine Corps Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, I found a Marine Corps page that talks about their Martial Arts program. It's only happy with the combination of Internet Explorer and Java, though: https://www.tbs.usmc.mil/Pages/Martial_Arts/default.htm . It seems that the Marine Corps program simply tries to incorporate the training that already existed into one package, and to affect how that training, and those training in it, are _perceived_ by themselves and others. In short, a Marine Corps brown belt is a brown belt in having recieved Marine Corps training and conditioning, _not_ in unarmed combatives. At least, that's the idea I get from reading their site. Interestingly enough, many of the belts have military rank requirements: Tan – entry level training. Grey – no rank requirement. Green – Corporal and above. Brown – Corporal and above. Black – Sergeant and above. ===== Grant D. Watson, __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest