Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:01:51 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #370 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. TKDTS ARTICLE (Troy Trudeau) 2. Re: USTU Certification conversion Cost (Ray Terry) 3. Korean certification problems (Rudy Timmerman) 4. Re: club vs card carrying member conversion rates (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 5. Kido Hae (Rudy Timmerman) 6. Awareness (Rudy Timmerman) 7. Re: Awareness (Ray Terry) 8. GM Ji and TKD Times (FirstPe315@aol.com) 9. Re: GM Ji and TKD Times (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:46:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Trudeau To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TKDTS ARTICLE Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks Ray, I worked on that for sometime, I am currently working on my next article, which is going to be on Womens rape prevention, It should appear in the first 2004 edition, it will be 3 to 5 pages approximately, Sincerely, Troy Trudeau www.wtswa.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: USTU Certification conversion Cost Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > site stated > that 50% of the fees paid to the USTU for the Kukkiwon Dan certification is > kept by the USTU. For example, the 3rd Dan fee is $120.00 of which the USTU > gets $60.00. If this is correct than the USTU has been making good money off > the Kukkiwon certification business and , therefore, they should not be > charging anyone with Kukkiwon certification for conversions to the USTU > certification. This web site also claims Koreans only pay around $24.95 for > Kukkiwon certification. If correct, this big difference needs to be explained > by the USTU. The price is exactly the same if you go straight to the Kukkiwon. If you process your Kukkiwon dan certs thru the USTU, they keep half of the fee and send half to the Kukkiwon. If you process your Kukkiwon dan certs directly thru the Kukkiwon, they (the Kukkiwon) keep the entire fee. The Kukkiwon sets the Kukkiwon dan fees, not the USTU. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:02:18 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean certification problems Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray writes: > One must also consider in what capacity they were signed, assuming they > actually were signed. e.g. were they signed by Master John Doe, or > were they > signed by Master John Doe in his capacity as Grand Pooh-bah of > Pooh-bahs > Are Us. ??? > I would think that, given the Kidohae championships etc. organized by GM Seo, Kidohae would have HAD to know about foreign dahn holders... they allowed us to compete at these events. > Who knows if those in Korea even saw these issues of TKD Times > magazine? > Do these Hapkido people in Korea even know of TKD Times magazine??? TKDT is published by a Korean, and, IMHO, they would have to have their heads in the sand not to know. Let's face it, they are in the business of certification and registration, it would by prudent to keep up on what is going on in the world of Korean martial arts. If they are not, I question just how valuable we (Korean martial artists outside Korea) are to Kidohae. The same person you base your post on also communicated that certification would be recognized; however, re certification would have to be done on a monthly basis from 1st dahn onward. If this is not a money grab, I don't know what is. It most certainly can't have anything to do with quality control. > Consider the claims of one chubby grandmaster wannabe from down > Florida way. > The KHF has indicated that they are blantly false, yet TKDT continues > to > print the news releases they receive. Is the KHF even aware of the > false > statements being printed by TKDT? Only if we bring them to their > attention. > Given the very small size of their staff (you might be amazed exactly > how small) it is very doubtful they have time to review issues of the > various > publications from the various countries. They may claim these statements etc. are false; however, KHF Masters do not seem to have a problem coming to the US to share their knowledge and take home some US $$. In addition, enough has been written to KHF about these issues that claiming ignorance of the facts is just not acceptable. We all know that there has been a considerable amount of communication with regards to these issues. Is what happens outside Korea is just not important enough??? Perhaps we should suggest they subscribe to Take Kwon Do Times in order to keep up with the news:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:11:12 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: club vs card carrying member conversion rates Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "It appears that the first announcement is for the "real members" of the USTU, the "club owners", and the second announcement (on the web site) is for the card carrying members. Based on these announcements, one could conclude the "club owners" can pocket the $50.00 plus any mark up they added on the fee. This is nice bonus for the club owners and example of how the USTU tries to support the real members, the "club owners". As a card carry member, who pays for 4 USTU memberships (all my families is involved and all of us have Kukkiwon Dan certifications) , I very much resent these proposed new additional fees." actually, i believe that mailing went out to anyone who opted in to the USTU mailing list. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:43:17 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kido Hae Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > Rudy, you brought up one in that manner in which World KIDO Fed > advertising > always seems to cite the support and connection with Korea in naming > of the > KKF and the Korean Government. For me, however, I look at the > signature at > the bottom of my cert and ask myself what does it really mean if I > have no > true relationship with GM Seo? Has he ever seen me work? My cert > depends on > my presenting a cert from GM Myung who has actually observed and > evaluated > my performance. I am relatively sure that you and I and all the rest of the folks who have sought to be certified by either Kido Hae organization had their reasons for doing so. It was WE who asked for it and sent the copies of our certificates along as proof. I think we all had that feeling of wanting to belong to an organization that represented the nation of the art we study. Many newer black belts (and some older ones) truly believe that certification MUST come from Korea to have any value. When I resigned from WKSA, some of my oldest students (training wise), elected to stay with WKSA because they felt their certification was worth the price of leaving a long time Instructor. Most of these folks had NEVER trained with GM Suh, because he usually did not get on the mat to teach even at his own seminars. Many of them have since returned to me, because they never learned anything after they left me; however, it still beats me why they left to go with someone who never taught them in the first place > What exactly does GM Seos' signature mean if he does no > seminars, does not train students, and does not maintain quality > control? Bruce, if there is one thing wrong with your assumption this is it. GM Seo is one of the only ones I know of who makes himself readily available to anyone who wants to learn ON THE MAT. I for one admire his efforts to work with martial artists abroad. Only problem is distance which in turn means money. It is very costly to bring him here, and it is equally costly for us to go there. Still, that is not his fault. > That in turn begs the question that if these two entities have parted > (WKF > and the KKF) what will the KKF do for THEIR part that will be better > than > what GM Seo is doing right now? OR--- are BOTH the WKF AND the KKF > going to > sit back and become certificate stores? FWIW. I know that GM Seo is continuing his efforts to bring korean martial arts to us, and I will attend his next efforts in Korea in April (if the other side has not blown it up by that time:) As far as Daehan Kidohae: To my knowledge, they never even contacted any of their members. Before you tell me that Master Kim might not know about us, I'll tell you that he most certainly does know me. He trained with me in my back yard, and he slept in my home. Despite the fact he was extremely busy, we even talked some on my last visit to Korea (just before the split). That is why I question our value to Daehan Kidohae. Before folks conclude that his post is an ad for GM Seo, it is not. I personally have only one thing in mind when it comes to belonging to any organization... training opportunities for me and/or my students. I have had my fill with politics long ago, and I have no desire to get into more of the same. This post is just an honest evaluation on the opportunities I see (and seek) for my students. FWIW. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 22:00:16 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Awareness Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ali writes: > President Myung Sung Kwang, and I > were discussing varies US martial arts publications and he was not > aware > of either Taekwondo Times or any other magazine except for Black Belt. Hello Ali: You and Ray both mention that certain heads of organizations are not aware of International magazines. IMHO, this is just one more way these folks demonstrate their lack of caring what happens outside Korea; OR, it is a copout. I am sure I saw GM Ji on the cover of TKDT, and I know for a fact that a front cover on any martial art magazine does not happen by accident. It takes lots of planning, and that takes BOTH parties. In the case of simple articles: the risk of law suits is just to great for a publisher not to seek approval for an article. In any case, does in not seem ludicrous to believe anyone with an interest in growing his organization (along with the additional US dollars in his bank account) does not take the time to seek out what is going on. If they do not, I simply am astounded by their lack of business sense, and from my personal experience with Korean martial arts businessmen this is one area they do not lack in:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Awareness To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > In any case, does in not seem ludicrous to believe anyone with an > interest in growing his organization (along with the additional US > dollars in his bank account) does not take the time to seek out what is > going on. Honestly??? Not in the least. Afterall most of these folks are great martial artists, not necessarily great business men. Consider... how many MA mags in how many different languages from how many countries around the world would they need to read to keep up? I suspect that most of these folks only speak/read Korean. Now I don't know about the Daehan Kidohwe, but in some of these org offices in Korea they have an english speaking secretary come in one day every week or two to translate english mail, email and faxes into hangul. Ok. I'll shut up now. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:22:48 -0400 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Ji and TKD Times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray- I don't understand this statement. Wasn't there just a cover story and interview with him in TKD Times a few months back. I can't imagine he would do such a layout for a publication he has never heard that goes to a group of people he does not know anything about. Jeff In a message dated 8/30/2003 6:51:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Same with Gm Ji, and he lives here in the US. > > Everytime something about him appears in TKD Times, he is not aware of it > until I or someone else mentions it to him. His next > question is usually... > would you send me a copy so I can read it? --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GM Ji and TKD Times To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I don't understand this statement. Wasn't there just a cover story and > interview with him in TKD Times a few months back. > > I can't imagine he would do such a layout for a publication he has never > heard that goes to a group of people he does not know anything about. Yes, he is aware of TKD Times, but he doesn't receive it, buy it or read it. He knew he was being interviewed, but apparently didn't know (or care?) exactly when the article was to appear. I think it appeared several months after the interview occurred (interview done in January 2002). When he was told what statements were attributed to him in the article, his comment was "baloney". Remember who set this whole thing up. I wonder if he is still in an undisclosed location in the middle east... :) More is available in the list archives when this was discussed at length. And why am I doing this on a Saturday night??? :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest