Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:52:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #373 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Dan certs (Ray Terry) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Magazine_Cover_Story_Policies_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Networking_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Sword_Work_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. RE: USTU Certification conversion cost (Piotr Bernat) 6. Re: KKW blackbelt needed for Olympics? nah (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 7. Taekwondo Times (Ali Alnasser) 8. Testing Fees (Richard Zaruba) 9. kukkiwon dan certificates (Eddie Urbistondo) 10. Front Covers (Rudy Timmerman) 11. Software (Sheree Goldstein) 12. Require info on any TKD (ITF) Schools in Christchurch, NZ (Neil Abbott) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Dan certs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Finally I have been reading the posts on USTU versus KKW certs and > here's my take. I'm too old for the Olympics and have loads of fun at > the AAU nationals so I don't need a KKW cert. All of my current > competative atheletes have access to AAU nationals, and Junior > Olympics. I guess if any of them REALLY wanted to go all the way for > the Olympics they would need a KKW blackbelt. Didn't they change the Dan cert requirement somewhat recently so that any Dan cert is accepted for local/national level competition? Can't recall the details. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 07:33:02 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Magazine_Cover_Story_Policies_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Lyle: "......I feel Tae Kwon Do times should change there policy .I feel they should only put on the cover of there magazine legitimate instructors. I feel they should research the people they put on the cover. I under stand its a business but they should not allow people to claim something they are when there not .Example Tom Merritt a 7th Dan! Who gave it to him? Not a TKD master so how is he a 7th Dan TKD master?There are to many honest TKD instructors that worked hard and many years to achieve there rank.So why allow this to happen ?After all isn't Taekwondo More then just money?....." I don't necessarily disagree with you but I do have a little different take on this. Personally I think the magazines need to be just a bit more up- front about their policies. Some people seem to think that I am dead-set against using KMA commercially and thats not exactly true. It IS true that I am not a big fan of commercial KMA, but my issue is more with HOW they do business than the fact that they do business at all. From what I have seen a lot of this has to do with implication. Let me give a couple of examples. Its a pretty well established practice that if a person has accrued enough schools under him, should he decide to align with an organization the head of that organization will commonly award an administrative rank such as a 7th, 8th or 9th. Dan. This seems to be what drives the arguement for interpreting "kwan" as "style" rather than school. These guys can't wait to be the head of their own lineage--- but thats a topic for another day. The point I am making is that these guys who receive the administrative belt "forget" to tell folks that the belt is administrative, thus allowing folks to conclude that the belt is a reflection of their techincal skill. BIG difference. OK, now lets look at the magazine cover. Seeing someone on the front of a magazine, to me, suggests that this person is influential or has made some singular advancement for the good of MA. Put another way, the person showcased is a mover and a shaker in the KMA community and has just done something stupendous for the good of the community. The magazine allows me to conclude this by not telling me that said showcased artist actually paid $$ to get his mug on the front and he has not actually done anything more than garnered his 15 minutes of fame for that particular issue. To make matters worse, the material that is presented, too often, is boilerplate bio stuff that, once published, gets routinely recirculated over and over. This means that if I present myself one way in the first article, I can pretty much count that the same material (true or false) will show up time and again. One last thing and I'll shut-up. I'm real sorry that these magazines are on short financial leashes. However, I still think they are responsible for checking their facts before putting them to press. I STILL have not heard if the ranks and standings I saw reported in TKDT ARE actually acknowledged by the KHF Board or if that was yet one more piece of largesse by renegade KHF members. If John is still in Lurk Mode, I'd like to hear his thoughts. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 07:37:41 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Networking_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jason: ".....Thanks again to everyone who came out. It was great fun....." And thanks for giving recognition where recognition is due, thanks for letting us know that you had a great time, and thanks for keeping your name in front of us so we get to know you better. Over the months I think it is important that folks occasionally come out of LM to let us know they are still there and what is happening with them. Its also a great service to folks like Mr. Wicker, Mac, JR, Rudy and so forth that we let them know publicly that their efforts are much appreciated. Thanks again. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 07:43:11 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Sword_Work_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: "..... Master Dennis McHenry WILL however represent USKMAF as our head master for us Tang Soo Do folks, so look for a good emphasis on Tang Soo Do and a little sword work from both of us :-)...." Sounds like things are really going to be hopping down there. BTW: I recently published my Kum Bup curriculum on my website (www.midwesthapkido.com) under the 4th degree BB listing. The material is still under construction but I mention this incase anyone wants to critique what they see or would like additional information. Material for 3rd, 2nd, and 1st will be coming over the next few weeks. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Piotr Bernat" To: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:03:53 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: USTU Certification conversion cost Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I would like to know how the average per capita income compares between > Korea and the USA. That should be factored in. > > Also consider the cost of an ITF 3rd dan. The same prices apply for e.g. East European countries, where this income is much lower than both in South Korea and the USA. US$ 120 can be as much as half of a monthly worker's salary here. Piotr Bernat www.taekwondo.prv.pl --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:08:56 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KKW blackbelt needed for Olympics? nah Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net " I guess if any of them REALLY wanted to go all the way for the Olympics they would need a KKW blackbelt." actually, sir, due to the efforts of some committed folks, that is no longer true. i believe it was arlene limas who came in without a KKW, fought the rule, along with the help from some folks who didnt believe the koreans were following the amateur athletics act, and won. a kkw is no longer required to fight in the olympics. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1-573-673-2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Ali Alnasser" To: Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 01:13:44 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo Times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I never thought of Taekwondo Times as being a very reliable source of information in the first place. I've read articles that were not very accuracte regarding dates, names, places, etc. I also would not look to them as being my only source of information. It's pretty much the same faces always on the cover. IMHO [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:52:40 -0500 From: Richard Zaruba To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing Fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While we are on the subject of testing fees, I would like to know how much people paid for their testing fees in the underbelt ranks up through 1st degree. The only testing fees we now have at my school is the association fees for dan testing under the WKSA. The fee for the WKSA 1st degree is $350 and that is the only testing fee charged during their underbelt training. I know of students in my area that have tested in TKD and HKD that are required to pay a minimum of $25 per stripe and $50 per belt with a $500 1st degree testing fee. They test an average of one time every one to two months. I realize this is a touchy subject for some I am just interested in how other schools around the nation compare. Sincerely, Rich _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba Department of Anatomy & Cell Biology School of Medicine and Health Science University of North Dakota 501 North Columbia Road P.O. Box 9037 Grand Forks, ND 58202-9037 zaruba@medicine.nodak.edu 701.777.2576 work 701.777.2477 fax --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Eddie Urbistondo" To: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:28:23 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] kukkiwon dan certificates Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Therefore, respect for KKW black belts went down the drain. I asked my black belt candidates a question recently, which one would they prefer: an easy test with a good KKW certificate (knowing that the level there will be disastrous and even people who can't tell Taeguk 5 from Taeguk 8 will pass) or having a good test, but through an independent federation, with their black belt certificate. No one chose Kukkiwon, even if we still offer our students a chance to test both ways..." I don't understand why would a test be easy? I offer my students KKW certification as well as my own. All testing is done according to our schools standards and requirements that I set. The KKW or any other organization does not dictate how or what I require for my schools tests. The KKW is just an organization that I use for the certification. To me the only certificate that is worth a damn is the one YOUR INSTRUCTOR SIGNS AND GIVES YOU. Master Urbistondo --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:36:10 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Front Covers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lyle writes: > I feel Tae Kwon Do times should change there policy .I feel they > should only > put on the cover of there magazine legitimate instructors. I feel > they should > research the people they put on the cover. I under stand its a > business... Hello Lyle: As you said, it IS a business, and therefore selling copies IS the bottom line. The alternative is to have NO magazine at all to represent Korean martial arts. With e-zines and other factors, magazine sales have dropped dramatically in the last few years, and many good martial art magazines have vanished because of declining sales. The cover is one of the ways magazines help drive up their sales, and believe it or not there IS a selection process that goes on before a front cover is assigned... ensuring adequate sales demands it! Another way to ensure sales is to provide food for thought to readers, and that can be done in a number of ways including, but not limited to: interesting interviews, controversy, and self-help articles. In other words, a magazine has to offer enough material to satisfy everyone, and that includes stuff some readers do not like (but will put up with). As far as outright purchase of a front cover, I am not sure if this is entirely correct. I personally did not have to pay for anything when I had my front cover done; however, I am sure that the backing of a large organization (whose many students purchase the mag) helps a tremendous amount. In fact, it is likely one of the deciding factors, because sales ARE the bottom line. Having said that, an organization can only push its people to purchase magazines so far on loyalty alone, and then the mag has to sell itself by providing readers with interesting articles. With a nondescript personality on the cover, or lack of good copy to go with it, the magazine may not sell well to the rest of the potential buyers. A factor many folks forget is that the magazine has a duty to its advertisers; and, if the magazine does not reach a larger audience than a particular group there is a danger of advertising not reaching the desired market for those who purchase the ads. Even if it is not perfect for everyone, I for one am happy that we still have a magazine that mainly covers Korean martial arts. To have a magazine like the one you and many others hope for, it would have to be a non profit journal. Producing a journal is a very costly process that would need the financial backing of many, and along with that would come the inevitable bickering and political pushing and shoving that could end the entire project before it gets off the ground. Given the wonderful way Korean martial arts groups get along these days, I give such a project a zero chance of surviving beyond a first issue:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Sheree Goldstein To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:00:24 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Software Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Our school uses MAS. You can check it out at http://www.championsway.com/ . It has the pictures, the birthdays, the card swipe, everything you've requested. Sheree Goldstein Retail Analyst CRS Retail Systems 15 Governor Drive Newburgh, NY 12550 (845) 567-1234 X4476 SGoldstein@crsretail.com Fax: (845) 567-1244 The information contained in this message is confidential and proprietary information that belongs to CRS Retail Systems, Inc. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by replying to his/her e-mail address noted above and delete the message. Thank you. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Neil Abbott" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:25:51 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Require info on any TKD (ITF) Schools in Christchurch, NZ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All, Two people from the TKD school I attend are emigrating from the UK to Christchurch, New Zealand in early November. The upshot is that they are keen to continue training once they arrive, and would like any information on ITF affiliated TKD schools in their area. I said I'd put a request for info on this mailing list for them, and pass along any suggestions (knowing what a sage and well connected bunch you lot are :D ) please help. Thanks in advance (and in proxy) for any help you may be able to provide. Sincerely, Neil Abbott. _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest