Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:03:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #377 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. WTF Taekwondo in the UK (George Ashiru) 2. Rank and Certification (Stickfighter27@cs.com) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Baby_and_the_bath_water_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. why taekwondo uniform is white? (gaby noufaily) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Regrets?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. testing fees (Charles Richards) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Yes--_Heard_that;_seen_that.?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_One_More_Time_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. Free black belts (Ray Terry) 10. Re: WTF Taekwondo in the UK (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Olympics (SallyBaughn@aol.com) 12. Chungju World Martial Arts Festival (A. Boyd) 13. Belt fees (A. Boyd) 14. Ministry (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:58:49 -0700 From: "George Ashiru" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF Taekwondo in the UK Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have have studied Taekwondo for 27 years, with 22 of these directly according to Kukkiwon rules. I have the 6th Dan black belt to show for it, from several grandmasters in the UK and US, however I have never believed in the Kukkiwon certification scheme, though I first got certification from them almost two decades ago. Though I am a member of the BTCB, this is because my instructor GM Jong Hee Yoon, belongs there, rather than because of their Kukkiwon/WTF credentials. At the end, what counts is that whereever I go, people want to see what makes me a 6th Dan. If they are impressed, they never ask if I have this or that certificate, but they do like to know who taught me. The KKW certification scheme is designed to transfer loyalties to Korea and the KKW/WTF thus stripping Masters from the recognition for producing outstanding students. Master George Ashiru ------------------------------------------------------------ http://Game.37.com/ <--- Free Games http://newJoke.com/ <--- J O K E S ! ! ! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Stickfighter27@cs.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:04:19 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rank and Certification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Oh my goodness, are you kidding me! Why the high prices for Dan ranks? I can't see why a piece of paper for certification would cost so much, I mean its not like your earning a degree of science from a collage or something. I know alot of people thing that is kinda the same thing, and I disagree. My orginization once you make black belt its given to you on an honorary base. Meaning our black belts are "FREE"! the lower colored ranks are no more than $35 at top price. I feel as far as instruction goes, I get just as good as instruction then any school that would charge a rediculous fee like that. WOW. Cory Ballinger Indiana Martial Arts Academy --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:54:01 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Baby_and_the_bath_water_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear George: ".......Just wondering if this publication still deserves my money and attention......" Every publication--- every website----every discussion Net deserves money and attention. Maybe I don't agree with the position, and maybe there are egregious errors being committed, but it is most important that we keep communication in the KMA open. IMVHO I believe that many of the painful things happening in the TKD and HKD communities could occur only because people were not allowed to communicate, or individuals refrained from communicating. Not every pub is going to get up to the editorial level of JOURNAL OF ASIAN MARTIAL ARTS or DRAGON TIMES, but lets keep supporting the folks who make the effort. I personally don't have much use for a lot of the floatsum I see in BLACK BELT but I support their right to publish said stuff. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "gaby noufaily" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:03:48 +0300 Subject: [The_Dojang] why taekwondo uniform is white? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wonder why most of martial art uniforms are white,karate,taekwondo,jiujitsu,.... Does anyone have any information? thanks gaby _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:02:48 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Regrets?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dave: ".....I have some razor strops for sale cheap. I know there will be many of you not wanting to slit your wrists with dull blades... Buy them online at davewellersrazorstropsforsalecheap.com...." Thank you for your kind offer. Unfortunately I have been given until Noon today (Thursday) to apologize to Richard for my deportment on BUDO-SEEK so its a safe bet that I won't be present to hear the stupendous news. The other day my grandkids crawled into my truck and pretended to drive it as it stood parked in the driveway. Much bouncing on the seat and wild swings of the steering wheel; much excited chatter and fantasy stuff. Is it so different when individuals buy their way to various positions in the KMA? Lots of attention-drawing and no real improvement to the arts. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:05:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] testing fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Exit Lurk mode OK I have to comment on gup test fees. I don't understand why the scale for gup fees is graduated. Basically you have a belt and a certificate, plus mark-up. I can see Dan testing at $150 or more becuase, usually a guest master is involved, and hopefully a NGB certificate fee of around $100, so with a new heavyweight dobohk and an embroidered belt even $250 seems very reasonable for a Cho Dan exam. Two years ago I started a No-test fee structure and I love it because it simplifies logistics, and all my parents love it. They are totally OK with about $5 more per month in tuition, so I guess you could say my gup test fee is $20. My hard costs are about $0.50 for printing color certificates, and $3 average for a belt. I charge $150 for the Cho Dan Exam and award an embroidered belt, the USKMAF certificate and a heavyweight dobohk. Return to lurk mode Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:09:20 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Yes--_Heard_that;_seen_that.?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jason: "...... This whole KKW thing is political in nature and wrong as far as which Americans can represent the US in the Olympics. The KKW may ser another valid purpose and a good one, but strongly disagree with the current arrangement....." Yes, and a little while back Ray mentioned the Shotokan vs Shotokan of America vs Nishiyama's organization. Of course, its political! But, there was also a darker side. The rules as they were argued back and forth also influenced the degree to which non-Japanese could participate in higher levels of competition. Some of the older folks here on the Net may recall the mess that arose when Frank Smith competed internationally and was stomping the Japanese competition time and again. MAJOR embarrassment!! I'm not surprised that the Koreans would organize things a bit to give themselves a bit of cover at the International or high-profile events. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:18:46 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_One_More_Time_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Robert: ".....The fact is that the KKW is a quasi department of the ROK government(much as the ITF was controlled and parts still are by the North)....." WHO oversees this. WHO in the government performs this service. This is about the fourth time I have heard that some MA group bears the imprimateur of the Republic of Korea government. Will somebody please tell me WHO does this. Personally, I don't think there is such an authority. I think its one of those urban mythes that maybe had some validity at one time but no longer has an official connection. Afterall, the World Kido Federation advertised this in their magazine notices. What difference did it make? Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Free black belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > My orginization once you make black belt its given to you on an honorary > base. > Meaning our black belts are "FREE"! What org are you a member of? Never heard of free black belts. Either in the KMAs or the FMAs. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] WTF Taekwondo in the UK To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The KKW certification scheme is designed to transfer loyalties to > Korea and the KKW/WTF ... How would the above lead to the following??? > ... thus stripping Masters from the recognition > for producing outstanding students. Just because their signature isn't on the KKW paper? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:37:46 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Olympics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: << Anyone know what happens with Judo, inside and outside the US? Just curious. >> I dunno, but I'll bet it's not nearly as messed up as TKD. : ) Sally --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:46:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Chungju World Martial Arts Festival Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been to the Festival in Chungju (choong-joo) twice now and had mixed reactions. I like the workshops and the real style vs style events. I don't like the showy public demonstrations or the marketing hype. I love the roasted pig on a spit. Last year sword arts were all the rage with a bunch of new ones coming out of the woodwork. Lots of silat and taekkyun groups were in evidence as well. The Festival's weakness from my point of view is that they arrange regional MA days and run the program for a week. Most of the unusual stuff runs on weekdays and no one gets to see it. Bright spots are the good sound, large stage, huge screen TV and the roasted pig on a spit. (Did I mention the pigs and spits?) Apples are a big part of Chungju's ecomomy as well and they are worth the trip all by themselves. The town is easy to get to and easy to navigate. The Festival is running right now and ends on the first day of Chusok (Wednesday, September 10th) if I remember correctly. I don't think it is likely I will make it this year as I have to participate in a demonstration elsewhere over the weekend. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:54:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Belt fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Why does it strike people as logical that belt fees should increase with rank? No matter how high a person rises and no matter how 'important' a personage must be brought in to judge you, *doing so* is their duty. I'm sure this will change but the way it works in HDGD in Korea is that local tests are 20,000 won and national tests are 200,000 won. This fee covers whatever new stuff you might get (belts, certs, uniforms, etc), the cost of the location, transportation to the location, the material you cut at the location, and the time of the judges. In my opinion, this seems a whole lot more appropriate than making someone pay escalating costs for the same experience (a belt test). Charging more for a higher rank strikes me as a slap in the face as a "reward" for the students' continuing dedication. YMMV. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Ministry Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ".....The > fact is that the KKW is a quasi department of the ROK government(much as the > ITF was controlled and parts still are by the North)....." > > WHO oversees this. WHO in the government performs this service. Perhaps the Ministry of Sports and Culture. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest