Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:56:04 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #392 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Hankido and Hankumdo (Klaas Barends) 2. 3/1/2 yr old Black Belts (ProteinNerd@aol.com) 3. A black belt is what you make of it, be it Diaper or Sun Dance scars (Burdick, Dakin R) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_John,_Bruce,_George_and_Rudy.....?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Jackson Seminar Report! (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:the_teacher_relationship?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Jackson Seminar (Lawren Hasten) 8. Jackson Mississippi on a Saturday night (rich hodder) 9. Downunda (Rudy Timmerman) 10. Great weekend in Jackson! (Wicker, H. Keith) 11. Back Home (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:10:43 +0200 From: Klaas Barends To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hankido and Hankumdo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > How many others study Hankido, Hankumdo? I do > From what I have looked > into, it > doesn't seem as plentiful as some Korean arts. It seems big in Germany > though. > Many web pages. Hankido is fairly new, and largely misunderstood (I guess). That would be the reason why there aren't that many Hankido practioners around. Even in Korea there aren't that many people, you could consider Hankido masters. The Hankumdo curriculum is somewhat marginal, that's why you see a lot of Korean teachers connected to the IHF, training Hae Dong Kum Do as well. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: ProteinNerd@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:16:14 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 3/1/2 yr old Black Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I really dont have the words to express how ridiculous this is, seems to be another example of how TKD is losing credibility, Just makes me happier that I switched to HKD, but still seems to cheapen my 2nd Degree in TKD. This Horangee Taekwondo Academy has a lot to answer for.... wonder if any of them read the DD and would care to explain themselves. martin --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:35:33 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] A black belt is what you make of it, be it Diaper or Sun Dance scars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Manuel wrote: Do I understand this right? A 3 1/2 year old a Black Belt? Common you got to be kidding me, right? A child's attention span is not long enough for that. I heard of people "giving away" Black Belts but this is gone too far... My reply: 3 1/2 is too far? Hmm. I might think that 7 is too far, or perhaps even 12. Or I might venture to say that a black belt is just a belt. Think of it as a patch on the scout uniform -- it is just a motivator, not the skill itself. The belt is, by itself, meaningless. It is the training that makes it worth anything. Which means that this child's black belt is worth about $3.00. Sometimes I'm really tempted to buy a red & white belt for my 5 year old -- it would be priceless to see her walk into one of the local tournaments with it! Ian Cyrus writes: Gone are the days when the "tradition" of martial arts and stuff like lineage meant something. My reply: Ian makes a good point. Our lineage is worth how we value it. Ian seems to value it highly, and so will his students. I've been working with my iaido instructor this weekend (he flew in from Japan), and having a blast. It is SOOOOO nice to be the student again! He's been spending the weekend showing me where I've screwed up with my students, and I'm loving it. I'm off the hot seat! I mention this because he is a very traditional guy, and is one of the few reasons I can still take some martial arts seriously. Stay sane folks, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:40:59 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_John,_Bruce,_George_and_Rudy.....?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net So is it such a stretch to get for what one asks for? Given the recent postings it actually doesn't seem to be. Apparently it has an awful lot to do with peoples' expectations for their arts and their organizations. Maybe this is where we need to start. 1.) CAN an organization take a firm line regarding what it is and what it does? I think, maybe, yes. George gave an excellent example of an organization that identifies itself along a particular line of training and philosophy. From what I can tell of Georges' post this organization says that it offers an organized approach to a particular art, maintains quality control over that approach and invites people of the same bent to join while asking people who don't share that vision to leave. Is that so hard? In this way, people who remain get what I think the chief selling point of an organization is--- to have an increased probability of connecting with like-minded individuals on a regular basis. 2.) A successful organization requires, IMVHO, a pro-active involvement of leadership, engagement of more than a single person in settling goals and operations, and regular in-put from membership regarding what they need from the organization vs what they are willing to give. I think that recent history has shown that when an organizational leader becomes distanced from the daily workings of the membership, establishes himself as the sole authority on goals and operations, or compromises the organizations' mission for his personal agenda the organization immediately experiences a tailspin. 3.) Sadly, I am not so sure that the Korean members of the KMA are willing to accept a model based on some of the ideas that I have mentioned. Maybe they are but the recent track record suggests otherwise. If what I am seeing in the Hapkido arts is accurate, these KMA are slowing devolving into, or revealing themselves to be nothing more than sole proprietary companysd rather than "federations" or "associations". They avoid defined curriculum so as to remain as "elastic"--- read also "inclusive"---- to as many different practitioners as possible. They avoid defined policy so as to remain as "non-offensive" to as many potential members as possible. 4.) Finally--- why continue to beat this drum? Its not like I am a big proponent of KMA organizations in ANY event. OK. I'm not. But look what happens when we, the practitioners of KMA, decide NOT to concern ourselves with such things. You couldn't drag me to Florida on a bet, and the hair- brains that keep that Network of Personality Cults going are well passed caring if the what is stated has only the smallest amount of truth around which is wrapped much embellishment and fabrication. SO--- I would like to issue an invitation. I joined the USKMAF and remain connected to Rudy and the NKMAA. I have shared what I believe JR and Rudy are doing right for their people. I am hoping that individuals who have joined an organization that has really met their needs take time to identify what their organization is and what it is doing right for them. George got us off to a good start. Anybody else? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: "The Dojang" Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:52:54 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jackson Seminar Report! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We just got back from the GM West's Jackson seminar and we had a great time. There were plenty of great martial artists there who were willing to share their knowledge and just had fun. I took three students with me, 2 yellow belts and an orange belt and they loved the experience, particularly the Kali/Escrima sessions with Master Hodder. There were several training sessions offered such as: Stick Fighting Cane Techniques Ki Breathing Kick Defense Close Quarters Techniques Pressure Point Striking Basic Hapkido Motion Stick Defense Korean Language Training Sweeps Speed Takedowns Just to name a few. In addition I got to meet several other instructors and exchange ideas etc. The seminar was truly a great experience; we will definitely be going back in the spring. If you haven't tried one, I highly recommend it. I've posted some pictures on our site from Sunday's training sessions. If you're interested, check them out at: http://www.natkd.com/gallery.htm Regards, Jason E. Thomas Chief Instructor North Austin Taekwondo Club www.natkd.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:54:35 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:the_teacher_relationship?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ian: "......Gone are the days when the "tradition" of martial arts and stuff like lineage meant something. As in the case of my organization (ICF), it has remained very small because I do not accept new members, especially if there are 1st -3rd dans, unless I am clear as to why the relationship with their last teacher failed........" It amazes me the number of important points you hit in just the couple of paragraphes you wrote. I, too, am a traditionalist, and I don't pretend that its a path that everyone would want to walk. However, you hit a few of the qualities of this path that I think need to be considered by more liberal practitioners even if they don't decide to pursue a more traditional bent to their training goals. The most important is the personal relationship with the teacher. As I think you may have suggested in your post, such a relationship does not have to be a personality cult. What I believe is that it DOES need to reflect the belief by the student that they have found a teacher whose way of living reflects what the student wants out of life. That student believes this enough to want to accept guidance and allow themselves to be mentored by the individual they have found. Flipping the coin over, I believe that the teacher needs to be willing to see his students as more than just income or cheap advertising. I believe the teacher needs to be seriously concerned that his students are getting what they are seeking from their lives and that he wants them to have better lives, believing intensely that what he teaches holds the key to that better life. What I am describing is not your typical "smile and a handshake" relationship a lot of school owners have with their students, or organizations have with their memberships. It takes commitment and involvement on both sides. I'm just not sure that the population we are talking about in the KMA are up to this kind of relationship any more. Maybe its gone the way of the dodo bird. Whatcha think? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:46:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Lawren Hasten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Jackson Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings Dojang Digest, I'm Lawren Hasten, a 1st Dan in HKD, and TKD studying under Grand Master Hodder. I've been lurking here for a little while, and just wanted to say thank you to all of the instructors and assistants for your hard work and excellent instruction at Master West's Seminar in Jackson. This was my second time, and it was even more fun than the first. I learned so much, have soooo many bruises and very sore muscles......It was great. You were all just amazing, as were the rest of the attendees. See you in the Spring. Lawren Hasten --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "rich hodder" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:07:27 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jackson Mississippi on a Saturday night Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net just got back from Master West's KMA seminar in Jackson, what a time!!! I think everybody had fun and learned a lot. You have to kind of sit back and scratch your head though.....All these people traveling to Jackson, MS for 3 days of abuse??? and enjoying every minute of it. I know that the crew I brought out from Seabrook, TX have had big smiles on their faces since Friday evening, not even a good palm strike could remove them. It was very nice to see all my old friends and to meet new ones, such as Master Jason Thomas and his students. I look forward to seeing everybody again in the Spring. For those who couldn't make this seminar, Master Instructor Charles Richards is having his 3rd annual Moja Kwan soire north of Atlanta on the 26th and 27th of September and Hodder's Korean Martial Arts is hosting Master West on October 25th in Seabrook, TX. If you are in either area at the time, come on down. Let me know if you need information or registration material at my personal e-mail address. You can find it in the school section of the USKMAF website at www.hapkido.com Have fun Rich Hodder p.s. Bruce I am glad you finally got your bags back from the airlines. _________________________________________________________________ Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. https://broadband.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:27:44 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Downunda Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings everyone: I'll be away for the next couple of weeks visiting my good friend Geoff Booth. I have time to answer my e-mail while I'm away, but I'll get to it as soon as I return. Sincerely, Rudy W. Timmerman, National Korean Martial Arts Association --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:34:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Great weekend in Jackson! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To all DD members, I just wanted to say that I had a great time at Master J.R. West's seminar in Jackson MS this past weekend. Master West was a wonderful host as always. Congratulations to Master Don Kirsch for receiving his promotion to 5th Dan HKD. I wanted to thank GM West, Master Kirsch and Master Instructors Borucki, Mangum, Probst, and Mr. Sims and Mr. Peacock for their patience and willingness to spend time with me off line answering all my HKD questions. I highly recommend attending a seminar hosted by Master West if you get the chance!! Thanks, Keith Wicker Wicker's Korean Martial Arts, USKMAF League City, TX --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:37:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Back Home Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear List, Stepping out of lurke mode on our return from over yonder in Mississippi. This year I was able to bring 3 students including a 7th gup and a 3 year student who is now 3rd gup. Needless to say they were in awe all weekend and pumped up every nite after the sessions. We had two wonderfull evenings of TSD talk over dinners with Master Mac, and Master Thomas was kind enough to share some digital hyungs with me. Many of the "between seession" conversations turned out to be just as valuable as the sessions. I think if I combine what I learned from Master Ricks, MI Watkins, and Mr. Sexton, the reading of the five elemnts texts and OMD/TCM references will be more interesting this time around. Kudos to Dr. Tsao and Dr. Suzane for a well rounded session on "women's issues." Special thanks to GM West for a short walk down memory lane regarding his training at the end of the Saturday Sessions. And a special thanks to GM West for having Dr. Kimm available with books. Two of my students now have autographed copies of the little Hapkido book :-) Extra special thanks to Dr. Tsao and Dr. Dave for working on their day off to look at my ankle. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest