Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:02:48 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #400 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Mrs. Renee West (S. H. WEE) 2. Kettlebells for martial arts (Ray Terry) 3. Master Renee West (J T) 4. Schools in Syracuse, New York (Ken McDonough) 5. Junior Black Belts (fnsaw1) 6. YOUNG BLACK BELTS (Tkdsid@aol.com) 7. RE: 10 minutes/Dr. Kimm (Chris Holmes) 8. big ken's request (rich hodder) 9. Baby Black Belts... (Eric Walker) 10. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Black_Belt_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 11. Master Renee West (Mary Braud) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "S. H. WEE" To: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:17:01 +0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Mrs. Renee West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master West, I was very sorry to hear of your wife's death. although thre's never anything that can be said that will make it better, but I just want to let you know that you have my deepest sympathy. Take care S. H. Wee shinhoe@pc.jaring.my --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Kettlebells for martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net fwiw... Kettlebells: The Martial Artist's Strength Tool of Choice, by Steve Cotter http://www.kbnj.com/KettlebellsForMartialArtists.htm Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 07:26:14 -0700 (PDT) From: J T To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Renee West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For centuries man has sought out the secret to immortality. From conjuring magical snake oil to Ponce De Leon's travel to the new world in search of the Fountain of Youth. However it seems that after all of that, one woman, Mst. Renee West, was able to achieve all that they have failed to do. As I read all the tributes to Mrs. West I couldn't help but think how her name will forever be on the lips and ears of all her students and loved ones. Since day one of knowing GM West, I never heard his name mentioned without hearing the mentioning of the 'meanest woman in hapkido' right next to it. She was loved and respected by all that met her. Even I who never met her personally, felt I knew her from listening to all of those who talked about her. Up on hearing of her passing, I felt my heart sink, for I knew that not only the hapkido world, but our world in general lost a great person. I regret that I never took the opprotunity to meet her in person at the many seminars. I always kept in mind, that there would always be a next time. How foolish that was. So in parting I leave you all with this final thought; In such a time in sadness I try to comfort with likening someone's passing to that of people who depart from us at the airport. Though we see the tears and saddness of people as they watch their loved one leave for their journey, we forget that there will be many happy warm faces of people who will great them for their arrival. So to GM West, his family, students and friends, my family's thoughts and prayers are with you. With deepest respect, Jeremy M. Talbott __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:45:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Schools in Syracuse, New York Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't know if this request was previously posted. However, I have accepted a position in Syracuse to be closer to my family. Please advise on "any" good schools in Syracuse. Schools can be boxing (I know there is a boxing school on Waters Street, downtown), Hapkido, Tang Soo Do, Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Escrima/Arnis, etc. I know there is a Krav Magna (sic) school there also. Please let me know. Yes, I am aware that it snows alot is Syracuse. Thanks, Big Ken --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:34:00 -0800 From: fnsaw1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Junior Black Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On the topic of Junior Black Belts, it is my experience that many schools conduct promotion tests every 3 months. Mathematically a 5 year old will make Black Belt before he/she turns 9. I have been in martial arts for 27 years and teaching for 17. When I received my Black Belt I had been training for several years (7) and it was a prestigious rank to hold (it should be that way now). Many schools contract teach, testing every three months: this should be title as Martial Business not Martial Arts. There are many BBs out there that do not know what it means to be a Black Belt. The rest of the non-martial world expects a Black Belt to be a professional martial artist. That is why so many times, now, when stated "I am a black belt in _____" the response is "that's nice". And when you look at a 9 year old 2nd Dan, "wow" is not the first thing that comes to mind. What about the advanced techniques, what about the thesis, what about the breaking, what about the honor, what about the integrity: have so many forgotten the.....way? Humbly yours, Stan Wright 6th Dan, Golden Dragon TaeKwon Do Fairbanks, Alaska Stanley A. Wright Admin. Assistant ABNP (907) 474-6553 --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Tkdsid@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:42:28 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] YOUNG BLACK BELTS Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am also one of those guys that has a problem with toddlers in black belts. As a taekwondo player, I feel we give black belts way too quickly irrespective of age. In a recent visit to a Shotokan dojo, I found that they give black belts after 5 years to adults and after 7 years to kids. They promote fairly quickly through the dans however. This is more to my liking. Sid Rubinfeld- First dan Age 54! --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Chris Holmes" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:47:25 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: 10 minutes/Dr. Kimm Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all, I just wanted to chime in on what Mr. Sims wrote about spending 10 minutes in conversation with Dr. Kimm. Although my opinion is biased I can honestly say that throughout my training in martial arts I have met many GMs and many masters. Dr. Kimm is so far beyond them both in of techniques, ability, and history that it is amazing. He holds so much information about Korean Martial Arts in his head and he can recall events from 30-40 years ago like they were yesterday. Sometimes I have trouble recalling yesterday. He is the real deal a true warrior scholar and he sets the standard to which all of us can only dream of achieving. Being a student and instructor of Han Mu Do, I am able to realize how fortunate I am to have Dr. Kimm as my Grandmaster. Being thrown by him is a mind altering experience as well, I'm not huge but weighing about 200lbs it felt like Dr. Kimm was spinning me over his head much like a pizza guy throws the dough. He was demontrating a technique from ssirem and I still have not met anyone else who can pull that technique off. If anyone is looking for a phenomenal instructor and martial art you need to take a good look at Han Mu Do and Dr. Kimm. In addition to Dr. Kimm, we have great instructors including Master Steve Kincade, Chief Master's Donald Kimm and Jamie Serio, and Master Bob Banham to name just a few. The next seminar is Nov. 8-9 but I don't have any details about what areas will taught but it's always been well worth my time and money, I always come away with something I can use. Thanks Chris Holmes _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "rich hodder" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:47:42 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] big ken's request Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All I can say is, Just stay away from anything that says United Martial Arts Centers or UMAC _________________________________________________________________ Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Eric Walker" To: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:29:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Baby Black Belts... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I gotta put in my two cents worth here; Mr. Beach said, How do I join the IBAK? I have old enough underwear, too, honest I do... And Chaney Hardman said, I think the other unintended consequence of the promotion of babies to black belt is that they will usually be bored of it all after a few years, and so move on to other things. Soccer, football, or what have you. Not that this is necessarily bad, but they would never have been given a chance to see what martial arts are truly about. BTW I've been training for over 6 years and am finally nearing black test. I know hapkido generally takes longer than taekwondo, but shoot-fire, it's not so much demeaning as it is diminishing, sort of turning "martial arts" into contact "sports". Sure it's cute to see your baby running around in his funny little pj's, but what is it that he's actually learning? He's too young to even grasp the concept of what it is he's doing, sport or art. His attention span is miniscule along with his size. I recall a situation I once witnessed at, y'all ready for this?, the "Boggy Bayou Mullet Festival". My friend's 8 year old and his buddy, both BB's, shoving his younger, smaller little sister up against an oak tree. One of them held her hands behind her back, while the other punched her in the back. Dad wasn't paying much attention to anything but his beer, so I took both of these "black belts", one in each hand, plunked them down on the ground and tried to talk to them about what it was that they were doing. They didn't understand, and didn't care about what I had to say. After all I only had a green belt at the time. They were children then and couldn't fathom that what they were doing was completely against what they were supposed to be learning. One of these kids (now they're 14 or 15) is now a "third dan" ATA, and a good, polite kid the other a hoodlum. I agree with Dr. Covington. Children should not be black belts. They should not be allowed past a poom rank until they understand the importance of what it is they learn. Just my $.02 Eric --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:40:34 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Black_Belt_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Klaas: ".....Just curious. What are the concepts of holding a black belt??? Isn't that something you (and many other with you, including me) have made up yourselve?......" Not exactly, but I think I understand what you are saying. I have seen quite a few "traditions" which actually have little to do with KMA, but are simply manifestations of how some people wish that KMA MIGHT have been. For my part, though, wearing a Black Belt does involve one point that needs some serious consideration. That point I am speaking of is "Commitment". When people are first starting out in life its pretty common for authority figures to encourage them to dream large. "What do you want to be when you grow up?" is standard for interactions between kids and adults, and we all get a chuckle as the answers come tumbling out, and change on a daily basis. In time, though, maturity sets in and we begin to move towards those directions which take us down one path or another. If you notice, I don't have much to say about a person who wants to try out various arts to find one that works for them. Its part of the process. In time an individual finds an art that seems to speak to what that person wants as a venue for addressing conflicts in Life. I think that event is recognized by any number of rites of passage. In the MA one learns about an art to the point that they are willing to say "this is what I believe explains how things come together" and someone says "fine, welcome to the club; heres' your badge" and hands them a Black Belt. Now, like any other relationship, this commitment requires loyalty, fidelity, patience and a host of other qualities that make relationships work, and those come with time and dedication. A Black Belt is not something that you wear or even something that you "become", it is something that you decide to be. And if there are folks who believe that a 3 y/o child can make this decision, so be it. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:54:53 -0500 From: Mary Braud To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Organization: Federal Express Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Renee West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A personal loss at any place, any time is difficult to bear. I have mentioned before that I felt this digest is a community. I see emails sharing joy, confusion, and yes, even pain. The amount of condolences posted just reinforces that we are a family, and even though we may not know each other personally, we are connected. I have never had the honor of meeting the West's, but I am deeply saddened on a personal level for Master West and his family. I feel like I know him just through reading posts on this digest. Like so many have posted, my thoughts and prayers are with you, Master West, as you experience this difficult time. I am down in New Orleans, and am with FedEx, so if you need something, please just let me know. Sincerely, Mary Braud [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of mbraud.vcf] --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest