Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:03:09 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #416 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. SV: [The_Dojang] SF schools (Buffy) 2. Meaning of Black Belt? (A. Boyd) 3. re: Levels Of the same dang thing (Lasich, Mark D.) 4. gup levels (Charles Richards) 5. Re: Katana Handle Wrapping (Carl Jenkins) 6. Recommended Black Belts (Curt Nieckarz) 7. Re: SV: [The_Dojang] SF schools (Ray Terry) 8. Seminar Schedule= Mayhem Techniques (Ken McDonough) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Buffy" To: Subject: SV: [The_Dojang] SF schools Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:38:58 +0200 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hmmm...Michael De Alba... ... isn't that the guy who was 5th Dan Hwa Rang Do under GM Joo Bang Lee? ... who made some videos even though his Master kept telling him NO NO NO! ... who did it because he was broke? If his is THAT guy I feel nothing but sadness for him ... he failed ... woundn't do as he was tolled ... a crystal clear example of how you should NOT repay your master for his teaching and trust. Thomas. -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Rudy Timmerman [mailto:kwanjang@sympatico.ca] Sendt: 29. september 2003 16:20 Til: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Emne: [The_Dojang] SF schools Jeremy writes: > There is also GM Michael De Alba's Farang Mu Sul > school in San Fransisco. I believe the website is > www.dsystem.com. I have worked with GM De Alba on > several occasions and he is an spectacular technician > and a well rounded stylist. I highly recommend him. I whole heartedly agree with Jeremy on this one. GM DeAlba is a superb martial artist and a nice gentleman to boot. One would be hard pressed to find a better Instructor. Sincerely, Rudy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:51:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Meaning of Black Belt? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It seems to me that there will be less personal stress for people on the issue of what a black belt means if they add "to me" to the end of the question, "What value does a black belt have?" I don't study Taekwondo and I don't see the sense in having a 3 year old participate in a rank progression which involves memory, however, I do have to wonder why non-Koreans hold so tightly to a stricter and many times more lengthy regimen for attaining 1st dan than Koreans do. From white belt to first dan in TKD can take as little as 10 months in Korea for a person with 0 experience who has walked in off the street. What does a BB mean in that context? The seven-year odyssey is more something I see reserved for a 4th dan here, not first. I have often remarked that I expect an American TKD-stylist to be as good or better than a 4th dan Korean stylist in terms of the raw mechanics of the art, but the Korean has had the benefit of looking at a wider picture and seeing the grand design. How did the BB journey get lengthened and blown-up to such epic proportions? Where did this huge imbalance begin? I wish that the standard for testing involved more of what Charles Richards mentioned instead of "Do two poomse and call me in the morning." Wouldn't it be grand if the real standard was: Is my student good enough for me to want to show my Instructor what I have helped to shape? In my opinion, "Testing Requirements" distract too many students from the journey and get them fixated on the goal. What good is that? Perhaps that is what has so many people upset when they think of the iddy-biddy black belts in a far-flung foreign TKD program. Perhaps it's the seeming devaluation of something that was very personally signigicant by a person with a different set of values. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:08:40 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] re: Levels Of the same dang thing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charlie V wrote: >Can schools like these do whatever they want time and rank wise? >Or must they follow the preset ranks and guidelines? I believe every organization has guidelines on what is "required" for advancement at any given rank. I also believe that regardless of organization, it is up to the Instructor, School Owner, etc. to determine IF a student is ready to test, and IF they demonstrated their "requirements" appropriately at that testing. Yes - there are schools/styles out there that may promote too quickly. However, I believe at some point there will be a quality check: where they "paying customer" will evaluate the value of what they are receiving for what they are paying. If the perceived value is not at, or greater than the hard dollars, most will walk. The martial arts are a journey. It is natural to think that some will get further in a shorter time than others. Some will actively seek advice from their instructors or their kid's instructors, "Can we slow Johnny down a little bit so that he can spend more time on the same material and develop a better sense of confidence before receiving the next belt?" Hmmmmmm, is this why recommended and decided ranks came about? Growth in the arts is a personal issue. Of course there is the ability to perform the physical technique, and perhaps the mental ability to remember names of moves, forms, history, etc. But there is a further development that, for some, is underpinned with confidence, self-esteem, respect, courtesy, integrity, focus, etc. How does one help an individual grow in these areas? A pat on the back, a "good job", high five, a wink, nod, stars, stripes on the belt, testing, leadership opportunities, promotions? And what of these "Honorary Black Belts" that can be seen given to local authorities, etc.? How can anyone justify giving these, based on minimal knowledge of the individual? Again, we have all determined that Black Belt is just a beginning. Given this, I believe most organizations have significantly longer times between testings for Black Belts - a common approach is to wait the number of years as the Dan rank you hold. So, if it takes someone a shorter time to get to the "beginning" than someone else, I think we should recognize the once they've gotten there, the journey becomes more meaningful, and is traveled slower. I have seen some very mature kids, and some very immature adults. Is the objective evaluation of someone's age really such an important factor in deciding if someone is able to perform physical requirements, while living spirit of their particular art? I for one don't think so. I think each student needs to learn and grow and be promoted according to their own goals and abilities. Sorry for rambling. I know I came out against 3 year old black belts a few weeks ago, and I still believe that is too young. So, even within my own mind it is hard to identify what is "right". It does take kids some time to develop the gross and fine motor skills. So, at a basic level, it is quite hard to picture a 3 year old (or 5 in my son's case), being technically proficient enough to perform all the required techniques to hold their Cho Dan. Again, does every child develop differently? You bet. So, I guess I am back at making the personal journey in the arts as individualized as possible, within the requirements of any given organization. Arrrrrgggggg, I guess this is Um/Yang (Ying/Yang) working at its best! In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:28:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] gup levels Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> The people I was posting about have from what I can tell 14 gup levels with all kinda tapes (4 to be exact), and three levels for each black belt. The worst thing is seeing a stiff belt being removed and replaced by the next highest belt at the bymonthly testings. It isn't wholy their fault, they are just following their system requirements to be a part of that franchise of TaeKwonDo <> Actually I have seen one system that has 18 gup levels (9 belts) plus the ones with the central black stripe with a bi-monthly testing at least it takes 36 months to test to 1st dan instead of 18-30 months. What these guys are getting at is eating the elephant one bite at a time and keeping youth rewarded with lots of small successes, but really...18 belts? I can also see some value in the tape system, in fact I use it. It is a lot easier to withhold a monthly stripe at progress check than failing a student yet my youth still look forward to getting the Hangul for Tang then Soo then Do written on their belts. For an average or above student this takes three months and they test in the 4th month. Nobody tests without the minimum classes or without the third character so some of my five year olds may take 4-7 months to get all three characters. Indeed most of my students old belts are pretty soft when I tie the new ones on. I think the current records are 7 months to go from 10th gup white to 9th gup white/yellow (Brianna started on her 5th birthday) and 8 months to go from green to blue (Jordan from previous post who is now 4th gup purple). Actually Niko has been 10th gup for 9 months. I've seen every thing from one belt (white) for gups to three (white, Green, Red) to 18 belts including camo-belts??? I guess everyone is using what works for them, neh? Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:05:45 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Carl Jenkins To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Katana Handle Wrapping Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Shawn, You may want to try The Sword Forum www.swordforum.com and do a search on handle wrapping or tsukamaki. Not sure about wrapping a bokken though... Take care, Carl Jenkins -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: "Shawn Ritchie" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:38:44 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Katana Handle Wrapping Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am looking for any information on how to wrap sword handles. I make my own training weapons and want to attempt to wrap the handle of my new Bokken. Does anyone out there know where I can find this information. --- Shawn Ritchie --- skjsa@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. -- __--__-- --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:12:30 -0400 From: Curt Nieckarz To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Recommended Black Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been in lurk mode on the DD for a couple of years but recent discussions have forced me out. It wouldn't surprise me if there were some schools that used the probationary, recommended, decided, etc. for monetary reasons but I wanted to pass on what our school does. We are an independent TKD school that practices the ITF style forms created by Gen Choi, Hong Hi. We are not part of any large national or international MA organization. When a student is ready to test for 1st Dan (minimum of 3 years), they undergo a rigorous testing. Upon successful completion of this testing they are awarded their "recomended" black belt. There is a fee for this test. After a minimum of 6 months additional training they may be invited to test for their "decided" black belt. This test is usually less intense than the recommended testing and the candidate must demonstrate improvement in technique and proficiency in their next form. Why the additional 6 months? To show that they have the maturity to be a true black belt. The recommended black belt may be "revoked" at any time if that black piece of cloth around your waist goes to your head. The recommended BB is considered temporary and once you receive your decided BB it is considered permanent - may not be taken away. It seems to work for us. It has nothing to do with mediocre or sub-par technique or additional testing fees. Curt Nieckarz --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: SV: [The_Dojang] SF schools To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hmmm...Michael De Alba... > > ... isn't that the guy who was 5th Dan Hwa Rang Do under GM Joo Bang Lee? > ... who made some videos even though his Master kept telling him NO NO NO! > ... who did it because he was broke? > > If his is THAT guy I feel nothing but sadness for him ... he failed ... > woundn't do as he was tolled ... a crystal clear example of how you should > NOT repay your master for his teaching and trust. Umm, no. Sounds like you've been reading Joo Bang Lee's viewpoint on what happened and no one elses. De Abla brought a great many students to Joo Bang Lee and to HwaRang Do. HwaRang Do repaid him by suing him for releasing HwaRang Do videos that did nothing but spread Joo Bang Lee's name and his copyrighted art. If you ask me it was Joo Bang Lee that failed his student by suing him and failed the rest of the MA world by tying to convince all that Hwarangdo was something other than HwaRang Kwan Hapkido. Sorry... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:53:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar Schedule= Mayhem Techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Martial Arts Fans and Students: I will be headed up the old route 66 from Tulsa to upstate New York. Similar to my main man JR, I will be offering seminars while on the road in my U-Haul. However, the seminars will be decidedly different. I will focus on goofs and gags you can employ in effective ways in case some punk or even your boss wants to do harm to you, etc. For example, subject matter will include: - Using pectin in your bosses coffee (comment= a good one. Will have him running to the bathroom all day). Pectin is also found in apples. - Verbal Judo (when those lousy co-workers are verbally assaulting you, or bringing their home problems to your office Dojo, several key verbal judo techniques will be demonstrated, e.g., the thick New York accent always works, e.g., "You got a problem fella ?" ). - How to prevent car jackings. I have invented a new tool you can use with the touch of a button. You place two simple chain saw blades under the car and press a button. Takes out both legs. A great technique in those tough neighborhoods. Napkins provided free for after attack meals. - The thumb tack routine. This technique was introduced in the movie Kill or Be Killed. - Mini-chain saw technique. I borrowed from Pacino in the shower scene in Scarface. But I added a new twist...this stuff is better than SCARS training. - Taking the bus to work routine. How many of you have been accosted on a bus while going to work by some punk. Well, I adapted the "Bernie" method of using appropriate force. Borrowed from those inane Bronson vigilante movies but adapted to be more stealthy. - Canes and planes. This briefing is worth the price of admission alone. And, you can't get this stuff on QVC. I am not that Susan person selling financial info, but this stuff can bring you home at night. - Fire in the hole routine. This one has something to do with a brown bag, and ...well... it is kind a gross. So be at the seminar. - The tool in the shoe method. I borrowed this from the Get Smart series. Instead of a phone in the shoe, I have devised a method to carry concealed weapons in your shoes. Really works....!!! - Elevator attacks. You have to see this to believe it. - The Drive in Movie scam...oh, sorry, this is when they had many drive in movies. I will delete this subject matter. Only good for the seniors in the class who may remember Drive- Ins. Senior discount provided at my seminar. How many of those martial arts teachers do this ? Only me... - Dirty Harry Tricks. Eastwood Co. sent me their secret scribes based on those great movies...and you don't need the big .44 for these techniques to work. You also get to practice good verbal lines, e.g., "...well do you feel lucky punk ?" - Bagger Vance. Has nothing to do with golf. But you need a gopher. - Added seminar bonus: dirty hits, e.g., eye gouges, knee shots, groin hits, the foot in the Derriere routine...all this. Do they show u that in the DoJang ? I do !!! Look, you get learn a few good techniques at those other seminars, but I give you more bang for the buck. If you sign up early, I will also throw in the following: - Avoiding the sucker punch - Forms are for Tomboys not Cowboys= this is a research paper I did at Indiana University for my PhD in Gym Science and Basket Weaving. - Florida Scams and Has-beens. I will take you with me into a video I created and tell you what places to avoid when in the Sunshine State. And wait, if you sign up now, you also get this: THe Big Ken VegieMatrix...this is the new tool I created that you can also carry on planes. Believe me I travel alot and I got this by those fat security clerks checkin your baggage and stealin your shoes...then you can also use it to dice and slice your opponents. This alone is worth my seminar... Send cash, money orders, and checks to me. Sorry I am not set up for Visa or Mastercard. Write to me privately for more information. Hurry, don't delay, write today. Classes filling up quickly. Seminars location: Joplin, Indianapolis, Jerk Water, Podunk, Bloomington, Peoria, Hershey (chocolate factory tour included), York (free harley toys), and Rochester. Big Ken Productions Not affiliated with Paladin Press. Your crosseyed, bucktoothed, bowlegged, pigeontowed, hunchback with slight drooling problem friend. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest