Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 06:01:11 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #420 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Motivation (Rudy Timmerman) 2. RE: Re: Meaning of a Black Belt (Mark Seidel) 3. Myung tapes (michael tomlinson) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_GM_Myung_Tapes_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Multiple belts per rank (Jeremy Anderson) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TAE_GYUN?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. The Proliferation of Belts (Jeremy Anderson) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Black_Belt_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. Re: WHF Kwang Sik Myung HKD tapes (David N. Beck) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 01:05:36 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Motivation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Manuel writes: > I feel that the Martial Arts in general have sort of slacked off > during the > past three decades that I've been associated with them. Hello Manuel: I too found that in my own class, but then I recently traveled to Australia to find some students who still train as hard as mine ever did. This got me thinking that perhaps it was ME who had slowed down a bit in my expectations from them. Perhaps a bit of both, who knows. In any case, there are still some folks around who want to train hard. I sent out a notice that I would accept five new students, and I made it abundantly clear that I would train them in the old way... Jook Do and all, sleep in the dojang, and do the chores. Within a few hours I had a landslide of e-mails asking to reserve a place. Not saying this is so in your case, but it sure looks like it might have been ME who did not inspire my students for the last few years. It took a trip downunda to get me back on track. Jackson watch out next March, I'll be doing double duty in the parking lot. I best bring more crash dummies too:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Meaning of a Black Belt Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:56:54 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Couldn't agree more; more schools than not if you sign a contract and pay tuition and testing fees you will get a Black Belt weather you deserve it or not, whether you are qualified or not I have seen it hundreds of times and have sat at the testing table and watched substandard performances get the belts from the GM's while proud parents take their videos. In fact in the last 10 years, I can't recall one instance of anyone ever failing. Some schools post on their websites candidates and then a few months later that same list of student are congratulated for passing. The bar exam, CPA, medical boards all have their percentage of failures but with the expectation of a few systems or styles, you pay you show up you get the belt. What a shame. Master Mark Seidel The Midtown Academy Phys-Ed/Martial Arts Program USTU/WTF affiliated www.midtownacademy.org -----Original Message----- From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com [mailto:bsims@midwesthapkido.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:26 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Meaning of a Black Belt Dear Anthony: I think I understand what you are saying about these extended and protracted journeys that take us up the mountain to the rarified atmosphere where Balck Belts reign. OK, sure there has been some real exaggeration in these instances. But how about if we flip the coin over and ask the other question. How is it that the Koreans are not more protective of their culture? I am NOT condoning much of the embellished curriculums that require all sorts of super-human excess in the name of proving oneself. Hell, Lifes' hard enough all by itself without making it harder and any student can always make his training harder for himself. No, what I am talking about are the folks who have made a business of selling rank to the point that having a Black Belt, in the World view, has little regard at all. Certainly, any person can go out and buy a trophy and identify themselves as a champion of one sort or another and we all know they are only kidding themselves. However, a Black Belt is symbolic of some greater sacrifice and dedication. If it weren't noone would want one. However, I am identifying those folks who TRADE on that symbolism instead of passing along high standards that would justify such symbolism. More than most, then, I find fault with the Korean nationals themselves for having such cavalier attitudes towards institutions of their own culture. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:56:41 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Myung tapes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I too recommend the Kwang Sik Myung tapes, they are laid out well and are easy to follow. The techniques from the WHF are some of the old style KHA techniques from days gone by,,, also,, Master Harold Whalen was the fall guy in all of the first Myung tapes,,, kind of cool huh.. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:04:37 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_GM_Myung_Tapes_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Gaby: As a World Hapkido Federation member I support GM Myung and his educational efforts. In fact, there is a chance that we might get GM Myung out of California and into Chicago next March or April. More on that to come. Many years ago I purchased his level 1-5 tapes as well as those concerning cane, stick and pressure point. I also purchased a variety of his instructional books. All of these are available on his website (www.worldhapkidofederation.com). Now before I say anything more let me make it unmistakeably clear that I continue NOT to support commercialism in the KMA and I do not make any of these comments as a solicitation to buy GM Myungs' books. I believe he has made a great contribution to the Hapkido arts in providing these resources, but a quick visit to his website will prove that it is dedicated completely to marketing and offers no other services. I had approached GM about this, and resurrecting his newsletter, and both offers were declined. I will leave it to others to decide the motives for these decisions. That all said, let me suggest some points for your consideration. 1.) The Gold Book. HAPKIDO - ART OF MASTERS is pretty dated. However, since it was one of the first, if not THE first Hapkido book published in English it would serve as a fine reference point for the state of the more Japanese- influenced style of Hapkido arts circa 1976. 2.) HAPKIDO WEAPONS - THE FORMS (Publ 1988) provides a step-by-step examination of the five WHF hyung with multiple views of each movement. GM Myung had quite a background in TKD and his development of these forms reflects both the TKD background as well as the heavy Japanese flavor of his style of Hapkido which owes much of its core to GM Ji. 3.) Video Tapes - Levels 1-5. These tapes are the older interpretation of GM Myungs' Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido and each tape also includes the respective form which, like the above book is the older interpretation of his material. In 1996 GM Myung published both a new set of books (levels 1-5) as well as a new set of tapes. These have a modified interpretation of the material with some of the techniques removed and the forms simplified a bit. GM Myungs' material has tended to be a bit redundent so some people may appreciate the cleaner organization. For myself I tend to advocate for the older material but thats just me. 4.) The Tapes and Books on the Cane and Dan Bong are good investments, however I think you would be making needless purchases on many of the other tapes and books as the material is plainly material from the basic 1-5 level set reapplied to specific situations such as knife, or positions of disadvantage. Finally, as far as the sword and the staff material go I think you would be better served getting a copy of the MU YEI TOBO TONG JI and its associated video tapes and use those as guides for delving into the more authentic KMA material for these weapons. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:20:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Anderson To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Multiple belts per rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, If I may be allowed to comment, The multiple belts per rank isn't necessarily a business ploy. It could be a legitimate adaptation of the ranking system to the Western mindset which has a short-term focus and goal orientation. While most here agree that the martial arts are a lifelong path of learning, not everyone -- and I'd venture to say most -- people coming to the martial arts do not realize that. I see the sweaty and often painful workouts leading up to a testing as the meat and potatoes and by far the most satisfying part of martial arts training. While this is enough to keep me hooked, most people coming to the arts are focused on the peak experiences -- testing and tournaments. The training is just something they have to put up with to get to those peak experiences and without them, the training itself would be worthless. It becomes a cost-benefit analysis. When the cost in hard training over balances the benefit of the peak experiences, they leave the arts. I see value in trying to lead students away from the short-term, goal oriented mindset to the long-term journey mindset of the Way in martial arts (or anything else, for that matter). But in order to do that, often you have to meet the students where they are and take them slowly from there to here. An increase in the number of belts could help in that affect, especially after the rank of black belt when the distance between peak experiences often increases dramatically. Sincerely, Jeremy Anderson. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:18:08 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TAE_GYUN?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: ".....TAE GYUN is an ancient martial art which was developed solely in Korea. It is based on ancient Korean culture, beliefs and philosophy. This martial art has a long history in Korea, is markedly Korean and cannot be judged by the Western materialistic concept of history. The Western developed countries forecast the end of modern cultures and civilizations in the first half of 20th century. They studied the divine nature of humankind. This divine nature they study is YOUNG GUM(the man of God) which has been handed down to the Korean people for tens of thousands of years. YOUNG GUM is accomplished by TAE GYUN (GAL)......." Did anyone else get a copy of this ad sent to them. I was really caught up with an art thats been around in Korea for "tens of thousands of years". I have images in my mind of Neolithic bands of hunter/gatherers sitting around the campfire for generations performing various movements and arguing about potential applications. Of course there would be the inevitable split and segments of the tribe would go their separate ways, each to advertise on the next cave wall that THEIR form was THE authentic one ("accept no substitutes"). Do you suppose they signed contracts? You know, 5 shells-6 beads down and a bear pelt each month. I wonder if they had kids classes on Saturday mornings where the parents dropped off the little ones before going out to a hard day of killing mammoths. :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:35:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Anderson To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] The Proliferation of Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, I have some questions relating to the proliferation of belt ranks in some modern systems. I've heard that the 10 colored belt ranks in many martial arts systems is new. That originally, there was only one color -- white that darkened to black through the sweat and dirt of training. This was extended to two colors -- white and black. Then a third belt was inserted in between. And so on. Is there any truth to this? And if so, could the proliferation of "probational," "intermediate," and "advanced" belt rankings just be a continuation of a historical trend towards increasing number of belts? Does anyone on this list study any arts that still use a 5- or 6- gup/kyu ranking system? If so, how are is the 10-gup ranking system used in many martial arts schools viewed by those practitioners? Thank you, Jeremy Anderson. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:29:58 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Black_Belt_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Anthony and Jim: "....You can argue that someone purporting to be a black belt in Hapkido whose rank is purchased may reflect poorly on the art, and Bruce has argued that a black belt is symbolic of sacrifice and dedication. But to whom other than yourself is that important?......" I agree with both of your view points, up to a point. In the Stateside culture there are some things however where symbols are protected because the organizations, or politics or commerce associated with them is highly valued. I am reasonably sure this is the idea behind such things as Trademarks and even Copyrights, yes? Some of our more sensitive responsibilities such as those of police, firemen, clergy and doctors are protected against individuals just assuming these roles and so impersonating legit individuals. And, yes, even teachers are becoming increasingly more scrutinized and higher levels of skill are required. Maybe we are quite a ways from having legislation to propose consequences to kids putting on BB and impersonating MA teachers, but wouldn't you think that the KMA community itself wouldn't have to be told to respect its symbols a bit more? Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:11:25 -0500 From: "David N. Beck" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: WHF Kwang Sik Myung HKD tapes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hello everyone,I am intending to buy kwang sik myung hapkido video tapes, > > * defense punching > > * defense kicking > > * wrist part technique > > * front grab technique > > * the knife technique > > * 120 kick original hapkido > > I would like to know from you if you have bought some of these videos to > give me a review and opinion about these tapes. thanks in advance.gaby  > I have the defense punching, defense kicking, knife technique, and 120 kicks tapes. What follows are just my opinions. The 120 kicks tape is about the best kicking video out there, just superb. The knife techniques one is excellent, but there are better ones (for instance de Alba's tape). The defense punching and defense kicking ones are good for what they cover, but as with many of his later tapes, there is way too much repetition for my taste; showing the same technique over and over. I feel a technique should be shown 3x max all from different angles; every VCR has a rewind and slow motion feature. Also, the punch defense doesn't address hooks or swinging punches; and the kick defense only addresses front, side, and roundhouse kicks. And in about all of the WHF tapes, there's some promotional stuff at the beginning. But with these faults, the WHF tapes always are well-done, with top of the line techniques, and among the best sets of tapes out there. So all in all, I would recommend them. Regards, -- David N. Beck dnbeck@beckmartialarts.com http://www.beckmartialarts.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest