Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:31:23 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #428 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. I've Returned (Michael Rowe) 2. Re: Price Question (Ray Terry) 3. sonsaeng (Charles Richards) 4. Teaching in China (Art VanVranken) 5. Next Generation (Rudy Timmerman) 6. Tuition woes (Rudy Timmerman) 7. sport tkd calendar (Charles Richards) 8. Olympic Weight Selections (fwd) (Ray Terry) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Setting_a_Good_Example_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 10. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_What_good_indeed!_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 11. adding to it all (keith macneil) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Rowe" To: , "Daniel Kmiecik" , , , , , , , "Robert Olson" , Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:12:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] I've Returned Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm back at the computer now. Those of you that sent your condolences thank you it was very much appreciated. The flowers were also appreciated by the family as well. Michael Rowe mp_rowe@cox.net --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Price Question To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What do you experts think of the approach of taking the average per month training price for your area and then adding N% (you decide the value of N)? I believe that Gm Ji used to multiply by 3, following the approach of Gm Choi Yong-sool. Using the perceived value approach, i.e. you get what you pay for. Work? Not work? Depends entirely on your ability to sell the idea??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] sonsaeng Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From Korea Online 7. teacher (honorific) »ù ¼±»ý´Ô I get kyosa as teacher and sonsaengnim as the honorific I recall Sabomnim was the honorofoc for instructor which might relate to "master instructor" 1. instructor (honorific) »ç¹ü´Ô 2. master instructor »ç¹ü and sonsaeng nim probably relates to "class" instructor. Of course Master Thomas' post reminded me of the evalution ala Dr. Kano and the "copy the japanese" of master. I guess to be more "Korean national" sonsaeng nim makes more sense than kyosa nim and/or sabomnim? FWIW I have never heard sonsaeng nim used in a Tang Soo Do Dojang. BU then we are always learning. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Art VanVranken" To: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:18:49 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Teaching in China Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Excellent advice on that. We should have more schools that practice this way. Maybe then we can do away wit the McDoJangs. This area has way too many Mc DoJangs and very few real TKD Schools. Is it really all about the almighty dollar? --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:39:41 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Next Generation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > OK, so here are parts of our next generation of personalities and > organizations. I'm not supporting their activities or dissuading folks > from > attending. I just thought it would help to know who these folks are. > Anyone > have anything to add? FWIW. Hello Bruce: While I don't know about anyone else, the WKSA has for a number of years now been preparing the eldest son, Master Suh, Sung Jin, to take over the WKSA leadership. If my memory serves me correct, there was a large story about this in TKD Times with Master Suh on the cover. Master Suh is a great martial artist and a pretty good man; however, it remains to be seen if all will follow him or if he will encounter the same problems as so many other "next generation" leaders encountered. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:58:27 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Tuition woes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles writes: > I just needed another swift kick in the @$$ to go back to using PPT > scripts again (Pivot, Profile, test close). I studied them, I just > hate them because I'm not a *&$%*&^%$ telephone salesman either. I > really only want to/need to invest time in the journey oriented > students, but I know to pay for Jackson trips and all my AAU > competitions I need to have a few dabblers in the dojang... Hello Charles: It would be nice to have JUST real serious students fill up the Dojang; however, that will just not happen, and we will always need to include those students for whom training is just a hobby. Like you say, the bills need to be paid, and the fixed overhead is the same with one or a hundred students on the floor. Problem I have is to convince this to some of my more hard core students:) As far as billing is concerned. You should take a real serious look at your cost to have someone else do the collecting for you. In my case, I found that the added expense did NOT warrant the extra cost. For example: they never were able to save a student who did not want to pay, and they never collected a penny that did not come voluntarily. I came up with a solution that seems to work fine for me. I simply went to a yearly system where students bring in a series of post dated cheques dated for the first of the month. I save the expense of collecting, and I have a lot more control over the financial aspects of my school. No one seemed to complain when I shifted over; because, with this system (saving collection dues) I was able to keep my fees from rising, and everyone was more than happy with that. The alternative was to increase dues, and I let the students make the choice:) Like you, I am not good on the phone, and the best investment one can make in his or her dojang is a good receptionist. Perhaps offering a reduced or free training might attract someone who enjoys talking on the phone, and that WILL make a huge difference in your enrollments as well as close the back door due to consistent follow ups and improved customer service. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:15:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] sport tkd calendar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net RT, Please add, October 18, 2003 Lebanon, TN SEAAU winter open www.seaau-tkd.com January 24, 2004 Smyrna, GA double elimination point sparring only event Be Well, CR __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Olympic Weight Selections (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Olympic Weight Selections 2 October 2003 TO: Athletes Member Pan Am/World Championships Team United States Taekwondo Union FROM: Mr. Bruce Harris Executive Director, United States Taekwondo Union RE: Official Notification of Olympic Weight Class Selection Dear Athlete, This correspondence will serve as official notification of the Olympic Weight Classes selected for competition by the USA at the 2004 Athens Olympic Games and all competitions leading to the 2004 Athens Olympic Games. The USTU Ad Hoc Committee on Olympic Weight Class Selection held two conference calls to determine which two Male and which two Female Olympic Weight Classes will be contested by the USA at the 2004 Athens Olympic Games. This committee followed the USOC-approved Olympic Selection Procedures in making its determination of the selected Weight Classes. The following weight classes have been selected: Male Olympic Weight Class #1 Male Olympic Weight Class #3 Female Olympic Weight Class #1 Female Olympic Weight Class #2 All athletes on the 2003 Pan Am Team and the 2003 World Championship Team are eligible to compete for slots in the selected weight classes. Athletes who desire to compete in those weight classes must declare in writing by fax or email the intent to compete and the weight class in which they intend to compete. This declaration of intent to compete must be received at the USTU Office by fax at 719.866.4642 or at the email address ustugold@mailsnare.net no later than close of business October 15, 2003. The Olympic Selection Fight-off will take place at the United States Olympic Training Center on Saturday, October 18, 2003 with a mandatory weigh-in on the afternoon of Friday, October 17, 2003 between 5:00 pm and 6:00 pm. The Weigh-In will take place at Sports Center 1 on the Olympic Training Center complex in Colorado Springs, CO. Competition Rules for the Olympic Weight Class Fight-Off will be the current WTF Competition Rules, not the new rules that were passed on September 22, 2003 at the WTF General Assembly Meeting in Garmisch, Germany. Athletes will be responsible for expenses incurred for this competition, to include airfare, meals, and lodging. Winners of this competition will represent the USA at the World Olympic Qualification Tournament in Paris, France to be held December 2-5, 2003. Good luck and Best Regards, Bruce C.K.W. Harris Executive Director, United States Taekwondo Union --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:35:53 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Setting_a_Good_Example_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Michael: "......Oh well, he would of had a good time and maybe actually make some friends instead of enemies if he would just cowboy up and get on the mat instead of just talking on the keyboard. He seems to do the same exact thing when Doju Nim is in town to train at Master Nabors dojang. He is always invited but never shows up to actually train. Wow five years in a row and "never" in town? Oh well his loss I guess......" There is always the outside chance that said wannabee simply does not know how to conduct himself when people of Master West, GM Ji , etc. come into town. Perhaps it would be a service to drop in when GM Oh See Lim comes by this month and model for said wannnbee what appropriate behavior is, yes? BTW: Mr. W's report is that he will be installed as national director for the KHF when Oh See Lim gets here. Makes no difference to me, but in the counseling profession we have something called "being found in an area of suspicion". It means that maybe noone can prove that a person has done something wrong, but they continually are found with their hands in way too close proximity to the cookie jar, so to speak. I figure if thats the kind of person the Koreans actually want in a position of responsibility maybe that speaks volumes about the kinds of people who are actually running the organization. Doesn't sound like the kind of folks I would want to have much to do with, ne? FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:45:28 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_What_good_indeed!_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Kevin: "...... I sent each of them an email asking if this school was affiliated with them. Now here comes the Rant. Only one IHF (GM Bong Soo Han) even bothered to respond and the best they could tell me was to look for GM Han's name on any of the school's literature. What good is belonging to a federation if they can't even provide the simplest of verifications?....." Amen, Brother. And there are a number of services that the typical organization associated with any activity should be able to provide without too much trouble. Verification of membership would seem to be the most basic. Heres' a couple of others. a.) Up to date standing of a particular individual with the organization. (Don't confuse this with ranking. This would be more like the office one holds, or responsibilities one is delegated. ) b.) Up to date ranking based on performance. c.) Concise bio or background d.) Uniform performance standards or uniform curriculum e.) Regular and frequent training and teaching opportunities. f.) Guidance opportunities from leadership. OK, so this may not be an exhaustive list; just some food for thought. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "keith macneil" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:06:42 -0300 Subject: [The_Dojang] adding to it all Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to start by saying that I truely enjoy reading the different (and similar) points of view in this forum. It is a pleasure to read well thought out questions and responses, and see that ppl with different opinions still have respect for the opinions of others. That being said, I think today I will participate rather than just read along. I currently train in Taekwondo (WTF), and only after a considerable amount of time did I test for my Black Belt rank. I too have thought of the way standards seem to have changed, and watch 7 year old 2nd and 3rd dans in dojangs, and it used to really get me down. It makes it difficult for others who do not train in Taekwondo to take us seriously. It took me almost 9 years to attain black belt rank. That is almost unheard of today in our style, but when I started, 6 to 8 years was quite normal. I have no complaints about how long it took me, and I really can not criticize those who get their black belt in a year and a half or two years because some of them are really good technically. However, they lack something that I am proud to have, experience. The amount of time that I wore each belt gave me the opportunity to really know what it was to be at that level. It taught me to appreciate even the smallest of improvements in my technique, and it taught me that belt colour is not everything. Train because you love the art, not the uniform. I can not only pass to my students the techniques and philosophy that I have learned from the Masters, but also my love for the art I practise, and the experiences that helped that love to grow. Sorry so long, and wishing all of you the best Yours in Taekwondo Keith MacNeil _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest