Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:00:15 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #434 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. ITF-KATU (Manuel Maldonado) 2. KSB Philosophy (FirstPe315@aol.com) 3. RE: Associations (Ali Alnasser) 4. Re: Ray Terry (Dr. Daryl Covington) 5. KHF and one "Bad Apple" (FirstPe315@aol.com) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Same_Old_Song.....?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Han Mu Do Seminar (Steve Kincade) 8. Hapkido vs. Aikido (FirstPe315@aol.com) 9. Shinsei (Ray Terry) 10. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Oooopppps-_My_bad!_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 11. Re: KHF and one "Bad Apple" (Ray Terry) 12. RE: Losing rank (John Merwin) 13. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Losing_students?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 14. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hey,_me_too!_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 15. Hanmudo seminar (Chris Hamilton) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:08:44 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF-KATU Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm a member in good standing with ITF-KATU as most of you are aware of. I'm very frustrated with the way the ITF is going or even as far as conducting business. I tested last year for my next Dan and to this day I haven't recieved my Certificate... I've called several times to GM Hwang asking where my certificate is I paid and would like to know where it is. He has told me to wait another four months. I feel that for my students this type of wait would be uncalled for. As a business owner I need to have a quick return on Black Belt certification, I feel it gives credibility to a certain Instructor, especially if one is chargung X amount of dollars to the parents and they expect a certificate. The ITF has had it's ups and downs and thats one of the reasons I'm planning on going solo. I'm working with some of you here on the list as far as me is concerned and you have been of much help. I'll always appreciate the help and brotherhood I have found on this list. Thank you all for your support and help. If I can ever be of assistance please don't hesitate to contact me. Manuel Maldonado http://devoted.to/Taekwondo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month*. *Depending on the local service providers in your area. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:42:40 -0400 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KSB Philosophy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Not to be too argumentative but just to be fair, Minimum Effort, Maximum Efficiency is a Judo maxim since about 1880. I, however, expouse this maxim as part of my school charter and the theory of our self-defense and living. But I doubt it originated with KSB. Jeff In a message dated 10/8/2003 9:33:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Remember the KSB philosophy I shared with you in Jackson: > "maximum > result with minimum effort". --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Ali Alnasser" To: Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 02:46:56 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Associations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rosenberg: > Well, I belong to the International HKD Federation - Jaenam Musul Won which is "jae dan bup in." I believe the Korea Hapkido Federation is "sa dan bup in." [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:49:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Ray Terry Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In response to: " www.shinseijujitsu.com is the website for Shinsei, so... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com " Actually sir, you are incorrect. Karate for Christ owns several domains to keep others from using them www.karateforchrist.com, www.shinseijujitsu.com, and www.shinseihapkido.com, as well as others. Right now, all of those point to the Karate for Christ Website, NOT THE SHINSEI SITE. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:49:22 -0400 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KHF and one "Bad Apple" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray- Although I do not disagree with this statement, it is also contrary to what we teach people about judging a book by it's cover. IMHO Hapkido is also about internal consistency of character. He may not share it, but WE are in control of how others influence us and our behavor. Perhaps if an organization is ran by a "bad apple" or there are "multiple" bad apples it may be indicative of a problem. If that is NOT the case, then we simply must bypass such individuals and give them little attention or thought. There can be "bad apples" in any organization and that is not representative of the organization as a whole. Quality control becomes extremely difficult with one so large. I am quite interested in the Seminar in a few weeks because I am not a member of the KHF so I could care less about Dr. Hackworth and his presence there won't distract me in the slightest and his politics do not interest me. I am sure there are a lot of great KHF Master around so why not focus on that. Jeff In a message dated 10/8/2003 9:33:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > If it seems that people are picking on the KHF it is only because of the > actions of one chubby 6th Dan down in Florida, the one that claims to be part > of the KHF. The one that calls himself a Grandmaster. The > one that only > brings disrepect to the KHF. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:59:06 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Same_Old_Song.....?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Stuart: "....I noticed some people seem to be picking on the KHF or KHF "recognized kwans". The KHF is the oldest and largest HKD Assoc. in the world as you all know! And for the record I'm not implying other associations aren't good or legitimate. I support a couple different Assoc. where I feel a common bond with the techniques, philosophy or the people. I would like you or anyone to list the "organizations that they feel are Ok and legitimate" for Hapkidoists to belong to......." As I make this post I doubt it will do much good but here's a shot anyhow. 1.) Regardless of what you think you know, no one I know has said that the Korea Hapkido Federation is a "bad" organization. There ARE some questionable members, with questionable views or values. 2.) Whether the KHF is the "oldest" or "largest" is arguable depending on how and when one grabs that question. In fact the use of superlatives is one of the things that ever got any of this conflict going in the first place. 3.) I, too, support a couple of organizations and neither I nor any of the other members of any of the organizations I belong to tout themselves as the be all and end all of their respective arts. 4.) I think the place that we part views is when one or more of Hapkido leadership represents themselves as more influential, more powerful, more anything than other people and then fails to back those claims with behavior, fails to account for his actions by avoiding direct questions or continues to spin, misrepresent, disinform or otherwise the very arft he purports to represent. FWIW. BTW: Some time back you did me the service of affirming a statement that Mr. W in Florida made about a supposed meeting with Oh See Lim and GM Ji. I tried to call you a number of times to verify both the information and the fact that it actually came from you. The same results came when I tried to verify information I had recieved from Mr. Kevin Huston also regarding Mr. W. The same thing happened when I attempted to contact Frank Clay and one of the other supporters of Mr. W. from dowm LA way. Apparently learning to yell unsubstantiated material from the shadows is something of a Florida tradition, yes? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Steve Kincade" To: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:54:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Han Mu Do Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce asked about the upcoming Han Mu Do Seminar this November. Yes, it is an oversight that it hasn't been mentioned.. The seminar is open to all martial art students, and will be an excellent opportunity to train directly with Grandmaster Kimm. I cannot imagine anyone coming away without learning something valuable, regardless of style. Although I am not the one to "officially" send out notification, here is what I can tell you: The seminar will be in Baton Rouge at Dr. Kimm's Headquarters' school on November 8 and 9, with a testing on the evening of the 7th. The seminar fee is only $99... I will advise you of who the special guests will be as soon as they are confirmed. Steve Kincade --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:08:26 -0400 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido vs. Aikido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Keith" Although Ueshiba's "style" changed post-war, many of the documents, students and even film of him clearly show that his martial nature was originally combative and quite aggressive. Judo and Aikido both were much "harder" pre-war. Just because Tomiki, and more notably, Shioda attempted to more closely align themselves with the original roots of their style, it is not necessarily a negative thing. Even Hapkido people teach through their own personalities. Nothing new there. Keith, if you want to know the difference between an Aikido and Hapkido throw (Hip, Fireman etc...) just buy a good Aikido video and you can see it for yourself and you may gain some insight into the mindset behind it. But there won't be a lot of Chinese explanations in their in terms of it's origins. Sorry Bruce. Jeff In a message dated 10/8/2003 9:33:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > In closing, let me say that some Aikido people (Tomiki Aikido) have > attempted to put a bit more "meat" into what they do. Seems a little silly > to me. Why take an art dedicated to being defensive and not huting someone > and try to make something more combative out of it? Might as well simply > train in something that is more combative to begin with. > FWIW. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Shinsei Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "www.shinseijujitsu.com is the website for Shinsei, so... > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com " > > Actually sir, you are incorrect. Karate for Christ owns several domains to > keep others from using them www.karateforchrist.com, www.shinseijujitsu.com, > and www.shinseihapkido.com, as well as others. Sorry. I should have said that shinseijujitsu.com is one of the sites for Shinsei, not -the- site. I note that shinseijujitsu.com and shinseihapkido.com were both obtained on 6 November 2001. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:09:51 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Oooopppps-_My_bad!_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charlie: Missed that one by a mile! So am I to understand that you are actually going to broker for a uniform manufacturer? Is this a particular line that you are going to represent, or are you organizing a particular set of specifications and having your own uniforms made to order? It sounds from your previous post that you will be marketing your own line. As far as jumping on the Greyhound, I am participating in a sword symposium out in the Washington DC area hosted by Scott Rodell this weekend. It will be an interesting approach as Scott will be lecturing on Chinese sword, I will be lecturing on Korean sword and there will one other person representing Japanese sword. I am still engaged in a process regarding my former employer and will need to jump on the Big Dog to be back in the Chicago area for Monday. However, as I said, I support the USKMAF and if there is anything I can do let me know. Jumping on a Greyhound to LA couldn't possibly be any worse than the 18 hours I am going to spend-- one way-- this weekend, yes? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] KHF and one "Bad Apple" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Although I do not disagree with this statement, it is also contrary to > what we teach people about judging a book by it's cover. However in this case we have read the entire book... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: John Merwin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Losing rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Message: 10 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:18:41 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Losing rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Have we forgotten where our training came from? Was it not passed down from our GM's that were our mentors as well as our seniors, They may not be able to perform spilt kicks or jump as high as when they were young blacks belts, but have they lost the skill to teach us? As in the U.S. Army our instructor are the one that have lived through war, but they now long go to war. If this so why would a 5th Dan and up loose any of there knowledge if they keep up there training, learning new skills and performing at their best ability to improve their own skills, then passing on this knowledge to us. I was in Korea with you and learned many new HKD trick, I would hope that we do not start a tern of don't trust any one over 5th Dan. Please help us not to forget were our pass is and were we must go. HKD is fare better off by having GM's like yourself as models, that we can strive to become better martial arts. CIMA __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:31:17 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Losing_students?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: "....Given all that, I'd rather keep my 20-25 dedicated students of various ages in my postage stamp size dojang, than have 200-250 students in a mcdojang, even if it meant I could teach full time....." Your closing comment reminded me of a recent turn of events just along these lines. Until about August I had some 80 private students over and above the college kids I teach at the local community college. Due to some of the things that transpired in August and September I advised all of my private students that they would assume membership in an organization of their choosing and furnish me evidence of that membership. Note that I did not say that they had to join "my" organization, which would be to say the WHF or the USKMAF, or even the NKMAA or the KHF. All I told them was that they had to join SOME organization. As I write this I have about 40 private students left. I think they're great people and will continue to serve them the best that I can. But if I attend the next class and noone shows up--- or ever shows up--- I will still be finding time for training in the Hapkido arts each day. 80? 40? 20? 0? Its all the same to me. I'll take somebody who want to learn over someone I have to educate any day. :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:36:56 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hey,_me_too!_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: "......As to Mac, Rich or I coming I think that's possible too. I'll speak for me. Yes I can come. I would need to email off-list to work out dates and travel expenses. But in simple terms, I would need no more than say a plane ticket and some buffetts and a cot at your house or the dojang. I might ask you to list the event as presented/hosted by the USKMAF so we can list it on the USKMAF website......." If you guys get something rolling let me know. The best way I can think to thank JR for his hard work in building the USKMAF is that its members can use it to make the KMA better, yes? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Chris Hamilton" To: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:56:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hanmudo seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Hanmudo seminar is definitely on track for November 8 & 9 at our dojang in Baton Rouge. I am not sure what the focus of the seminar will be, but I suspect it will be sword work. We normally have one or two guest GM's, but I've not heard any announcement to that effect yet. I'll try to find out more details. Chris in BR <> --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest