Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 05:59:09 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #436 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Both (Ray Terry) 2. Re: Bruce's questions (Dr. Daryl Covington) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Sure,_why_not......._?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Chubby_Wannabee?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hmmmm,_I'm_not_so_sure..._?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Possible_language_problem..._?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Student Lost Without a Master (Lauren Loftley) 8. Bayou Body Slams (L. Veuleman) 9. RE: Losing rank (Mark Seidel) 10. coach instead of grand pupah (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Both Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hwang In Shik studied under Choi Yong Sul, not Ji Han Jae. Actually it appears that he studied under both. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:41:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Bruce's questions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, Karate for Christ is a brotherhood of Christian Martial Artist. Anyone professing Christ Can belong. There are JuJitsu stylists such as Mark Barlow, Robert Carver (USJJF Vice-Pres) and others that are members, Chinese Practitioners (Erle Montaigue, etc.), and Korean Practitioners, ie. George Petrotta, Dennis Chua, Kang Rhee, etc. There is no rank given by Karate for Christ, it exists to help people create Ministry, support ministries, etc. We have some tournaments, seminars, etc., but it is an ecclectic group. Shinsei, on the other hand is a style. It jsut happens that the Pres. of KFCI is the founder of the style. He was a student of Mr. Park in HKD, and other styles. Shinsei Has its own governing Body apart from Karate for Christ, but the Shinsei group is a member of KFCI. They are two unique groups. Just like Shinsei Federation is a member of the Chosondo Federation, but we are not "CHOSONDO". Hope this helps. The websites Mr. Terry pointed out ALL go to the Karate for Christ Page, Which is not the Shinsei Page. Summary: KFCI is a Christian Brotherhood, Shinsei is a style, but many of its practitioners are members of KFCI. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:52:27 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Sure,_why_not......._?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jim: ".......Do you mind if I ask why you felt that was necessary? I can think of at least a half-dozen reasons off the top of my head that a legitimate student would prefer not to belong to a national or international organization. I notice you specifically did not mention in your post what transpired in August and September to trigger the decision, so if it is an issue you do not want to discuss, or discuss publicly, I understand......." My sense is that most teachers don't like to talk about this issue(s) but you asked and I think that maybe other people might get something out of it if I give a bit more information. Who knows maybe it start another lengthy exchange, yes? As most people know I have made a point of taking on students who have been abused by other teachers or schools. I don't pretend that they are drawn to me by my magnetic personality. :-) However, the least one can do, in my book, is to show proper interest and respect to folks who go out of there way to do the right thing for the KMA, at least to as much fun as we all have with a good laugh at the expense of bozo-s and wannabees when they come our way. When Rudy had his seminar this summer, it took place almost on our/my doorstep. Regardless of how badly handled folks may have been in the past it would have been the appropriate thing (read also the polite thing) to find time to make it ALL the way (about 50 miles) from Lake County to Downers Grove to at least meet the gentleman, wouldn't you say? And when JR had his Internationale in Jackson, I'm wondering how it is that I am the only one who was able to make it down there--- and remember, Jim--- I'm unemployed and without any real prospects! Its not as though I was living at home and able to pocket my paychecks. I have no doubt that a number of my students missed classes this last Spring because they were able to fly down to Cancun or Florida for Spring Break. People wonder sometimes when I get a burr under my saddle about a kid who wants to save $5 on buying a muk guem when that same kid doesn't think twice about putting $25 worth of gas in his car to go partying. Its a matter of priorities. So I made a decision to challenge these folks regarding their committment to their practice. The challenge was that they could seek-out the organization of their choosing, but they were required to identify one and committ to that organization. Most of these kids pay little or nothing for their lessons, have me available 2 or three times a week, and have had very little asked of them except to find within themselves the willingness to accept challenges to themselves in an effort to grow as people. Now, looking back on it COULD I have coerced them into greater engagement? Maybe-- hook them into a contract that would force them to show-up repeatedly whether they wanted to or not. Maybe. Could I have shamed them or bullied them into compliance? Maybe not. The fact is these kids were going to come, or not come, independent of what I did, all I did was precipitate their leaving by encouraging them to realize that maybe their committment to the MA had a little bit more to do with how their abusing teacher or school dealt with them than they originally owned. At any rate I continue to train hard and regular and will whether or not I have a student or not. It will be interesting to see what the remaining 40 students do over the coming months. BTW: I still take on the occasional new student but joining an organization of their choosing is now a requirement for enrollment. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:57:50 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Chubby_Wannabee?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....Are you sure he is a 6th Dan and not a 4th?...." I'm not sure that he is anyone of interest at all. Haven't you ever been to one of those family get-togethers where somebody's kid raises a fuss and then, when he finally has everyones' attention, he doesn't quite know how to do anything particularly constructive with it? Same thing. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:13:36 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hmmmm,_I'm_not_so_sure..._?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear ????: ".....Hwang In Shik studied under Choi Yong Sul, not Ji Han Jae. There's an abbreviated bio here: http://www.worldhapkido.no/grandmaster_hwang.htm Don't know anything about Tae Jung except that he was Hwang In Shik's student in Korea......" FWIW: I ran a check of Hwang In Shik (b. 1940)on the YAHOO search and came up with quite a few entries indicating that this gentleman was very well known for choreagraphing fight scenes in MA movies of the 1970-s. He is also identified as the Hapkido teacher to Angela Mao and Sammo Hung. He is also repeated listed as having studied under "Chi Hon Tsoi" (aka "Ji Han Jae"). (See: www.megaspace.com/entertainment/highimpact/stars/male/hwang_in_shik.html ) Re: Tae Jung Apparently he trained under In Shik Hwang and began the World Hapkido Association in conjunction with the Hapkido book author Choe Hui Son who studied Hapkido under Yoon, Byoung Ok. Tae Jung is also said to have studied Kumdo under Kim Sohk-soon but I have not been able to find any info on this last person. Sorry. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:23:34 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Possible_language_problem..._?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....Gold medal winner in the Korean National TKD Championship. This he told me to my face... while he was eating....." Do you suppose he might have thought you meant the Korean National Take Kash Deposits Championship? I assume that he has the requsite certifications accompanied by a suitable heroic anecdote in which his efforts far exceed the performance of all others and he is duly recognized by obscure and nameless yet irrefutable sources of high standing in the Korean government. This guy doesn't Frank Dux, does he? :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Lauren Loftley" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:50:53 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Student Lost Without a Master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have studied taekwondo for 3 years. During the years-I trained work under emotional stress due to feelings that I had for my instructor. My instructor was aware of this and encouraged me to keep training. He would always tell me to meditate when I was troubled. He always continued to push me to come to class. I suspect that he does cares for me more than he is suppose too but never acted on it or he denied having feelings for me. My instructor is angry with me b/c I want to go to someone else to continue my training. My instructor just got married and may possibly on his way to becoming a father. I quit going to his school because I could not handle the stress. He says I can control my emotions. Since I have quit-I tried to find another instructor whose teaching methods are similar to my master's teaching method. But, the instructor is not as skilled and cannot take me any further than 1st degree black belt. Plus, there would be a conflict between the new instructor and old instructor since they both know each other. I decided not to go to the new instructor. Now, I find myself thinking about martial arts and missing it more than ever. I find myself making up workout schedules to improve my skill. Each day that I do not train I lose my flexiblity, skill and stamina. I am not motivate to work out anymore to improve my skill. I am like an orphan ...lost with no school to train in and no master to guide me. I have checked into other schools in the area, but they have American Karate schools, tournaments schools etc. These other schools do not appeal to me at all. I want to pick up where I left off-in a school that enforces the tenets of TKD, meditation, and teaches that tkd is priceless. There is anther instructor in the area, but I have heard that he is about taking the student's money. Plus, I have seen is students. They are not good. They have no heart, no desire -no deteriminaton. Should I sell my self short and go to this instructor? My old master thinks I am very good and have the potential to become a master one day. He is very sad that I have left his school. This hurts him b/c he has put his heart into my training. What does a student do when she/he is lost? I now understand that a student cannot survive without his/her master. It is hard to find a master who will trust you enough to pass his/her knowledge down to the student. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:05:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "L. Veuleman" To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bayou Body Slams Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, Charles, and errry body else, Thanks for all of the enouragement guys. I know the tour van is probably all booked up for the fall and so on, but maybe for the spring. As for your fun filled weekend of travel bruce, if monday is no good, then you can come tuesday. call in sick to work. I'll cover for ya bro. As for the uniforms, it is something I am doing because all of our guys wear Kamikaze uniforms, and they are having issues with supply and quality control ever since the design patent ran out. I took the design myself and made about 4 little adjustments that I thought were important, resubmitted them, and also did some adjustments to the belts and their colors (mainly lightening them). My main goal was/is to make it possible for instructors to give away lightweight uniforms and not take too much of a cost hit. My secondary goal is to make a kick butt heavy weight uniform even my broke self could afford, and third have all of them (lt, middle, and hvy wt) look sharp at tournaments and events. Alot of the reasoning was also because Century bites. So far every thing looks on track, and once I get off of my butt and get some pictures taken with them, I will post to the bluewavekarate.com website (my schools current site), and make it more for selling, and move my schools stuff to nki.bluewavekarate.com (doesn't exist yet, don't try). Contrary to Dojang Digest belief, the uniforms will be full/regular length. If you wanna look as cool as me you still gotta hem um up. Charles, how far are you from Natchitoches, which is one hour south from shreveport (check the map for me). We have a nice selection of buffets: Almost Home, 3 Chinese Places (one serves Japanese Chicken, so we won't go there, I know how you people are), and of course the staple Ryans. But we won't let you go home without eating at least 200 meat pies. Mmmmm...grease..... yitma Charlie Veuleman ************** L. Charles Veuleman - http://www.bluewavekarate.com Natchitoches Karate Institute - Chittim Jordan Tae Kwon Do 318-356-7727 Natchitoches Kustom Inks - Quality Screen Printing 318-332-1676 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Losing rank Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:05:53 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does a college professor that has lost his sight and maybe his ability to write due to illness or injury lose his PhD? I think not, if you earned your rank it is not just physical but the maturity and knowledge that came with it. If you are deserving of your rank when you got it and have lost physical agility due to accident and not laziness, than you are what you are; if you cant flip or fall learn pressure points and joint locks to supplement what you can no longer physically do. Master Mark Seidel The Midtown Academy Phys-Ed/Martial Arts Program USTU/WTF affiliated www.midtownacademy.org -----Original Message----- From: Rudy Timmerman [mailto:kwanjang@sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 3:52 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Losing rank Bruce writes: > Does someone who has made 5th degree begin to lose rank as they find > themselves less and less able to perform the more acrobatic throws and > falling? Hello Bruce: I actually quit martial arts (for a short while) because I thought the back injury I had sustained at work made me ineffective as an Instructor. I guess feeling sorry for myself was a natural reaction to being laid up for nearly two years after being so active. I got shocked into reality when one of my students pointed out that Sugar Ray Leonard and Ali were both coached by an old trainer whom no one had seen in the ring for as long as I can remember (if ever). After this, I began looking at myself as a martial art coach, rather than a black belt, and so far this seems to have worked OK. Nevertherless, I keep my white belt right handy in case the martial arts world figures I am no longer eligible to claim a dahn rank:) As I see it, rank is not what matters as long as I am still enjoying whatever I can still do. Sincerely, Rudy Sincerely, Rudy, Kwan Jang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:56:16 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] coach instead of grand pupah Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy writes: After this, I began looking at myself as a martial art coach, rather than a black belt, and so far this seems to have worked OK. Nevertherless, I keep my white belt right handy in case the martial arts world figures I am no longer eligible to claim a dahn rank:) As I see it, rank is not what matters as long as I am still enjoying whatever I can still do. Sincerely, Rudy>>> I feel the same way, coming from a coaching background I don't feel I ever got caught up in the I'm the Master of something,,, seems like when people start feeling this way their ego blows up and they become the opposite of what we are aspiring to do and portray. In sports when you are a coach and get this ego attitude it isn't long until you get beat! Coaching is about learning, analysis, and just getting better than your opponent. How many times do we on here talk about people who spend all their time attaining titles and sending in articles to magazines with their rank and business suits on next to some martial arts dignitary,,, man it's ALL about the training and sharing,, let me repeat that again,, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TRAINING AND SHARING!!! IMHO anything less is just plain silly.. nice paragraph Rudy, I enjoyed your post.. Michael Tomlinson (master of nothing, but a coach who is still learning everyday) _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest