Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:26:08 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #439 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: teaching/training (Michael Whalen) 2. Welcome (Charles Richards) 3. The true story (Patrick L) 4. Rank, Teacher and Whang (Stephen Petermann) 5. Re: The true story (Ray Terry) 6. dead teachers (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Re: Hmmmm, I'm not so sure... (Junya Ho) 8. Re: ITF-KATU (Dave Steffen) 9. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/promotion/yudanja.asp?div=5 (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:08:41 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: teaching/training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gaye, Just my .02 but I thought teaching is training. michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:43:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Welcome Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> My instructor is Master Booth and I feel extremely fortunate to have started my Hapkido journey under his watchful eye yet I feel even more fortunate that I am able to continue to train and teach with him as my guide and leader. To this day, I have remained a bit more quiet in the ways of communicating with and reaching out to correspond with fellow martial artists, but I think it is time that I come out of the coccoon and meet and greet others who are enjoying their own martial arts journeys at least as much as I do. Maybe one day our paths cross on a mat somewhere, until then the virtual mats (aka dojang digest) will have to do :) Looking forward to be at the receiving the great knowledge and wisdom shared around here. Be well, with regards, Gaye Terzioglu <> Welcome to the virtual mat! You are indeed in good hands, and will have many more years of "new material" and "new ways to look at material" under the watchful eye of Booth Sabomnim. I look forward to the special times when his students can spare him from down unda....maybe you can tell me. How do you tap out while trying to stop laughing at his monologue of humor? :-) It is indeed a good thing to find someone who has such a positive outlook on life, excellent technique, and the ability to share both with others. Here in dixie we'll have to refer to you as Gaye, because I have no idea how to pronounce your last name with a southern accent :-) Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:33:29 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] The true story Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mr. Terry, You wrote: >In short, the matter was related to a charitable contribition from a Korean businessman to a Hapkido organization that was not declared on the proper tax form.< As I understand it, this version is probably close to the defense used in GM Ji's case - but lest we forget, the prosecution prevailed. And still I honor GM Ji for his contribution to Hapkido. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Instant message during games with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Stephen Petermann" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:01:22 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Rank, Teacher and Whang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Tomlinson and others, It is easy to distinguish teacher vs rank. My Teacher is Chong S. Kim. My rank is conferred by Jang Mu Won. I am sure you recognize GM Ji's right and authority to offer Sin Moo rank, regardless of who was the individual's teacher. I choose to withhold judgment until I have seen the Hapkidoist. If he sucks, it doesn't matter who his teacher was, and who promoted him. On a somewhat related matter. I have met Whang In Sik. He is a very tough man, and a proud and serious Hapkidoist. He taught for my instructor at his school in Korea in the Sixties. Master Whang's association with GM Ji on several films, and any WELL deserved ranks GM Ji may have bestowed on him, may have led to a confusion as to who was his teacher. >I find it somewhat humorous to see how many older Korean masters studied under Choi Yong Sool and say he was their teacher but all their ranking comes from Ji Han Jae? Without mentioning any names I would say "most" of the influential Korean masters in the U.S. fall under this blanket. Is it just me or does anyone else smell something funny about this? Michael Tomlinson< Sincerely, Steve _________________________________________________________________ Instant message during games with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The true story To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Dear Mr. Terry, > > You wrote: > > >In short, the matter was related to a charitable contribition from a > Korean businessman to a Hapkido organization that was not declared on the > proper tax form.< > > As I understand it, this version is probably close to the defense used in GM > Ji's case - but lest we forget, the prosecution prevailed. The prosecution's case was what Dr. Kimm relayed to me, not the defense's case. As indicated by Dr. Kimm, it was entirely a political situation. Gm Ji was told by the judge that even tho he was not really at fault, he would still have to go to jail. He, the judge, had no other choice. Thus the short jail term of only one year. Now realize that when Dr. Kimm gave me the details of the story, it took him probably 10 mins to the relate the -complete- story. Starting from when President Park was killed by the head of the Korean CIA, to the resignation of all the bodyguards and all their instructors (Gm Ji was one of the instructors), thru the reformation of the KHF under Gm Ji and others. The problem came during the reformation, not directly from the assassination of Park. That and the hard feelings by some from Gm Ji not helping them more, through his influence when he had the ear of President Park. But still Gm Ji did help some of his faction, e.g. Oh See-lim, current head of the KHF. Wait for Dr. Kimm's book (next year?) and the details will likely be detailed there. Real moral of the story... Don't ask Dr. Kimm a question if you only have 5 mins to spare. He gives you the full and complete details, almost down to what color shirt and tie everyone was wearing on each day in question. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] dead teachers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I find it somewhat humorous to see how many older Korean masters studied > under Choi Yong Sool and say he was their teacher but all their ranking > comes from Ji Han Jae? Without mentioning any names I would say "most" of > the influential Korean masters in the U.S. fall under this blanket. Is it > just me or does anyone else smell something funny about this? > Michael Tomlinson When any noted teacher passes on it seems that many hucksters suddenly appear and claim to be (1) a long time student under noted teacher A, or (2) a long time private student under noted teacher A, or (3) the first student under noted teacher A, etc, etc. Why? Noted teacher A is dead and cannot correct the false statements being made. You see this over and over again, throughout the martial arts, not just with Hapkido. And yes, it does smell funny. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Junya Ho" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Hmmmm, I'm not so sure... Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:01:05 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, To be upfront, I am a student in Hwang In Shik's dojang in Toronto. When I said his teacher was Choi, I am repeating what he told me before about who his teacher was. I'm curious because you said you came across a few web pages about him, but you didn't mention the pages which contradict or differ in facts from the High Impact page you refer to. For example, the Hapkido Family Tree (http://www.hapkido-info.net/html/hapkido_family_tree.html) states a different lineage. The Bootmasters page (http://www.bootmasters.btinternet.co.uk/text/whang.htm) has a much more detailed biography of his MA movie activities and his life than the High Impact page. Did you have reason to believe that these other pages were less accurate than the High Impact page you referred to? In any case, you can call Hwang In Shik and ask him directly about what you've previously stated. You can reach him at 416-466-9259. The best time to reach him directly is 7:30pm-9pm on weekday evenings. The dojang is closed this Monday because of the Canadian Thanksgiving weekend. On a related note, I asked the webmaster of High Impact what his source of information was, but I haven't received a response yet. Good luck in your research! Junya Ho ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 12:13 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hmmmm, I'm not so sure... > Dear ????: > > ".....Hwang In Shik studied under Choi Yong Sul, not Ji Han Jae. > > There's an abbreviated bio here: > http://www.worldhapkido.no/grandmaster_hwang.htm > > Don't know anything about Tae Jung except that he was Hwang In Shik's > student in Korea......" > > FWIW: I ran a check of Hwang In Shik (b. 1940)on the YAHOO search and came > up with quite a few entries indicating that this gentleman was very well > known for choreagraphing fight scenes in MA movies of the 1970-s. He is > also identified as the Hapkido teacher to Angela Mao and Sammo Hung. He is > also repeated listed as having studied under "Chi Hon Tsoi" (aka "Ji Han > Jae"). > (See: > www.megaspace.com/entertainment/highimpact/stars/male/hwang_in_shik.html ) > > Re: Tae Jung > > Apparently he trained under In Shik Hwang and began the World Hapkido > Association in conjunction with the Hapkido book author Choe Hui Son who > studied Hapkido under Yoon, Byoung Ok. > Tae Jung is also said to have studied Kumdo under Kim Sohk-soon but I have > not been able to find any info on this last person. Sorry. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Dave Steffen Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:52:20 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF-KATU Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Manuel Maldonado" > Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:08:44 -0700 > Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF-KATU > > I'm a member in good standing with ITF-KATU as most of you are > aware of. I'm very frustrated with the way the ITF is going or > even as far as conducting business. I tested last year for my next > Dan and to this day I haven't recieved my Certificate... I've > called several times to GM Hwang asking where my certificate is I > paid and would like to know where it is. He has told me to wait > another four months. I feel that for my students this type of wait > would be uncalled for. As a business owner I need to have a quick > return on Black Belt certification, I feel it gives credibility to > a certain Instructor, especially if one is chargung X amount of > dollars to the parents and they expect a certificate. The ITF has > had it's ups and downs and thats one of the reasons I'm planning on > going solo. I'm working with some of you here on the list as far > as me is concerned and you have been of much help. I'll always > appreciate the help and brotherhood I have found on this > list. Thank you all for your support and help. If I can ever be of > assistance please don't hesitate to contact me. Manuel Maldonado > http://devoted.to/Taekwondo Sir, I hate to say this but... welcome to the club. I haven't been around the list lately, so a little quick background: I'm a 4th Dan out here in Colorado. My instructor, Roberto Roena (formerly known by his Americanized name, Robert Rhone) and I first met GM Hwang in late 1993 and joined KATU in early 1994. Although we originally came from ITF roots, we were WTF at the time for political reasons; Mr. Roena had recently tested for 6th Dan, and I had recently tested for 4th. When we joined KATU, we transferred over (read: paid for) black belt certifications for ourselves and all of our students, including my 4th Dan and Mr. Roena's 6th Dan. Mr. Roena's 6th Dan certification never showed up. We'd talk to GM Hwang, he'd explain the difficult and delicate situation in the ITF, talk about the other high ranking people who had issues with Mr. Roena's rank (that's a loooong story), and so forth. He'd tell us to be patient. Being the loyal students we are (and also having great respect for GM Hwang), we were patient... for nearly a decade. We recently decided that we had been patient enough. I should point out that several others in KATU were in similar situations. I know that Mr. Dave Karstadt in Phoenix, for example, was awaiting certification. Our solution - and Mr. Karstadt's, and many other's - was to leave KATU and join Master Choi, Jung Hwa's organization. We sent in various registration forms, and the paperwork (and money) for Mr. Roena's 6th Dan certification. We got all the membership cards and so forth within a month or so; it took about two and a half months for Mr. Roena's 6th Dan certification to show up. Apparently, that's about two weeks longer than the average (they try to turn black belt certifications around in two months). So far, I'm very impressed. The organization actually seems... well, organized. They have actually done everything they said they would do, when they would to it. (This _shouldn't_ be suprising, but it is - we're just used to the way the ITF used to be.) They have dropped the black belt certification prices back down to reasonable levels, they're organizing various research committees (I'm hoping to get on the scientific committee), and have done a lot of other things that I like. For example, on their web site, they state that their auditors are Deloitte and Touche (sp?). Given the allegations flying around about financial impropriety in Vienna, that's reassuring. Anyway, Sir, I thought's I'd just point out that we were (until recently) in the same situation you find yourself in, and seem to have found a good solution. TaeKwon! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Dave Steffen, Ph.D. Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede tkd-physics@comcast.net Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/promotion/yudanja.asp?div=5 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Interesting info from the Kukkiwon site. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/promotion/yudanja.asp?div=5 Dan/Poom numbers for Korea and Overseas. Also click on "The present condition for people holding kukkiwon Dan in each country" for details of each country. Interesting to note that there are only 40 8th Dans in the USA. Seems like every TKD instructor I hear of is a Kukkiwon 8th Dan. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest