Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:11:01 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #442 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kuk Sul Do (Jye nigma) 2. About Capoeira Angola...an article (Jye nigma) 3. USOC and USTU (Robert Martin) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Is_this_really_THAT_important=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Re: kuksuldo (Michael Whalen) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Master_Yang_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. ISP problems (Rudy Timmerman) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:06:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kuk Sul Do To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well from what I gathered from both websites, Kuk Sul Do is a modern martial art made up of a conglomeration of other arts. What I think happened is that these guys both studied something including Kuk sool won and made up their own stuff. I wonder if they even know about each other. Somebody has got to be a fraud...lol. Jye --- Mario Bertacco wrote: > What is the story on these 2 guys, they both claim > to be Grandmasters of Kuk > Sul Do > > http://www.kuksuldo.com/ > > http://yangskuksuldo.com/ > > Any Kuk Sool Won students on this list have any > personal experience with these > teachers? > > > regards > Mario > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:32:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] About Capoeira Angola...an article Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What is Capoeira Angola? The etymology of the word capoeira is disputed by some scholars. Some Brazilian writers claim it is from the Amerindian Tupi language group and means an area of bush that has been cleared by burning or cutting down. In Portuguese, the language of Brazil, it also means a big chicken coop or a place where birds are fattened. Kongo scholar K. Kia Bunseki Fu-Kiau thinks that capoeira is really a deformation of the kikongo word Kipura/kipula. According to Fu-Kiau "Both pura and pula means to flutter, to flit from place to place; to struggle, to fight, to flog. Both terms are used to describe rooster's movements in a fight: their back and forth, up and down as well as turning around moves. Kipura, in the kongo cultural context, is...an individual whose techniques of fight or struggle are based or developed on the ground of rooster fighting techniques. The jogo-de-capoeira (play of capoeira)takes place in a ritual activity and a circular area, both called roda (wheel, circle, social group) pronounced ho-da. The roda is a capoeira party in which capoeiristas gather and play capoeira. The players and onlookers form a circle, a roda. At the top of the circle is the bateria which is an ensemble of musicians and singers. Music is not incidental to the practice of capoeira; it is one of the most important elements in the art. It creates the atmosphere in which capoeira is most beautifully expressed. Music is used to inspire the players to more intense level of interaction, and it is used to calm them down when the game has become too heated. There is rarely capoeira without music. The berimbau is the most important musical instrument. It is a musical bow with one string. Attached to the bow is a hollowed out gourd (cabaca) that acts as a resonator box. Tones are produced when the bowstring is struck by a thin flexible stick (vaqueta). A small rattle (caxixi) is held in the hand that holds the vaqueta. With its hypnotic sound, the berimbau is considered "the soul of capoeira". Listen to the music of capoeira. The etymology of the word capoeira is disputed by some scholars. Some Brazilian writers claim it is from the Amerindian Tupi language group and means an area of bush that has been cleared by burning or cutting down. In Portuguese, the language of Brazil, it also means a big chicken coop or a place where birds are fattened. Kongo scholar K. Kia Bunseki Fu-Kiau thinks that capoeira is really a deformation of the kikongo word Kipura/kipula. According to Fu-Kiau "Both pura and pula means to flutter, to flit from place to place; to struggle, to fight, to flog. Both terms are used to describe rooster's movements in a fight: their back and forth, up and down as well as turning around moves. Kipura, in the kongo cultural context, is...an individual whose techniques of fight or struggle are based or developed on the ground of rooster fighting techniques. The jogo-de-capoeira (play of capoeira)takes place in a ritual activity and a circular area, both called roda (wheel, circle, social group) pronounced ho-da. The roda is a capoeira party in which capoeiristas gather and play capoeira. The players and onlookers form a circle, a roda. At the top of the circle is the bateria which is an ensemble of musicians and singers. Music is not incidental to the practice of capoeira; it is one of the most important elements in the art. It creates the atmosphere in which capoeira is most beautifully expressed. Music is used to inspire the players to more intense level of interaction, and it is used to calm them down when the game has become too heated. There is rarely capoeira without music. The berimbau is the most important musical instrument. It is a musical bow with one string. Attached to the bow is a hollowed out gourd (cabaca) that acts as a resonator box. Tones are produced when the bowstring is struck by a thin flexible stick (vaqueta). A small rattle (caxixi) is held in the hand that holds the vaqueta. With its hypnotic sound, the berimbau is considered "the soul of capoeira". In traditional Capoeira Angola schools, there is a specific location for each instrument in the ensemble. Facing the musicians one would see (from left to right): a ganza or reco-reco (a section of bamboo or gourd with notches cut in it played by scraping with a thin stick; an agogo, a double-headed bell that is struck with a stick or thin metal rod; a pandeiro, a tambourine; a berimbau-gunga, the berimbau with the largest gourd and the one that maintains the rhythm; a berimbau-centro, the berimbau with a mid-sized gourd and one that also maintains the rhythm; a berimbau-viola, the smallest berimbau and the one that "speaks" i.e. improvises the rhythms; a pandeiro, another tambourine; and an atabaque, a drum that is played with the hands similar to a conga drum. The dominant instruments are the three berimbaus; no other instrument should be played louder than them. There is also an order to the types and use of songs. In all, music is one of the most enriching aspects of capoeira. The ritual of capoeira begins when two players enter the circle and squat at the foot of the berimbau. One player will sing a ladainha, a ritual song of commencement. If his opponent doesn't respond with a song of his own, he will begin another song, a corrido a song for going out to play. The song is then passed on to one of the musician as the jogo-de-capoeira begins. A capoeira game is characterized by such dynamic movements as cartwheels, handstands, spinning kicks and spontaneous acrobatics. At its highest level of practice, capoeira is considered an improvisational conversation between two bodies. The operative sensibility is very similar to a jazz performance. Capoeira scholar Ken Dossar writes: The object of the game is for the capoeiristas to use finesse, guile, and technique to maneuver one another into a defenseless position, rendering them open to a blow, kick or sweep. Only ones hands, head and feet are allowed to touch the floor. Being swept and landing on ones bottom disqualifies a player. In general, there is no contact from strikes. An implied strike is more admired, particularly when the opponent has been clearly manipulated into an indefensible position...All strikes, evasions, and counterstrikes are woven together creatively as the game progresses. The freedom to improvise and create openings keep capoeira's action fluid and fresh. It is interesting to note that there is little use of offensive hand techniques in capoeira. Some have attributed this to the belief that slaves had to fight with their hands immobilized by chains and therefore emphasized foot and leg techniques. It is more likely however that the absence of hand techniques is based on an ancient kongo tradition in which the hands should be used for good work, i.e, creative activities, while the feet should be used for bad work, i.e, punishment and destruction. Fu-Kiau explained one relevant proverb in kikongo "Mooko mu tunga, malu mu diatikisa" (Hands are to build, feet are to destroy). __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:20:26 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] USOC and USTU Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anybody have updated information? Robert Martin TKD] UNITED STATES OLYMPIC COMMITTEE UNITED STATES OLYMPIC COMMITTEE ITEM: 10.2 DATE: 10/3/03 PAGE: 1 of 2 RESOLUTION FOR BOARD OF DIRECTORS ACTION CLEVELAND, OHIO OCTOBER 18-19, 2003 SUBMITTED BY: Thomas L. Satrom, Chair USOC Membership & Credentials Committee BACKGROUND INFORMATION: The USOC Membership & Credentials Committee (the "Committee") met on March 9-10, 2002, September 27-28, 2002 and September 12-13, 2003, at which time it conducted a compliance review of U.S. Taekwondo Union ("USTU"). The Committee also held a public forum on May 4, 2003 for those interested in the sport of Taekwondo to present their observations and comment on the governance of Taekwondo in the United States. The Committee also review USTU's compliance form and sent out written follow up questions to USTU, to which USTU responded. The Committee also requested that the USOC Audit Division conduct a full audit of USTU's financial records. Representatives of USTU attended all of the above mentioned meetings and were given an opportunity to comment and respond to the audit and to the Committee's inquiries and comments. After due consideration and discussion, the Committee found that USTU is not in compliance with the requirements for membership as an Olympic Sports Organization or for recognition as a National Governing Body ("NGB"), as set forth in the USOC Constitution and Bylaws and in the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act (the "Act"). Further, due to the serious nature of the issues raised, the Committee determined to make a recommendation to the Board of Directors finding USTU out of compliance and directing that the Executive Committee take action pursuant to Chapter IV, Section 5 of the USOC Bylaws to revoke USTU's membership in the USOC and recognition as an NGB. The Committee found that, in addition to other deficiencies, USTU has failed to meet the responsibilities of an NGB relating to its managerial and financial capabilities to plan and execute its obligations as an NGB, as is required by Article IV, Section 4 (C) of the USOC Constitution and Section 220522 (a) of the Act. Specifically, USTU's governance structure results in representational disputes and control issues that are disruptive to the governance of the sport and prevent sound management practices. Also, USTU is unable to effectively manage its sport on a day to day basis, including the inability to adopt administrative controls and procedures, to put together a sound short and long range operational plan, and to function in a businesslike manner that is necessary for the operation of an NGB. Further, USTU has failed to operate in a fiscally sound manner with financial controls and accountability, including the failure to devise a budget and to execute a plan to ensure financial well being. These problems have led to mismanagement, serious financial difficulties and the potential loss of opportunities for athletes to obtain the support needed for them to compete at their highest levels. SPECIFIC ACTION REQUESTED: BE IT RESOLVED, that the USOC Board of Directors determines that U.S. Taekwondo Union is not in compliance with the requirements for membership as an Olympic Sports Organization or for recognition as a National Governing Body, as set forth in the USOC Constitution and Bylaws and the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the USOC Executive Committee is directed to initiate action pursuant to Chapter IV, Section 5 of the USOC Bylaws to revoke U.S. Taekwondo Union's membership in the USOC and recognition as a National Governing Body. BUDGETARY IMPACT STATEMENT: Budgetary impact is likely if the USOC has to assume some of the responsibilities for the sport of Taekwondo once membership and recognition are revoked. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:26:43 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Is_this_really_THAT_important=3F_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Junya: ".....In any case, you can call Hwang In Shik and ask him directly about what you've previously stated. You can reach him at 416-466-9259. The best time to reach him directly is 7:30pm-9pm on weekday evenings. The dojang is closed this Monday because of the Canadian Thanksgiving weekend....." You know, I get just the least bit tired of some of this stuff. So I call this individual--- and that means what? Is he going to speak the truth to me? Is he going to say something different than what is published? Is he going to share with me something he has not shared with others even if its the truth and given that it may not cast him in a particularly pleasant light? In short--- give me a break. What you are saying does not sound like a viable alternative. Rather, it sounds more like a stupid challenge with a pre-determined albeit counter-productive result. In fact let me use myself and we can play the same stupid game. Here goes. Guess what, in a secret discussion with GM Myung I was designated by him as the person to inherit his organization should anything happen to him! Oh. You don't believe me? Call him up and ask him. Oh. He denied it? Well of course he denied it, says I, he wants to keep this secret discussion secret. Oh. He agreed to it? Well, gee, what did you think; that I was lying? Sorry, buddy, but it is fact of life that in a World made of suggestion and image the spin doctor reigns supreme. You like who you like, and make whatever claims that will put lead in your pencil. But don't expect the rest of us to fall all over ourselves ttrying to be the first to Toronto to touch the cuff of his uniform. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:47:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: kuksuldo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kuk Sool Won students on this list have any personal experience with these teachers? No, but I checked out some of their sites and looks like KSW to me. Rank hyung & tech requirements are almost identical right down to the terminology. michael whalen KSWnut "Heroes aren't made, they're cornered." --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:48:24 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Master_Yang_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was trying to remember who sent the post about comparing two different Kuk Sool Do arts. I had the pleasure of attending one of Master Yangs seminars and was very impressed at his comfort in an instructional setting, his attention to detail and what seemed to be some pretty high standards. Unfortunately I don't know anything about the other gentleman so I can't venture any comment there. The reason I am taking time to comment at all is that I remember Rudy saying something about how he had split-off from the KUK SOOL WON or followed his teacher from the KUK SOOL WON, and I was wondering if one or both of these folks were, likewise refugees from that organization. I know that Master Yangs' website has a KMA history penned by In Sun Seo and the curriculum seems to follow the Kuk Sul Won curriculum pretty close including using the forms that In Sun Seo organized from his Chinese arts experience. I also noticed that, like KUK SOOL WON, Master Yangs curriculum starts folks who are still gueps with both short stick and sword work. Anyone care to comment? BTW: Does anyone know the derivation of the Korean term for "dance" as in "sword dance"? The reason I ask is that I have been corrected a number of times by my sword teacher for calling a sword form a "hyung" instead of the more appropriate "bup". I have noticed, however, that an increasing number of folks refer to sword forms as "sword dance". Its no big issue just one of those little things I get curious about. Anyone? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:30:36 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ISP problems Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings everyone: If it seems that I have neglected to answer some posts, it is because I have not been able to access the net for a while... sorry! While I am sifting trough my backlog of email, I just wanted to give Ga -ye a warm welcome to the DD. Gaye is an extremely talented martial artist, and she is always one of the first to "experience" the feel of a new technique. In fact, she thanked me for not making any special allowances for the Australian females during my recent seminar there, and she appreciated being treated as Black Belt lady rather than a Lady black belt. Love your humorous posts Gaye, and thanks for the kind comments. BTW, this lady also does some great grilling on the Bar B:) Sincerely, Rudy Sincerely, Rudy, Kwan Jang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest