Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:25:50 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #450 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: wrist strength (Eric Walker) 2. TSD Hyung (Amed Hazel) 3. Common Root (Charles Richards) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TSD_Hyung/Kata?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Good_to_hear_from_you?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. MDK? (Charles Richards) 7. Re: Mook Jong= Mike Janich's Book (Jye nigma) 8. Kyung Hee University - international programs (A. Boyd) 9. Reply to Bruce - swords at short range, Haidong Gumdo, misc. (A. Boyd) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Eric Walker" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:31:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: wrist strength Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi David, You wrote, "I am a 5th kup TKD (W.T.F) person who trains in Brisbane, Australia. I was wondering whether anyone uses (hard) punching bags in their training or exactly what excercises they use to develop wrist strength, as i would like to develop this." We use top of wrist push-ups as well as the hapkido wrist stretches to help develop wrist strength and flexibility. Perform top of wrist push-ups by placing the hands palm up on the floor in the normal push-up placement, do five each of fingers pointing inwards, forwards, outwards and backwards. These can be rather painful in the beginning so don't overdo it. It may be best to do just one or two of each in the beginning. Hapkido has top-wrist striking and this exercise is also good to condition for this strike. Eric --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Amed Hazel" To: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:54:07 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD Hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been practicing TSD since 1991 and I have yet to find any written material or any one that can show me So Rim Jang Kwan or Tae Kuk Kwan. Also I was interested in Tan Tui (springy legs) that Hwang Kee learned in Manchuria. I had a photo copy of Tae Kuk Kwan but it was a terrible copy. Any help would be appreciated. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:11:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Common Root Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Chang-Hon forms (because these forms were taught to me by my original instructor Jim Miller who in turn learned them from Skipper Mullins, who learned them from Allen Steen, who learned them from Jhoon Rhee). <> Master Thomas, I knew I felt a bond in Jackson. You have a fine lineage and we have a common root. My first instructor was Chong "Charlie" Lee now 6th Dan and still student of Jhoon Rhee. Unfortunately I graduated from VA TECH as a 2nd Gup and never got the coveted JRI shodan :-) Be Well, Charles R __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:23:43 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TSD_Hyung/Kata?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: ".....For me, I've set out on a quest to learn all the Tang Soo Do patterns, including somehow So Rim Jang Kwan AND TaeKyuk Kwan, while learning the possible bunkai from the early te versions. Call it my own honoring the roots and accepting the evolution. I truely view TSD and KMA as a living art......" Now THAT is what I would call a quandry!! Its sorta like you know the short-comings of the art, but respect the integrity of the art at the same time---- warts and all, so to speak. I know what you are saying because I run into the same thing when folks want to know why I don't expand the ground fighting to include more BJJ, or maybe teach nunchukas along with the other weapons. Sure I could do it, but where does it stop, right? So I respect you knowing the background and yet drawing a line about how far you will step in any one direction. Tough choices. BTW: Dennis McHenry and I talked about So Rim Jang Kwon but I have not had much luck on locating leads regarding this material. The title literally means "Shaolin Long Fist" but there never actually was such a "style" although Long Fist has been one of the major foundations of many CMA Boxing styles and can, theoretically be traced back to Emperoro Taizu of the Song Dyn (10th Cen.). Undoubtedly that means that it was probably as likely to be taught at the monasteries as anything else. The key would be finding material on the original 32 Methods of Taizu Long Fist. Coincidentally I will be calling a fella tonight in this regard and if he gives me any decent leads I will certainly pass it along. But I have to tell you that I am running across scads of LF forms as I dig around and none that speak directly to a Korean transmission. Then, there is also the possibility that the name comes from the idea that someone whip-stitched a form together and named it as they did because they felt it captured the "essence" of the Chinese art. For the life of me I can't understand why the Koreans are so tight-lipped about this stuff. Its not like this material is any great national secret! FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:30:33 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Good_to_hear_from_you?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear JR: "......If you get a chance, come by and say hello, and I know that there will be many DD folks out on the mats with us.....Best to all...." Its truely great to see you back in print! You probably also answered a question Charlie V. raised about getting some USKMAF action down in his (LA.) neck of the woods. Do people from Miss ever wander into LA on occasion? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> I noticed in one of Mr. Richards posts he mentioned having his own style (Moja Kwan). I've thought of calling my interpretation and teaching methods of TKD as my own Kwan, but I didn't necessarily think of it as my own "style". I'd be interested to get some opinions on what the difference is between a Kwan and a Style, and what defines each? Form example Moo Duk Kwan went the way of Tang Soo Do, Su Bahk Do, and Tae Kwon Do. Even in Tae Kwon Do some MDK practitioners use the Pal-Gwe, Taeguek, Pyong-Ahn or even Chang-Hon forms. The WTF has practitioners from virtually all the Kwans, the ITF is the expression of Oh Do Kwan. Would you consider Chung Do Kwan, Ji Do Kwan, Song Moo Kwan and Yun Moo Kwan as separate Styles? <> OK, let me put on my flame proof email suit and take that one head on. Kwan/Kan/Kwoon = House, Gym "clan" i.e Shotokan the house of Shoto Kwan Jang Nim = the head of the house...the boss Moja (Hap) Kwan Mu Do = the harmonious house of martial spirit (way) Moja is swahili for One or harmony so you could say harmony house I use Mu Do instead of Tang Soo Do because it implies korean martial arts and the Do/Tao focus. We believe we are teaching a warrior way. I think the association of Kwan with style is another romanization SNAFU. Chung Do Kwan, Ji Do Kwan, Song Moo Kwan and Yun Moo Kwan all taught Kong Soo Do and/or Tang Su Do when they were founded. The Moo Duk Kwan taught Hwa Soo Do as it's "style" of martial arts untill KJN Hwang found out he was marketting the wrong product and switched to Tang Su Do. So Moo Duk Kwan is the Gym of Martial Virtues (and undeniably the grandchildren of Hwang Kee's house), not a style. It would be correct to say MDK Taekwondo is the branch of Hwang Kee's followers that decided they wanted their Dan certification backed by the Korean government when the KTA was founded. So to really stir the pot, what most people call MDK forms are really just Tang Su Do forms, and "MDK" Taekwondo folks that now teach palgwe and/or Taekyuks are not really (IMVHO) MDK, but more like X-Kwan where X is the house that left the Moo Duk Kwan to join KTA, and MDK Taekwondo that practices all the "traditional" MDK forms and not the "new" forms are really (IMVHO) X-Kwan Tang Su Do Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:01:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mook Jong= Mike Janich's Book To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Ken, an easier method is to make one using PVC pipe. I found that pvc pipe is very useful in training. For instance, plum blossom poles...I could never make plum blossom poles out of logs so I use pvc pipes, and for added support, I fill the center with dirt or cement. Jye --- Ken McDonough wrote: > Alain: Yes, I have Mike Janich's Book. > Unfortunately, my dreams of a workshop in Oklahoma > with woodworking tools, an auto lift, and gym have > faded (for the moment) due to my wife's illness and > need for me to return to the East for a new > position. Hence, I need a pre-made Wood Dummy to > enhance my sloppy skills. > > Cheers, > > Ken McD... > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product > search > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:01:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kyung Hee University - international programs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In today's Korea Herald an advertisement was run by Kyung Hee University. They have an international studies program with a variety of courses offered to foreign students in English. Three that I thought might be of particular interest to list members are their Oriental Medicine program, their Taekwondo program, and their department of Pan-Pacific International Studies. Their website is www.kyunghee.edu The TKD program is as follows (food for thought on the black belt thread that just ended: ______________________________________________________________________________________ Address_The International Taekwondo Academy, Suwon Campus, Address_Kyung Hee University, Address_Sochen-ri, Gilheung-eup, Yongin-si, Gyeonggi-do, Address_Korea, 449-701 Tel_ +82-31-201-2708~9 Fax_+82-2-204-8117 E-mail_jksong@khu.ac.kr Kyung Hee University's Department of Taekwondo is one of the oldest and finest programs in the world. The department offers a 4-year Bachelors degree. Graduates leave with a 4th degree black belt and referee certification, fully prepared for a career in Teakwondo. The academy offers a three-week's training program in January and July with 30-35 class hours a week at skill levels ranging from beginner to instructor. Tuition includes supplies, housing, meals and field trips. The main objectives of the International Taekwondo Academy are to encourage students and professionals everywhere in the field of Taekwondo, to create an increased awareness and active participation in globalizing Taekwondo and to promote a Taekwondo culture steeped in martial arts philosophy. Kyung Hee University has always been a pioneer in the field of Taekwondo, playing a leadership role in upgrading its national standard. Having had a successful Taekwondo taem since 1960, the University opened Korea's full-time Taekwondo Department in 1983, since then it has enjoyed success after success. A glance at the university's honors in impressive: Kyung Hee graduates have competed in 120 international championship, bringing home 77 gold, 16 silver and 15 bronze medals. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:27:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply to Bruce - swords at short range, Haidong Gumdo, misc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, Thanks for the kind words. (quote) 1.) I am considering for myself the importance of performing the right form with the correct weapon. With this as a priority I think I will need to give serious consideration to peforming BON KUK GUEM BUP & CHOSON SE BUP both with a single-handed guem ("a Tai Chi Sword" or jian) rather than continue to train with a two handed version for those particular forms. Comments? (end quote) Comments? I have heaps of comments... Hold on to your hat! I would say that using the correct weapon is essential. Performing ssang-su, yedo, bonguk and whatever else with a standard length sabre will not cause any harm to come to your technique nor will it fail to work, but using the longer sword for ssang-su will definitely show the student why the mechanics are the way they are. Conversely, I can't imagine doing Bonguk with a large sabre. Perhaps that's because I am so frail and willowy... As an aside, I think a sabre is the correct weapon for Bonguk Gumbub and I think the illustrations in the MYDBTJ (what I semi-affectionately refer to as the Damned Book) show a conscious shift toward the sabre as a battle weapon. (quote) 2.) Related to the sword type is also the combat distance..... That would mean more consideration of pommel strikes, snap cuts, and quick transitions from parries to close strikes and thrusts. If I had to draw a parallel with MT Hand I would say I expereinced something like what I would guess a TKD person might if an individual who is good with his hands were to consistently get inside of my legs, right? (end quote) That first time, ending up with the attacker standing comfortably inside your range is a scary thing. In heavily regulated sword activities like kumdo sparring all you can do at that point is push off each other and try for a point as you retreat. In HDGD things are different but, there aren't many schools which actually spar. Seoul is the exception to the rule but only a small percentage of the Seoul Association's dojangs get involved in the sparring bouts. Pommel strikes, presses, trips, elbow and knee strikes all flow well when you get too close for comfort and don't interefere with weapon use too much. Also, the draw cut (as opposed to a cut from the draw) should not be forgotten. If you wind up so close that you have to attempt short flicks or chops using the wrists or lower arm then it might serve better to use more of the body and press the blade in and drag it deeply across the flesh. That should give your short-range antagonist something to consider. (quote) 3.) I was really interested in what you were saying about HAE DONG KUMDOs' use of grappling ... (end quote) HDGD does have a wide array of unarmed tactics and techniques. Grappling is not a big component although falls and throws are taught. It focuses much more on trapping and striking/kicking. Being organized as a modern KMA, however, means that most schools approach the curriculum from the point of view of Mu Ye and tend to gloss over mu sool until higher ranks (or never). The art exists primarily for character building. Nevertheless, the forms routinely require use of the hand, pommel and foot for blade deflection, as well as include push and snap kicks, pommel strikes, and to some extent punching/grabbing. Being focused on using a two-handed weapon there is a lack of emphasis on hand techniques in favour of the other nasty, violent unarmed attacks. (Although I have to admit that there is a certain level of satisfaction that comes from getting in close, binding up both wepons and then out of the blue clocking your opponent in the face with an unsuspected fist, or better yet, ramming your forearm deep under their chin and seeing how flexible their spine really is.) I think I have been fortunate and have gotten this type of practice because I am "a poor foreigner, destined to never truly understand the Korean culture," and because my instructor likes to answer my questions. I find it hard to try and practice these skills though, as I have to do so on my own. Not as many people as I would have imagined study HDGD to develop actual sword skill. To compensate, I have been exploring Gicheon. It's kicking my butt. Another advantage is that HDGD students outside of Seoul do enough object cutting of such a wide variety that you can get over *some* of the skill pollution that creeps in when people try to reconcile what they do in forms with what they do to cut bamboo, paper, and straw. (quote) 4.) I'm with you, Anthony. I was pleasantly surprised to see a recognized sword master own, up front, that he had constructed his material from a few sources, instead of training "in the mountains" for half of his life. :-) (end quote) Worse, they all tend to name the same mountain... I keep imagining some sort of martial artist shanty town of hermit dwellings and deep caves. (quote) 5.) Finally, I, too, would like to see someone consider combat philosophy as part and parcel of their art. (end quote) An objective comparison of martial arts and their theories of combat is probably impossible, but with authors like Karl Friday maybe there is hope that a more comprehensive analysis of individual arts can be accomplished over time. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest