Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:15:22 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #451 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Korean American Flight Attendants File Bias Suit (Ali Alnasser) 2. RE: Common Root (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Manchurian_Training?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. Re: Tang Soo People, Discussion and Forms (Debra Dunn) 5. TSD Hyung (Dennis McHenry) 6. Re: Kwans (Manuel Maldonado) 7. help on TSD Hyungs (John Merwin) 8. Re: wrist strength development (Beungood@aol.com) 9. Swords... (Jason E. Thomas) 10. O-Sensei's USMA Fall Tour Seminar Schedule (fwd) (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Ali Alnasser" To: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:00:19 +0900 (KST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean American Flight Attendants File Bias Suit Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net By K. Connie Kang, Times Staff Writer Six flight attendants from Southern California who were laid off by Korean Air in May have sued the airline, charging that they were discriminated against because they are Korean Americans. In a Superior Court complaint filed Wednesday, the six women — all U.S. citizens — accuse the carrier of using the pretext of severe economic hardship to eliminate their jobs. They were part of the airline's "American regional flight attendants" group, made up of U.S. citizens or permanent residents, hired for their bilingual abilities and bicultural awareness, according to Kaylynn Kim, attorney for the plaintiffs. Cynthia L. Filla, attorney for Korean Air, said the company "denies any wrongdoing with respect to these plaintiffs." In the lawsuit, the women charge that, even as the airline laid off the entire American flight attendants group, it hired Korean nationals. Named as plaintiffs are Tina Lee, Su Kyong Chong, Hyun Joo Kang, Connie Kim, Hyun Sook Kim and Sarah Hong, all from Los Angeles, Orange and Ventura counties and employed by the airline six to 18 years. They contend that the company violated employment provisions of both state and federal laws. The plaintiffs are asking the court to reinstate them with back pay and unspecified damages for the hardship caused by the layoffs. The airline maintained a two-tier system of employee ranking that deprived Korean Americans of the same promotional opportunities and benefits as other employees, Kim alleged. For example, Korean American flight attendants were not eligible for early retirement or paid maternity leave, and were seldom allowed to work in first-class cabins, she said. [TABLE NOT SHOWN][TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:49:06 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Common Root Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles: The root spreads northward.....sortof..... Charlie Lee, huh? He's a terrific technician. I first met Mr. Lee back in '85 at a tournament in Harrisonburg, VA at the "Silver Bullet Challenge" I think that's what it was called, and a bunch of Jhoon Rhee's people used to come down from D.C. to compete. They were all awesome! Mr. Lee then did a forms seminar in Clifton Forge, VA which was hosted by Mr. Eddie Thomas of American Freestyle up this way. I still teach my students several aspects of forms that Mr. Lee taught that day. He is the best forms practitioner that I have yet to this day see in person. Not a bad fighter either. I'm sorry to hear you went to VA Tech. Being a West Virginian, I guess we'll be eatin' turkey for dinner come this Wednesday night when the Mountaineers spank some Hokie butt in Morgantown!! Thanks for bringing back good memories. James Morgan GTKDA Lewisburg, WV --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:58:39 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Manchurian_Training?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Amhed: "....Also I was interested in Tan Tui (springy legs) that Hwang Kee learned in Manchuria......" I'm poking around in this area right now and hope to have some info on Long Fist traditions in a few days that may help out with this. However, we really need a lot more information about the individual himself and where he trained. For instance, TAN TUI is not just a single form but actually a type of form and there are not a few Chinese Boxing arts which have their version of this. I practice the version derived from Dr. Yang, Jwing-ming myself and have noted that other versions seem to approximate it give or take this or that move. Long Fist, too, is more of a class of Boxing than a single type so we would need to have more information about who the teacher was or at least where the learning went on. Its also important to remember that "studying" something does not always mean the same thing to everyone. For me a "study" in an in-depth process. On the other hand people have reported "studying" a MA after taking a couple of seminars. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Debra Dunn" To: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:36:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Tang Soo People, Discussion and Forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In spite of the email address, its Danny Dunn, using my wife's account on a very rainy Friday morning. First, great to see several new Tang Soo folks on the digest. Welcome to you new guys. Pat, glad to see someone else from WTSDA. And great to hear some discussion on Tang Soo. Hyungs are a subject that have always been near and dear to my heart. Bruce I think that a lot of Tang Soo folks, once they get to and past 4th dan start to examin the roots of the Hyungs. I see a lot of discussion on other board about the differences in hyungs and te kata, and the actual combat applications. As for uniformity of hyung from one Tang Soo org to the next, it is pretty good with a few exceptions. Some orgs, such as my own, have developed their own basic forms. The Moo Duk Kwan Federation with more recent splinters are using the newer Chil Sung Hyungs which Hwang Kee KJN developed. And there are a few variations on which forms are required cirriculum at dan levels. So Rim Jang Kwan and to a certain extent Tae Kuek Kwan have become the holy grail for a lot of Tang Soo folks. I have read John Hancock write more than once that he is sure Tae Kuek Kwan is the 88 step Tai Chi Chaun form. I don't yet know this form so I can't be sure, but I know that Master Hancock researches and can back up what he says. So Rim Jang Kwan is one of the base styles of Chinese martial arts. From what I can learn, there may be at most only a handfull of people in the world that still or perhaps ever knew the specific form referred to in the Moo Duk Kwan cirriculum. Now there are several people that clam to have So Rim Jang Kwan, either know it or have it on video or are even publishing it in a book. But you need investigate these with some caution. There are a number of Long Fist forms extant, as one would expect from an independent style of martial art. The real question is, which Shaolin Long Fist Form did GM Hwang Kee learn? The real key to finding this form probably lies with finding someone that actually learned it in the old days, that would be very low dan numbers in Moo Duk Kwan, AND that still remembers the form we are talking about, or perhaps has very detailed notes on it that can be compared to the extant long fist forms. In short, if we ever get close, it is likely to be a reconstruction or accepting a form as done by CMA rather than whatever changes or modifications Hwang Kee made. And in the greater scheme of things, whether any of us ever knows a single form that was done at one time is really immaterial and probable near inconsequential in our study and growth as Tang Soo practioners. As to all the Tang Soo Do factions and organizations, and there are more all the time. I don't see any of them coming back together at any time in the future. But you have to remember, just because we individuals belong to different organizations doesn't mean that we can't and shouldn't share and help each other out as martial artists in a brotherhood. I agree with Master Richards that the Tae Kwon Do folks that still use Moo Duk Kwan is probably a misnomer. However, I do understand they still wish to hang on to their heritage. But wtf is so different it is hard to see a connection with what a lot of them are doing now. In fact, I believe that any organization that splintered from GM Hwang Kees organization really shouldn't use the Moo Duk Kwan name. It belonged to GM Hwang and his organization. The term Tang Soo Do however was in common usage and not only uswd by GM Hwang. Sorry this post grew so long, so I'll cut it off now. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:26:56 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dennis McHenry Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD Hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Amed, "I have been practicing TSD since 1991 and I have yet to find any written material or any one that can show me So Rim Jang Kwan or Tae Kuk Kwan." There is no mystery about Tae Kuk Kwan, as it is Taijichaun in 88 forms (about 400 moves), the Yang Tai Chi form that was systemized in 1956 I believe. So Rim Jang Kwan is a bit of a mystery and may be lost. The name SRJK is a more generic term for Shaolin Long Fist, and there are many forms (hyungs) associated with it - which one Hwang Kee used to do is not known. "Also I was interested in Tan Tui (springy legs) that Hwang Kee learned in Manchuria. " In Korean (Tan Tui 12) is known as Dam Doi Sip Ee Ro. There are several versions of Tan Tui/Dam Doi as well. If you notice when Hwang Kee developed the Yuk Ro forms, they simular in many ways. The opening choombe is the same as in Dam Doi. Instead of being "12 paths" (sip ee ro) he calls it 6 paths (yuk ro), but going down the line and back he considers '1' instead of '2'. Also, in the Muye dobo tongji in the Kwon bup secion it mentions Yuk Ro, so I believe that's why he named it that. So if you really want to say MooDukKwan from Hwang Kee's vision, you may want to work on the YukRo hyungs instead of the DamDoi 12 hyung. I myself have been trying to decide between them myself. Hope this helps, Mac TangSoo! http://McHenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:00:48 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kwans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To Mr. Richards and Bruce if you two would let me put my 2 cents worth into your conversation. My school's name is Wang-Ho Che Yuk Kwan (King Tiger's Gymnasium). I had a Korean wife once and she named me "Wang-Ho" I guess she wanted to be funny since I was born in the year of the tiger. So I used the name "Wang-Ho" as my school name. My two sons have korean middle names Young-Ho and Sung-Ho, Young Tiger and Wise Tiger. Their school name is Sang-Ho Che Yuk Kwan (Twin TigerGymnasium) My Association's Name is Ho Do Kwan Tae Kwon-Do Hyup Hae. (Tiger's Way TKD Association) Everyone in my association understands that and I tell them that we do the Chang-Hun Yu style of Tae Kwon-Do whuch would be the Oh Do Kwan. This seems like a lot of Bla, bla, bla. But what I guess I'm trying to say is that you don't have "your own" style but your own interpretation of an exhisting style. I incorporate weapons in my schools but they are not mandatory since true Tae Kwon-Do uses no weapons. It's just our way of doing things and our board of directors oversee and approve all the curriculums in my schools. No varyations of the Hyungs/Tuls are allowed. We've taken out the sine wave and went back to the original way of doing the Chon-Ji patterns the way Mr. Gomez and Myself learned them in the 1970s. Thanks again and Tae Kwon Master Manuel Maldonado http://devoted.to/Taekwondo  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service. Try it FREE for one month! --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:15:09 -0700 (PDT) From: John Merwin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] help on TSD Hyungs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Check out this site this might help or you can e-mail him. http://mchenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo/forms/index.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:18:12 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: wrist strength development Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 10/17/03 9:30:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Australia. I was wondering whether anyone uses (hard) punching bags in their training or exactly what excercises they use to develop wrist strength, as i would like to develop this." I have found sometimes that those excercizes can be detrimental to some wrists. There are some Kali stick warm-ups that I have found that strengthen and lengthen wrist at the same time without causing the damge the bodyweight wrist top push-ups do. Grab a stick or bamboo sword in the middle and rotate your wrists as far as they go in both directions doing this for 50 or 100 reps or until tired. ,then "Walk" your hands up via your finger to the top oif the stick and then grip and repeat the movements of the first set again, then walk down to bottom and do another set. This will give you good results. Jack --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Jason E. Thomas" To: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:04:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Swords... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I noticed that Bruce and several others on the list appear to also be Gumdo/Sword enthusiasts. I am looking for recommendations on where would be a good place to purchase a quality sword from. I am especially interested in Korean curved swords and straight swords. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Jason E. Thomas Chief Instructor North Austin Tae Kwon Do www.natkd.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] O-Sensei's USMA Fall Tour Seminar Schedule (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Get your advanced rank in any art you desire. Forwarding... United States Martial Arts Association 8011 Mariposa Avenue, Citrus Heights, CA 95610-1514 Tel: (916) 727-1486, Fax: (916) 727-7236, Email: psp83@earthlink.net USMA Home Page: http://www.mararts.org O-Sensei's 2003 Seminar Tour September through November, 2003 We are offering everyone a great opportunity to spend an evening or a weekend with O-Sensei Phil Porter, Founder of the USMA, 10th Degree Black belt in three styles of JuJitsu, and the highest ranking Judo teacher in Pan America (9th Dan) on this tour. Please note especially that Phil Porter will be testing and evaluating everyone for promotion in Martial Arts rank in all arts during this tour. Don't miss this opportunity, as this may be the last tour that O-Sensei makes. The following schedule is furnished to enable all interested Martial Artists to attend O-Sensei Phil Porter's seminars during this tour. Different material will be covered at every seminar; so many dedicated leaders will want to attend several of these excellent seminars. Let's take advantage of this wonderful technical opportunity. Note: Evening seminars include two sessions with a short break between. The two session evenings start at 6:00 or 6:30 PM. All weekend seminars are 9:00 AM-12:00 noon and 2:00-5:00 PM on both Saturday and Sunday unless otherwise indicated. Check with each host before coming, just to make sure there are no changes. September 23 Depart Sacramento, California. September 23-25 Driving. September 26 Pensacola, Florida. Two Friday evening sessions. Mr. Robert Ferguson, Home: (850) 313-1224. Email: fergmartialarts@cox.net September 27-28 Jonesboro, Arkansas. Two Saturday afternoon sessions, and two Sunday sessions. Mr. Glen Cole, Home: (870) 974-9144, Email: rhinocole@hotmail.com Sep 29-Oct 3 Driving October 4 Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Two Saturday sessions. Mr. Mehdi Mohammadian, Home: (920) 231-2952. October 7 Newark, Ohio. Two Tuesday evening sessions. Mr. Joseph Phillips, Home: (614) 476-2531. Email: Jphil25018@aol.com October 8-9 Watertown, NY, Two Wednesday and Thursday evening sessions. Judge Howard George, 6102 Gifford Road, Watertown, NY 13601, (315) 788-6788. Email Contact: Gary Baker: Email: mastergp@aol.com October 10 Colchester, VT. Two Friday evening sessions. Mr. David Quinlan, Home: (802) 893-8893. Email : mwsdc@sidairy.net October 11 White River Junction. Vermont. Two Saturday afternoon sessions. Mr. Ron Treem, Home: (603) 542-3887. Email: lonsan@hotmail.com October 12 Attleboro, Massachusetts. Two Sunday afternoon sessions. Mr. Robert Blaisdell, Home: (617) 347-4409. Email: imaf52@yahoo.com October 13 Waterbury, Connecticut. Two Monday evening sessions. Mr. Mike O’Bryan, Home: (203) 759-4020. Email: mobryan@banknorth.com October 14 Old Saybrook, Connecticut. Two Tuesday evening session. Mr. Steven Voelker. Email: sjvoelker@snet.net October 15 Taunton, Massachusetts. Two Wednesday evening sessions. Mr. Greg Mendes. Email: mendestsd@aol.com October 16-17 Baltimore, Maryland. Thursday and Friday evening sessions. Mr. Leroy Epperson, Home: (410) 327-3700, Email: gaijinryusoke@aol.com October 19-20 Clinton, Massachusetts. Two Sunday sessions, two Monday evening sessions. Mr. William Kamataris, Home: (978) 368-4344. Email: kamatris@comcast.net October 22-23 Fayetteville, North Carolina. Two Wednesday and Thursday evening sessions. Mr. Ronald Donvito, Home: (910) 797-9614. Email: ronalddonvito@hotmail.com October 24 Greenville, South Carolina. Two Friday evening sessions. Mr. Gary Owens, Home: (864) 294-1898. Email: callsignshazaam@aol.com October 26 Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. Two Sunday afternoon sessions. Mr. Glenn Davis, Home: (610) 989-0797. Email: gdavis@vfmac.edu October 27-28 Toledo, Ohio. Two Monday and Tuesday evening sessions. Mr. Edward Donnelly, Home: (419-693-9940. October 31 Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Two Friday evening sessions. Mr. Don McArtor, Home: (319) 286-9252. Email: dgmcarto@rockwellcollins.com November 1 Galesburg, Illinois. Two Saturday afternoon sessions. Mr. James Thompson, Home: (309) 343-7554, Email: thompson@galesburg.net November 3-8 St. Louis, MO, Monday through Friday, five evening sessions. Mr. Donn E. Schucker, PO Box 2171, St Louis, MO 63032. Home: (314) 838-0 869. Email: ynkyinc@aol.com November 10-11 Champaign, Illinois. Two Monday and Tuesday evening sessions. Mr. Michael Kleppin, Home: (217) 643-2672. Email: midhaelkleppin@yahoo.com November 14 Rapid City, South Dakota. Two Thursday evening sessions. Mr. Charles Drust, Home : (605) 348-3998. Email : cmdrustjr@yahoo.com November 16 Murray, Utah. Two Saturday sessions. Mr. Brady Kotter, (435) 734-0590. Email: bkotter@yahoo.com November 17 Return to Sacramento, California. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest