Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:05:42 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #452 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Interesting Article...Korean Swords (Jye nigma) 2. J R T O L A (L. Veuleman) 3. South Koreans trimming their tongues (Ray Terry) 4. Re: J R T O L A (Ray Terry) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Want_to_be_careful.......?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Promotion_by_the_Buck_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Mystery_TSD_Forms_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. Re:_Want_to_be_careful (Ray Terry) 9. Dam Doi, Chil Sung Hyung (Amed Hazel) 10. RE: Re: Want to be careful....... (Jason E. Thomas (Y!)) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:52:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Interesting Article...Korean Swords Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Development of Korean Swords ©1995 by Robert W. Young -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The oldest swords in Korea's museums are called "jik do," with straight double-edged blades. Among others, the National Museum in Kyungju and the National Museum of Korea in Seoul exhibit some primitive but interesting specimens, all in various states of decay. Scholars believe that ancient sword-making skills came from China. Korean technicians then worked to refine the imported technology over the centuries. For the modern martial artist who wants to start or add to his collection, functional swords are currently available in two varieties in Korea, the "gum" (from the Chinese word "jien") and the "do" (from the Chinese word "dao"). The gum (also spelled geom or kum) is a light double-edged weapon with a grip that accommodates only one hand. It is intended mostly for thrusting techniques. The do is a much heftier weapon and has a handle large enough for both hands. The blade is razor sharp on one side only and intended for slashing techniques. Korean sword makers developed quite advanced manufacturing techniques which helped spread the reputation of Korean blades throughout the region. It is widely believed that Japanese sword-making skills originated from imported Korean methods. Japanese craftsmen proceeded to happily perfect the skills, while in Korea the rise of Neo-Confucianism led to official disdain for the arts of war there. Consequently, the militaristic society of feudal Japan encouraged weapons-making, while the scholastic society of Korea despised it. Korean sword-making technology was left to stagnate. Had it been otherwise, Korean long swords might have been prized by modern collectors around the world, just as Japanese "katana" are today. Some Korean museums display pre-World War II Japanese swords, often with plaques erroneously saying they are of Korean origin. A few simple techniques help distinguish Korean and Japanese swords, both in the museum and in the sword shop. Near the blunt edge of a Japanese blade, one usually finds a longitudinal channel, or blood grove. Korean swords do not have this. The tips of Japanese swords have angular lines where different cutting edges have been shaped. Korean swords tend to be smooth from the blunt edge to sharp edge, with no straight lines running the length of the blade. The Japanese wrap the handles of their swords with thin strips of cloth, but Koreans usually construct theirs of wood. Additionally, sheaths to Japanese-style swords--at least the ones found in Korea--usually are of smooth black wood (or some imitation). Korean sheaths are much more extravagant, often crafted from gold or mother of pearl. Occasionally Buddhist symbols (reversed swastikas) are used. Metal bands and lashing rings are also attached. A great number of old swords remains out of circulation, locked away in the houses of collectors who resist showing them out of fear of government confiscation. The only way these valuable blades can be seen is by developing a friendship with someone who happens to own some, then convincing him or her to let you take a peek. If that is not possible, the museums remain your best bet. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:43:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "L. Veuleman" To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] J R T O L A Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce and JR, Thanks for mentioning that Bruce, so how bout it JR? I was gonna wait till I was sure you were home before I asked, but the van seems neverstopping, so there it is. Charlie Veuleman ************** L. Charles Veuleman - http://www.bluewavekarate.com Natchitoches Karate Institute - Chittim Jordan Tae Kwon Do 318-356-7727 Natchitoches Kustom Inks - Quality Screen Printing 318-332-1676 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] South Koreans trimming their tongues Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A short cut to better spoken English South Koreans trimming their tongues to improve speech SEOUL, Oct. 17 Chop a centimeter or so off your tongue and become a fluent English speaker. That is the hope that recently drove one mother to take her six-year-old son for surgery aimed at ridding him of his Korean accent when speaking the language of choice in global business. DRIVEN BY A desire to give their kids an edge in an increasingly competitive society, a surprising number of South Koreans have turned to the knife in a seemingly drastic bid to help their offspring perfect their English. Those who have a short frenulum (a strap of tissue linking the tongue to the floor of the mouth) can face problems pronouncing some characters due to a disturbance in lateral movements of the tongue, said Bae Jung-ho, an oral surgeon at Seouls Yonsei Severance Hospital, who operated on the six-year-old last month. Bae said it takes about five minutes to complete the operation, called a frenotomy, which slices 1 to 1.5 cm (about half an inch) off the frenulum to make the tongue more flexible. There is a razor-thin risk of complications and, unless it is the best option possible, we dont recommend it. Bae said that he had received many inquiries about the operation, mostly for children aged between 12 months and 10 years. Of these, only 10 to 20 percent had led to surgery. The doctor said he performed the surgery, which costs 150,000 won ($127), once or twice per month. For a tangible improvement for those with ankyloglossia the medical term for those with a short frenulum months of language training is needed even after surgery. It takes time to see pronunciation actually improve as picking up a language or saying it properly is a complicated process to master, he added. EXCESSIVE ENTHUSIASM Using surgery to enhance your looks is already very common in South Korea, where many resort to plastic surgery to make their eyes bigger, noses shapelier and even their calves slimmer. In the case of tongue surgery, many psychologists, professors and native English speakers argue that there are many downsides. Dr. Shin Min-sup, a professor at Seoul National University who specializes in issues of adolescent psychiatry, is worried about the trend for surgery and also for pushing young children too hard to learn languages. Theres the potential for life-damaging after-effects, Shin said. Learning a foreign language too early, in some cases, may not only cause a speech impediment but, in the worst case, make an child autistic. Whats wrong with speaking English with an accent anyway? Many parents tend to discount the importance of a well-rounded education, Shin said. Robin Bulman, an American living in Seoul who has an adopted five-year-old Korean daughter, felt that surgery might hurt a childs self-confidence. I think its gross. Mutilating childrens tongues is not the solution. If a parent takes his child into the surgery and then, if the child is still unable to speak unaccented English, what would that do to the childs self-esteem? Bulman says her daughter speaks perfect English, admittedly with a strong Montana accent. If theres just some real problem with Koreans speaking English, a physiological problem with their bodies, how can a pure Korean child speak perfect English? GROWING FOREIGN PARTICIPATION You would be hard-pressed to find a country that is more feverish in its attempts to learn English than South Korea. From toddlers to students to office workers, learning English has become a national obsession. The focus on English surged after the 1997-98 Asian financial crisis rocked South Koreas economy, Asias fourth-largest, throwing a record number of people out of work. Financial markets were subsequently flung open and foreign investment flowed in, creating a need for communication. English is now becoming a means of survival, said Cha Kyoung-ae, a professor who teaches English at a local university. Entering a college, getting jobs and getting promoted many things hinge heavily on your mastery of English. The surgery may be an extreme case but it reflects a social phenomenon, said Cha. When it comes to language, money and prestige speak louder. Many Koreans believe an early start in English could give their children an edge and so do not hesitate to send them overseas or at least to evening classes. Central bank data show that spending for overseas study by South Koreans, including those who leave purely for a language course, jumped to $1.43 billion in 2002 from $960 million in 2000. The number of people leaving the country to study is also on the rise. Nearly 344,000 Koreans departed last year, up sharply on a figure of about 200,000 in 1999. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] J R T O L A To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 07:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Thanks for mentioning that Bruce, so how bout it JR? He is on the road right now. Why not give him a call next week? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:37:34 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Want_to_be_careful.......?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jason: "...... I am especially interested in Korean curved swords and straight swords. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated......" I have quite a range of resources that you might want to consider but do not want to post them here unless Ray gives it a go ahead. Everyone has been very good about respecting the non-commercial approach here and I think it has kept quality up. (Ray, do you have any comments?) Another point is that purchasing a Korean sword---- or any actual weapon--- -is quite a bit more than just buying one off the shelf for the best price point. Such factors as usage (form? cutting? paired work? drawing?), your personal preferences, your physique and even you level of experience will all factor in. It is also not unusual for your needs and desires regarding usage to alter as your training ripens or wanes. I'd be glad to make some suggestions but I think I am asking you for more information about your goals. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:41:57 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Promotion_by_the_Buck_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "....Please note especially that Phil Porter will be testing and evaluating everyone for promotion in Martial Arts rank in all arts during this tour....." Great! And this new promotion will mean exactly what to ones' career, their MA community or a persons' technical standing in his art? Why doesn't he just stay home, do it all by mail and save the travel? BTW: Does this person have any legit standing in any of the KMA? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:57:50 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Mystery_TSD_Forms_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Manuel, John, Dennis et al: ".....There is no mystery about Tae Kuk Kwan, as it is Taijichaun in 88 forms (about 400 moves), the Yang Tai Chi form that was systemized in 1956 I believe....." If I had to hazard a guess---- and this is JUST A GUESS--- I think that we will find that the "Tae Kuk" form may well turn out to be the LAO JIA YI LU ("Old Frame, first form") which is one LOOOONNNG form introducing the student to the biomechanics of Chen Tai Chi Chuan. As most of you know Chen is one of the more demanding and arguably one of the more combat- oriented styles of TCC. The International Chen Style Taijiquan Association headed by Ren Guang-Yi has this on tape. (NY. 718-358-5284) The other form (So Rim Chang Kwon) may well turn out to be LAO JIA ER LU ("Old Frame, second form" AKA "Cannonfist form"). I say this because tradition holds that this form was derived (27 of 32 methods) from Taizu Long Fist. That Chen assn I mentioned also has this form on tape. What I am trying to run-down right now is resources that will demonstrate the original Taizu LF methods so we can bump those up against what we know today. Now before you start tuning up and saying that a TSD form can't be a TCC form because we all know how slowly such form are done let me remind you of something you probably heard before. While Yang, Wu, Sun and other styles of TCC are encouraged to be done slowly, Chen TCC traditionally has been done at "normal" form/kata/hyung speed with many change-ups and slowdowns. As I say this is all just guessing. The real proof for this pudding will be in the tasting, which is to say, the comparing of the TSD material against Chen TCC or Taizu LF or anything else for that matter. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:09:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:_Want_to_be_careful Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "...... I am > especially interested in Korean curved swords and straight swords. Any > suggestions would be greatly appreciated......" > > I have quite a range of resources that you might want to consider but do > not want to post them here unless Ray gives it a go ahead. Everyone has > been very good about respecting the non-commercial approach here and I > think it has kept quality up. (Ray, do you have any comments?) Recommendations are just fine. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Amed Hazel" To: Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:01:04 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dam Doi, Chil Sung Hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the replies they have been helpful. But I have heard a lot about Dam Doi but I have never seen it in a reference or seen it performed. The highest Chil Sung I saw performed was Sa Roh. I would like to see Dam Doi only to see where Hwang Kee KJN thought process was headed if that possible. I can see in the beginning Chil Sung how he incorporated the circular with the linear. I still have plenty to study with the current set of Hyung and with Hapkido. FWIW I heard from Len Losik that he had a version of Tae Kuk Kwan in one of his books. But I had to spend $80 to get it. Aaahhh nah! He also told me that he was sent a different version of the form by KJN Joe Parrish! I know KJN J Parrish and I belong to the National TSD Federation of which he is the VP. But again getting information is like pulling teeth --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jason E. Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Want to be careful....... Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:01:42 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I'm fine with you not posting such a list to the group. If you have any recommendations, I'd be happy to receive them offline. I'm not looking to help commercial (or other types of sword makers/sellers). I'm asking for references for a personal purchase and wanted to get the benefit of other people's, experiences. Regards, Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com [mailto:bsims@midwesthapkido.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 11:38 AM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Want to be careful....... > > Dear Jason: > > "...... I am > especially interested in Korean curved swords and straight swords. Any > suggestions would be greatly appreciated......" > > I have quite a range of resources that you might want to consider but do > not want to post them here unless Ray gives it a go ahead. Everyone has > been very good about respecting the non-commercial approach here and I > think it has kept quality up. (Ray, do you have any comments?) > > Another point is that purchasing a Korean sword---- or any actual weapon-- > - > -is quite a bit more than just buying one off the shelf for the best price > point. Such factors as usage (form? cutting? paired work? drawing?), your > personal preferences, your physique and even you level of experience will > all factor in. It is also not unusual for your needs and desires regarding > usage to alter as your training ripens or wanes. I'd be glad to make some > suggestions but I think I am asking you for more information about your > goals. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest