Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:10:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #454 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. So Rim Jang Kwon again (Charles Richards) 2. Kwan (Charles Richards) 3. Submission: The importance of sparring (shannon mcneil) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Phil_Porter_and_the_KMA?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_CHOSON_SE_BUP?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. Selling rank (Rudy Timmerman) 7. Young bros TKD... (George Peters) 8. OS Phil Porter? (John Wallace) 9. South Korean Tongues and other strangeness (A. Boyd) 10. Re: OS Phil Porter? (Ray Terry) 11. JRTOLA (J.R. West) 12. Re: KSW sword origins (Michael Whalen) 13. Re: Dam Doi, Chil Sung Hyung (Ray Terry) 14. Buyer Beware (Manuel Maldonado) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:26:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] So Rim Jang Kwon again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> There is no mystery about Tae Kuk Kwan, as it is Taijichaun in 88 forms (about 400 moves), the Yang Tai Chi form that was systemized in 1956 I believe. <> So after I begin to understand Wansu, Jion and OhSipSaBo, I will seek out someone qualified to properly teach me the Yang Style 88 form set,neh? Of course I'm not sure I'll ever get comfortable being "Master Richards", much less a 7th Dan, but all that material looks like fun :-) <> So Rim Jang Kwan is a bit of a mystery and may be lost. The name SRJK is a more generic term for Shaolin Long Fist, and there are many forms (hyungs) associated with it - which one Hwang Kee used to do is not known...... In Korean (Tan Tui 12) is known as Dam Doi Sip Ee Ro. There are several versions of Tan Tui/Dam Doi as well. If you notice when Hwang Kee developed the Yuk Ro forms, they simular in many ways. The opening choombe is the same as in Dam Doi. Instead of being "12 paths" (sip ee ro) he calls it 6 paths (yuk ro), but going down the line and back he considers '1' instead of '2'. Also, in the Muye dobo tongji in the Kwon bup secion it mentions Yuk Ro, so I believe that's why he named it that. So if you really want to say MooDukKwan from Hwang Kee's vision, you may want to work on the YukRo hyungs instead of the DamDoi 12 hyung. I myself have been trying to decide between them myself. <> Mac, I finally had a chance to re-review the Dam Tui information you shared with me, and can see some value in it, but not sure where to insert it in a TSD cirricula, or my unique cirricula, I think that's why KJN Hwang "sprinkled" the SBD requirements with Chilsung and Yuk Rho sets. I have my own ideas about maybe even accepting it as a substitute for SRJK, as it teaches basic long fist, and coupled with Yang Style TJQ just might meet the intent of keeping the Hwa Soo Do alive in Tang Soo Do for us decendants of Master Hwang... Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:33:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> But what I guess I'm trying to say is that you don't have "your own" style but your own interpretation of an exhisting style. < Great someone said it with less words than Bruce and I :-) It would be Richards-ha Karate to the Japanese. Moja Kwan for my harmonious interpretation of KMA :-) BTW my son has a Cherokee middle name and my daughter has a swahili middle name :-) Yours in Jung Do, Charles www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "shannon mcneil" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:51:18 -0300 Subject: [The_Dojang] Submission: The importance of sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey all I am currently in Kyuk Too Ki (korean kickboxing), and have sparred on numerous occasions. How important is sparring in regular kickboxing? I understand that it incorporates offence / defence tactics in a practical environment, but I have a problem with it because my nose is very weak -- I have had several operations on it and can't afford to go through with another one. I am planning to move back to North America in two months, and am planning to perhaps start jiu jitsu or judo or something of that nature. Anyway, any thoughts on sparring and it's importance / how integral it is to a certain discipline (especially kickboxing) would be appreciated. Shannon. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:56:41 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Phil_Porter_and_the_KMA?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jeff: "..... Nonetheless, he is a Judo wiz and one of the best there is at that game. But he has no background in KMA......" Thanks for the info. I suppose that a person who is just looking for pricey wallpaper won't care one way or the other, but it helps to keep some of these names straight and know exactly who can do what and who can't. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:00:37 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_CHOSON_SE_BUP?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Chris: ".....I believe the correct weapon for Choson Se Bup would be little longer and heavier than a tai chi sword and it would have a double handed pommel. ..." Thanks for confirming that. I believe that folks are going to want to make sure that they are using the right sword for the right form when it comes to these old sword methods. I was truely surprised when I read Boots' article on Korean weaponry and viewed some of the pics that went along with it. Its amazing the wide variety of swords that were used. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:33:28 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Selling rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeff Writes: > He formed a new organization and, by all appearances (but to be > fair, hard to tell) seems to be kind of selling out rank now. > Nonetheless, > he is a Judo wiz and one of the best there is at that game. > > But he has no background in KMA. Hello Jeff: I met GM Porter in CT a few years back, and we exchanged niceties and cards. I was quite surprised to receive a letter with an offer to promote me to 10th dahn a few weeks later. Unfortunate indeed; because, as you said, the man is a legend in his own art... Judo. BTW, folks, I my email capabilities were severely reduced for the past week or so. Alas, I'm sure no one missed me:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:35:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Young bros TKD... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir: There a Young Brothers TKD in Cranberry Township near Pittsburgh, PA. My telephone directory lists their phone number as 724-772-0009. Hope this is of use to you. Respectfully, George Peters _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service. Try it FREE for one month! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "John Wallace" To: Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:36:01 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] OS Phil Porter? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That's pretty cheeky. Isn't O-Sensei generally understood to be Ueshiba Morihei of Aikido? -JW ----------------------- O-Sensei's 2003 Seminar Tour September through November, 2003 We are offering everyone a great opportunity to spend an evening or a weekend with O-Sensei Phil Porter, Founder of the USMA, 10th Degree Black belt in three styles of JuJitsu, and the highest ranking Judo teacher in Pan America (9th Dan) on this tour. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:28:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] South Korean Tongues and other strangeness Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The tongue surgery is not nearly as common as eyelid surgery or other forms of cosmetic surgery, but it is common enough. Sadly, it does not have the desired effect. It is hard to grasp how important appearance is in the Korean culture until you have lived in it for a while. In a way, it is a bit like that old Billy Crystal schtick: It is better to look good than to feel good. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] OS Phil Porter? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > That's pretty cheeky. Isn't O-Sensei generally understood to be Ueshiba > Morihei of Aikido? O'Sensei. Just a title, meaning (I think) Great Teacher. There is more than one great teacher. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:55:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] JRTOLA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just returned from the MD/PA area and am headed out to Master Hodder's school Houston, TX on Friday morning with a several hour lunch stop in Baton Rouge at the world famous "Mongolian BBQ". I would love to come to Charlie's area of the world and to make it happen, all we have to do is pick out a date and agree to the pound or two of flesh. If anyone else has an interest in the "Stealth Van Tour, 2003-2004", just drop me a line. Best to all........JRW www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:03:40 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KSW sword origins Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: Do you know if these sword forms were organized by the Kuk Sool people (read also In Sun Seo/ In Hyuk Suh) themselves, derived from Chinese traditions or originated somewhere in Korean traditions themselves? Any background information would be appreciated. Bruce, The Sword skills taught in Kuk Sool are reported to have originated from 2 sources: The Korean Royal Court and Sa Do Moo Sool (Tribal or Family Martial Art indegineous to korea which contained Doo Rai groups similar to local Milita) It is unclear as to whether Kuk Sa Nim organized or simply maintained an exsisting set of skills so as to not be forgotten. Sorry, not much help but am still researching. Respectfully, michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Dam Doi, Chil Sung Hyung To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > FWIW I heard from Len Losik that he had a version of Tae Kuk Kwan in one > of his books. But I had to spend $80 to get it. >From the articles he has submitted to TKD Times et al, one wonders just how much he really knows about the KMAs... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:08:09 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Buyer Beware Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've been in Taekwondo most of my life and I've never been through what I'm going through. Many of out Martial Arts magazines announce to join this organization or join that organization. We offer legitimate credentials or are your credentials that you issue your students good past your door? Man so much stuff is out there that it makes you head spin. One such organization is the USA-ITF formally named ITF-KATU. GM Hwang is one of thease that announce legitamate credentials he claims that he offers real ITF certification. Well he can't. If you have noticed that his ads have been pulled out of Taekwondo Times (brought to my attention by a very good friend of mine). I'm sure that most of you have read the TKD Times magazine this month about the 3 ITFs. Well they somewhat mention him. GM Hwang tested me last year for my next Dan and he has yet to produce any Certificate or even my money back. I've contacted the ITF and several high ranking black belts of our organization. Well GM Hwang called me the other day yelling me and told me that I had no right talking to anyone about my situation, I thought I lived in the USA where I have freedom of speach, He also informed me that I will never get my ITF Certificate or my money back and theres nothing I can do about it. Well I contacted the BBB of Manchester Conn. and voiced a legitamate complaint. I'm not one to bad mouth anyone since I always see good in everybody. But this has gone too far. As far as I'm concerned I lost my close to $700.00, my wife is mad at me for "giving away" our hard earned money. To be honest her opinion is the only one that counts since I do have to live and sleep with her. Please I'm warning each and everyone of you to stay away from GM Hwang and his organization and if you are a member do as many of us are doing and leave. Join one of the other ITFs or go on your own. Me I'm going on my own, but, I'm going to keep at arms length to one of the other two ITFs that are out there. As a friend of mine said to me this morning she's waiting until the dust settles before she decides where she's going to go. I think that the USA-ITF or ITF-KATU will die very soon. So buyer beware. Thanks again. Manuel Maldonado Ho Do Kwan Tae Kwon-Do Association. http://devoted.to/Taekwondo   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service. Try it FREE for one month! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest