Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:01:51 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #455 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Guildford, England TKD Instructors out there? (Ellen P) 2. Sword Recommendations (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 3. O-Sensei (Dr. Daryl Covington) 4. Re: Buyer Beware (Jye nigma) 5. Buyer Beware (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_OS_Phil_Porter?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TSD_Hyung?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Mixed_Signals_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_KSW_sword_work_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:08:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen P To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Guildford, England TKD Instructors out there? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We have a student that is moving back to his homeland (England)....can anyone make a TKD instructor/school/club recommendation? He is moving to the Surrey area (specifically Guildford, England) and would like to continue training - any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Ellen __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:53:42 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sword Recommendations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A couple of comments on Bruce's sword recommendations: BTW, Bruce, good job on the list. One of my students recently ordered one of the Bugei swords. It took 3 months to arrive, but it is a nice blade. It was one of the $1000 models. A friend of mine recently bought a Bugei then had it re-fitted and re-polished, he is very pleased with it. It only cost him about $5000 total for a $10,000 blade. But you should be an experienced collector before trying this. I prefer pre-1986 Japanese swords, but you get what you pay for - a 'real' blade, can easily run several thousand dollars. (The main era's for blades are: Koto pre 1596; Shinto 1596-1780; ShinShinto 1781-1886; and Gendaito 1887-to present). Remember, that a blade is NOT sharpened, it is polished! A polisher can charge over $100 per inch of blade! Understand what you are using the blade for, if it is for cutting practice, consider one of the higher end blades. If it is for form work only, balance of the blade is a concern. Consider one of the Iaido, non-sharp blades (they can also run several thousand). Once again, you want a nice one, but not necessarily the price of the cutting blades. Blade Hardware is interchangeable. So do not be to concerned with the hardware as you can get a nice tsuba (guard) for around $125. In fact, for a little more, you can also get an old one. Mine is around 350 years old and only ran a few hundred. (here is a picture of my blade during a demo: http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/Library.jpg). If you are in a big city in the US, such as Houston or Chicago, you can attend the annual auction and swap by the local USJSS (United States Japanese Sword Society). I bought my 1884 blade at the one held in Houston. I bought the blade and had it polished and re-fitted. (Link: http://www.jssus.org/). But there are folks that specialize in collecting one part of the hardware and they have nice selections at the shows. You will also find a few Chinese and Korean blades. I do not remember if it is in the Independence Hall or the War Memorial in Korea, but the 3 Kingdom Wing had a great exhibit of blades and honestly, many of them looked 100% Japanese. In fact, the majority of the Korean sword practitioners I have seen use Japanese blades, some have changed the fittings. So I would not be to concerned with a "Korean" sword. Remember, that different era's in Japan had different curvature of the blade, from straight - Arabian style curves. Sorry about the repeat, as most of this was brought up last year on this list. Just some thoughts and opinions.... Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com PS. Bruce, Jennifer is going to remind me to bring my blade to Fort Wayne. That way I won't forget this time... --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:35:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] O-Sensei Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net O- Sensei literally means "BIG Sensei", It carries the connotations of maybe Cong Kwan Jang Nim, Kuk Sa Nim, or Do Ju Nim would have. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Buyer Beware To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What a shame! I had 2 teachers who were under GM Hwang and they were very good teachers, and GM hwang was a very good teacher as well. Too bad business can get in the way of martial arts. Jye --- Manuel Maldonado wrote: > I've been in Taekwondo most of my life and I've > never been through what > I'm going through. Many of out Martial Arts > magazines announce to join > this organization or join that organization. We > offer legitimate > credentials or are your credentials that you issue > your students good > past your door? Man so much stuff is out there that > it makes you head > spin. One such organization is the USA-ITF formally > named ITF-KATU. GM > Hwang is one of thease that announce legitamate > credentials he claims > that he offers real ITF certification. Well he > can't. If you have noticed > that his ads have been pulled out of Taekwondo Times > (brought to my > attention by a very good friend of mine). I'm sure > that most of you have > read the TKD Times magazine this month about the 3 > ITFs. Well they > somewhat mention him. GM Hwang tested me last year > for my next Dan and he > has yet to produce any Certificate or even my money > back. I've contacted > the ITF and several high ranking black belts of our > organization. Well GM > Hwang called me the other day yelling me and told me > that I had no right > talking to anyone about my situation, I thought I > lived in the USA where > I have freedom of speach, He also informed me that I > will never get my > ITF Certificate or my money back and theres nothing > I can do about it. > Well I contacted the BBB of Manchester Conn. and > voiced a legitamate > complaint. I'm not one to bad mouth anyone since I > always see good in > everybody. But this has gone too far. As far as I'm > concerned I lost my > close to $700.00, my wife is mad at me for "giving > away" our hard earned > money. To be honest her opinion is the only one that > counts since I do > have to live and sleep with her. Please I'm warning > each and everyone of > you to stay away from GM Hwang and his organization > and if you are a > member do as many of us are doing and leave. Join > one of the other ITFs > or go on your own. Me I'm going on my own, but, I'm > going to keep at arms > length to one of the other two ITFs that are out > there. As a friend of > mine said to me this morning she's waiting until the > dust settles before > she decides where she's going to go. I think that > the USA-ITF or ITF-KATU > will die very soon. So buyer beware. Thanks again. > Manuel Maldonado Ho Do > Kwan Tae Kwon-Do Association. > http://devoted.to/Taekwondo   > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN > 8 Dial-up Internet > Service. Try it FREE for one month! > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:03:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Buyer Beware Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Would tkd times publish a letter from you about this phone call in response to their ITF article? $700 is a lot of money to literally throw away... Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:35:16 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_OS_Phil_Porter?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: What I don't know about Japanese culture would fill a small library, but there was an interesting comment about the term "O-sensei" made sometime back on E-Budo which may give pause for consideration. Apparently the term is not a term of address or rank as much as a term of reference. From what I am lead to believe, one would not address someone as "O-sensei Jones" or correlate "O-sensei" with a 10th Dan or the Japanese equivalent of "grandmaster". Rather, the term seems to be used by the MA community to identify an extraordinary talent, commonly deceased, whose contributions to an art are uniformly recognized in the MA community. One could reasonably refer to Gichin Funakoshi, Jigoro Kano or Yamaoka Tesshu as "O- sensei". In this manner to use the term is somewhat dated, but exceptable, while to use it on a living person is a bit pretentious in much the same manner as some Westerners assume the title "soke". There is also the term "meijin" but I am far less certain as to its usage outside of the context of Japanese sword traditions. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:38:26 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_TSD_Hyung?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: ".....I finally had a chance to re-review the Dam Tui information you shared with me, and can see some value in it, but not sure where to insert it in a TSD cirricula, or my unique cirricula, I think that's why KJN Hwang "sprinkled" the SBD requirements with Chilsung and Yuk Rho sets....." I thought it was a foregone conclusion that these two hyung represented the highest point of TSD hyung practice. Wouldn't it follow that they would be withheld from all but the most serior practitioners? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:43:43 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Mixed_Signals_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray et al: I had been given to believe that Len Losik has publish quite a bit in the way of TSD material. Am I given to understand that his information may not be all that it is presented as? Inquiring minds would like to know. If noone wants to venture an opinion on the Net please contact me off-line. It helps to know if a persons' truth needs to be "salted" before swallowing. Thanks. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:58:12 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_KSW_sword_work_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Michael: ".....The Sword skills taught in Kuk Sool are reported to have originated from 2 sources: The Korean Royal Court and Sa Do Moo Sool (Tribal or Family Martial Art indegineous to korea which contained Doo Rai groups similar to local Milita) It is unclear as to whether Kuk Sa Nim organized or simply maintained an exsisting set of skills so as to not be forgotten. Sorry, not much help but am still researching....." Many thanks and keep those bit and pieces coming. If I find anything out I will certainly pass it back. However, right from the git I have a problem. If the sword work descends from the Sado Mu Sool material, that pre-dates the Three Kingdoms period which, of itself we have no information of exactly what their martial science looked like in execution or training. At the other extreme. we have the MU YEI TOBO TONG JI which gives us a snap shot circa 1800, but by the time that the Yi dynasty ended the security of the Korean king was in the hands of assorted powers at various times. If we presume that In Sun Seos' grandfather was discharged from service in 1907 with the dissolution of the Korean security forces and he was 70 when he was killed in the Korean War, he would have been somewhere around 25 (or less) when he was discharged back to his hometown from military service. What traditions, then, would a 20 y/o in 1900 learn coming to work as a member of the Kings' security force at a time when the security of the king was in the hands of a variety of forces for time to time? I'm just dying to know what material is in those 5 notebooks that the grandfather left to his grandson and where it came from. Why would he have had to keep notebooks when ther were manuals in existance that covered the training of security personnel? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest