Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 03:01:48 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #465 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Missing 10% in TSD (Ken Nessworthy) 2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kwans_vs_Styles_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_45_=3F!=3F!=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. Re: Different styles of Hapkido (Duane Smiley) 5. Re: Re: Different styles of Hapkido (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Ken Nessworthy" To: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:03:09 -0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Missing 10% in TSD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All, I have being doing a little research in to the origins of TSD and what GM Hwang Kee studied while in China but I have hit a bit of a wall. We all know that Tang Soo Do is made up of 60% Soo Bahk Do, 30% Northern Chinese (Shaolin Long Fist, Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan and Tan Tui) and 10% Southern Chinese. My question is - what style in Southern Chinese did Grandmaster Hwang Kee study??. A little bit about me. I currently run the Shinson Tang Soo Do Association within the UK (Newcastle upon Tyne area) after leaving the WTSDA under GM Shin. Last year we joined the European Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do Federation under the guidance of GM Salm 8th Dan from Rotterdam, Holland and also under master Kumar (Traditional Tang Soo Do Association, UK) 7th Dan SBD. GM Salm also holds a 9th Dan in Hakido and TKD and is reported to be the highest ranking non-Korean in Europe. His knowledge in all aspects of TSD second to non. The European Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do Federation was formed by GM Salm to bring together all TSD practitioners within Europe under one banner with totally no interference in how your school is run or it's politics. This weekend GM Salm was inducted in the Combat Black belt hall of Fame for his total dedication in the Korean arts for the last 50 years. Pil Sung Ken Nessworthy, Sam Dan --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:07:43 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kwans_vs_Styles_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Duane: "....While visiting the web site for the Korean Hapkido Federation, I read that there are 76 different styles of Hapkido recognized by their Federation. Could some one please tell me about the different styles of Hapkido and what distinguishes one style from the others. Thank you in advance for your insight......" Well, yes and no. First off, an organization recognizing a kwan is not the same as recognizing a "style". Kwans are not "styles" although it is possible for a kwan, or group of kwans to use a particular approach to a KMA as some sort of collective. To my knowledge there are only three styles of Hapkido arts. One style is th heavily Chinese influenced group such as the KUK SUL or the HWA RANG DO folks. Then there are those folks who espouse practicing an art nearly identical to the DAITO-RYU traditions out of Japan. I sometimes characterize these folks as pseudo-Daito-ryu in that while what they practice is very similar to Daito-ryu in execution, you probably woun't find any of these folks placing themselves under the authority of an actual Daito-ryu organization. Finally there are the folks such as Ji Han Jae and Moo Woong Kim who crossed what they learned from Choi with whatever material they learned from other sources in Korea (essentially Taek Kyon) and produced what we recognize in those traditions that proceed from these sources. Getting back to an organization recognizing 76 kwans, I don't see anything wrong with that. What they are saying is that they make room for 76 different schools or gyms which focus primarily on Hapkido. Why are there so many? Mostly because everybody with a belly-button likes putting their own educational spin on the art. Some people want to teach Hapkido as a burgeoning sport, while others want to teach it as a system of combat, while yet others want to teach it as a calesthetic, and still others just want to make money off it by using it as an activity for its novelty or time-structuring possibilities. To do this, each school has organized a way of teaching or instructing to move the student towards its selected goals. It does not make a new "style" of hapkido to simply change the way in which it is taught. What would make a new style is if a significantly different method of execution, still consistent with the Three Pillars, were invented and demonstrated to be effective. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:25:04 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_45_=3F!=3F!=3F_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Kevin: ".....>From the picture posted on other chat sites, it appears that the big seminar in Florida drew only 43 - 45 people on the first day...interesting....." You have GOT to be s***ting me! A reasonable seminar with GM Myung could be 40 or 50 to perhaps 100 people and thats just in the Chicago area. If I am hearing this right, Oh See Lim, the president of the Korea Hapkido Federation comes to the States and could reasonably expect KHF members from Canada, US, Mexico and Central and South America. Instead there is a turn-out of about 45 people!?! Did he have a large retinue with him from Korea in front of which he could be at least reasonably embarrassed? Where was National Director Wannabe and his National Representative Gary? Did the president of the Yudo Assn put in an appearance? Were any of the 7th and 8th dans "recognized by the KHF" present? Best of all--- how about the much touted announcements? Were the revelations, advertised well in advance, made by Oh See Lim? How about the announcement making Wannabe the National Director? Now, I'm not talking about something someone heard from a friend of a friend. I mean did Pres. Oh See Lim get up in front of the group of 45 people and make the announcements that Wannabe said he would make for everyone to hear loud and clear? How about the testing. I assume that Pres. Oh See Lim presided over the testing, yes? Does anyone know what the testing was comprised of? Did wannabee get out on the mat and demonstrate his Gmasterly prowess in front of his Korean peers and fellow GM-s? I could go on and on but the fact is we can all probably guess at the answers. The fun will start when all of the two-stepping and back-pedaling start on Monday. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Duane Smiley" To: Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:15:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Different styles of Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, The link to the web site I visited is below, I thought it was the official site for the KHF but I guess I was mistaken. However, this site uses the KHF logo and all of the information on this site pertains to the KHF. The question I originally asked is located under the FAQ section of this web site. Below is a copy of the statement that lead to the question I originally asked about the different styles of Hapkido and what distinguishes one style from the other styles. Quote from web site: "There are over 78 styles of Hapkido recognized by the KHF. Some Kwan's existed prior to 1945, but did not receive KHF recognition until later years." http://www.koreahapkidofederation.com/ So if there is any one out there who could help me with my question your assistance is appreciated. Duane --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Different styles of Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:26:42 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The link to the web site I visited is below, I thought it was the official > site for the KHF but I guess I was mistaken. ... > ... > http://www.koreahapkidofederation.com/ Doing a 'whois' on that domain name shows the URL registered in Ocoee, Florida. The KHF is not located in Florida. The above is not the official website of the KHF, just the website of some joker than is trying to fool people. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest