Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:02:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #466 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Florida (Dr. Daryl Covington) 2. Re: florida $$ (Michael Whalen) 3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kwan_Recognition_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 4. Re: Re: Florida (Ray Terry) 5. Seabrook Seminar (rich hodder) 6. Naifanji (Charles Richards) 7. Choosing a Dojang (Charles Richards) 8. TSD (Charles Richards) 9. Seminar (Lawren Hasten) 10. Gm Hwang Kee (Ray Terry) 11. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Unified_Field_Theory_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:58:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Florida Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was there and can testify that there were many more than 43-45. There were over 70 just at the opening ceremony, with others coming in the next day. There were Masters from all over the states, Canada, Columbia, Argentina, Several from Korea, Including Master Bae, and of course Oh, Se Lim. Yes, the Pres. of the Yudo Assn. was there, as was the Vice Pres of the United States Ju Jitsu Federation, out of respect for Oh, Se Lim. I had an opportunity to speak directly with master Bae and Master Oh. There was TV coverage as well. Like em, Love em, or Hate em, It was a good event. Judging an event from a picture is not a good thing to do. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:55:58 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: florida $$ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From the picture posted on other chat sites, it appears that the >big seminar in Florida drew only 43 - 45 people on the first >day.. It seems to me that $350 a pop at the door for 13 hours worth of training is a bit high (flyer read: 3hrs fri / 8 hrs. sat / 2 hrs. sun). Add hotel , meals , airfare and car rental if needed and you're talking some change $$. I know that material covered , higher ranking guests , dinners and the such will present a wide range of prices at any event. However, I would like to know what the average person pays for 2 full days of good quality training? michael (maybe I'm too tight with the dollar) whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:59:59 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kwan_Recognition_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Duane: "......Quote from web site: "There are over 78 styles of Hapkido recognized by the KHF. Some Kwan's existed prior to 1945, but did not receive KHF recognition until later years........" Despite some of the things that have happened to me and to people I know in the last 18 months please take what I am about to say as having no personal anger or antagonism. It is simply the view of someone who is VERY disappointed at how badly KMA organizations have missed the boat. IMVVHO it simply does not matter one bit WHAT the organization--- any organization--- "recognizes". In the end, what matters is how well regarded the organization is by its membership and its peers. The pivotal points here are Respect and Regard. Over the years I have gone to schools and clubs to teach seminars, many times at my own expense and without compensation. It was not a matter that the folks I taught weren't members of a "recognized kwan". They wanted to learn and I wanted to teach--- its as simple as that. Taking it a step farther, I feel a connection with JR and Rudy because I see, hear and feel the same sort of attitude from them (they just do it better :-) ) and I like hanging with people who have that kind of attitude. Now, as a member of the USKMAF AND WHF I have two venues through which I can support the efforts of people who want to learn hapkido, or at least add some of its material to their curriculum. Again, where Wannabee and others seem to have missed the boat is that they have been trying to build the organization from the outside in. Apparently they seem to believe that if you build the shell of the building first, the inside takes care of itself. I think what they are finding is that when you build the shell first, your membership just sorta rattles around inside like BB-s in a barrel. What could they have done? Well, take a look at JR, Rudy, Dr. Kimm and quite a few others and you will see that they start off with reasonable group of dedicated and like-minded individuals, and demonstrate how the organization helps them get their needs met by co- ordinating the efforts of the group. As people get their needs met, other like minded people are attracted to the group to get their needs met but also to pitch-in. The organization grows, but it grows because the people are being serviced and want to pitch-in to help service others. Its not based on hype, marketing, profit or prestige and more than anything it must be associated with a quality effort or product. Furthermore it requires unrelenting dedication and patience which apparently are in short supply down in Florida. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Florida To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 06:35:48 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Yes, the Pres. of the Yudo Assn. was there, as was the Vice Pres of the > United States Ju Jitsu Federation, out of respect for Oh, Se Lim. If by the President of the Yudo association you refer to Joe Connelly, he is connected to the Judo and JJ groups so this was probably the connection to this event. FWIW, Mr. Connelly once told me, to my face, that he had spent close to $100,000.00 (Yes!!!) getting his one man Yudo group approved as an official Korean MA group. Sounds like if you have a bridge to sell you've found a buyer. I am not making up the 100,000 figure. I about dropped my teeth when he quoted that figure. Perhaps the sugar had gone to his head and he over stated the amount, but... supposed we assume he was off by a factor of 10. i.e. that is only cost him almost $10,000 to get his one man group approved... Where did that $$ go? To whom did it go? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "rich hodder" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:36:38 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Seabrook Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to thank all of those (some 50+) who came out to trian for the day with Master West and his fantastic crew of people. I know from all the feed back that I have gotten thus far that everyone had a wonderful and very educational experience. We had people there from all over Texas, some making a five hour drive one way just to train for half a day. I hope that everybody got home safely and I hope to see you again next year. Master West, thank you again. Hope you enjoy the cape and boots!!!! Rich Hodder _________________________________________________________________ Want to check if your PC is virus-infected? Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:46:54 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Naifanji Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> I had heard that NFC#1 was the single original form and that Itosu had added #2 and #3 as reinterpretations and/or extensions of the original. <> Same version I heard. <> BTW: When it comes to talking about what each form teaches I had always heard that NFC form teaches how to fight in a narrow, elongated space. However, I remember that when I practiced Shudokan years ago, we often spared out of a low straddle-stance which could be amazingly agile while presenting a very narrow profile to ones' partner. Before the modern fighting stance (IE Western Boxing stance) became popular, that straddle stance seemed to be the preferred method in sparring. I still use NFC for the benefit it seems to give to keeping an edge on my advancing and retreating push-steps. <> Yes fighting in an alley, benefits are good stability L/R and easy to push quickly L/R. very poor stability front to back, hard to sidestep. Sifu Lee found that he was able to "push" in all directions using his Small Phasic Bent Knee Posture/stance. Since he was comfortable traping and intercepting, and used a lot of lead leg and hand "stop hits", he wasn't concerned about putting the centerline facing front (trade-off in all things, yes). Our scientific TKD fighters have come up with a stance that is double centered (50/50 weight distribution) and allows for speedy front AND rear leg kicks, plu sminimizes the frontal target. Coach Han Lee desribes it well on his Sparring tapes. Because it allow you to sidestep (like with counter-punch), and still allows you to push as in Woo Jin and Jun Jin steps, I prefer it over the NFC stance. Just my $0.10 my $0.02 is free.... <> BTW#2: When I train in NFC I have performed them separately as well as joined together. I don't practice #3. FWIW. <> You are missing out on some real fun and some powerful techniques :-) Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:59:31 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Choosing a Dojang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My dear TKD friend, Go do a complimentary week at each school. Be sure you get to work out with the Chief Instructor that will be teaching 80% of the classes that meet your schedule. Once you finish a week with that person, you should know if there is a match there or not. That will be the most important issue if you are looking for a school you can train at for more than 3 years. A word of caution with the big schools. Often there is a person that is the "admissions director" who's job is to turn leads into enrollments and hand-hold those folks through the first 30-60 days of gup-hood. This is someone who's good with people and great at following up. This person generally won't be your instructor beyond gold belt level, and the largest school may have more than one class instructor teaching on different nights, so be sure you get to train with the person who will be most responsible for teaching you in the long range. Pros & Cons. The longstanding school of 200+ will be very systems oriented, everything will have structure and the school will run much like a huge machine. The small school of 50- will be VERY persona based. You will either love or hate the chief instructor, and he/she will do everything (often without a system). Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com <> I was wondering which would give the best instruction and guidance: a big school with 200 to 300 students or a smaller school with about 40-50 students. I visited a school with 200 students-they have a strict curriculum that they go by and a plan to help people get their black belt, and they have like a franchise-they have other schools across the nation and an intensive instructor's training program. It is an ITA school. I do WTF. I have visited another school that is small-has basic requirements for tests to the next belt level- but not coordinated like the bigger school. The school has 2 locations only. No curriculm for instructor's training program. Which is better? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:33:12 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TSD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Bruce and Danny, I agree with Danny's post and would add. KJN Hwang and the other founding kwans where members of the Korean Subakdo Association until the guberment decided to take control of Dan certification. End result half of the MDK and all but the CDK left. Put the puzzle together in my mind 1. GM Hwang was an inovator and ecclectic martial artist from day one 2. Had an opportunity through the railroad to train with Sifu Yang 3. At the end of the occupation he wanted to make his kwan Korean Nationalist thus the Hwa Soo Do (and later Hwa Sun Hyung). 4. His autobio says he learned the Karate Katas from a book which could at that time most likely be Funakoshi's Book. 5. I understand that the founders would sit on each others gradings, so yes I'd say they were contemporaries. 6. I'll take a SWAG that Hwang "learned" the Sho Rin Ryu Kata from Funakoshi's book and then had his friend/associate provide some qualified corrections from someone who trained with the author of the book. 7. As he evolved from HSD to TSD, he also modified the TSD forms to suit the needs of his "instructor preference" and the needs of his client base. 8. Much like a "cover band" once he made his version of TSD an international success, he had a desire to return to what he felt was a Korean base shown in the MYDTJ and blend his past with his first formal Sifu. Enter the Chil Sung & Yuk Rho sets, and from what I understand, exit some of the Pyung Ahns. Second Issue, KJN Shin's books are well written and organized. You will need close to $200 if you are a non WTSDA member to get a complete picture as the Kibon and Gup level Kata are in one book, and the two man forms and self defense in another book and the fourth book which I haven't seen yet has the yudanja hyung, but not the kodanja hyung. I believe only up to 4th Dan Kong Sang Koon is included. So for those that don't practice TSD, or are from another splinter other than Shin's the $20 paperpack from Amazon provides more value. If you are in the Shin, Jae Chul system, or one of the splinters from WTSDA then you should have all four books by Shin, JC. Anybody have Shin's 4 books C.S. Kim's book(s) Ho Sik Pak's tapes Kang Uk Lee's book and Hwang, Kee's book(s) care to do a compare and contrast book report? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:06:50 -0800 (PST) From: Lawren Hasten To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to thank Master West and his cohorts for coming down to Seabrook, Texas and giving us a fantastic seminar. It was really a great time. It's always nice to have so many folks from neighboring schools to work with as well. Thank you all. Lawren Hasten --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:19:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Gm Hwang Kee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FWIW, I have a fairly direct lineage to Gm Hwang Kee and his MKD, my first Korean instructor studied at the MDK under Hwang Kee. I have also visited the new MDK and seen the door to Hwang Kee's office (he wasn't in the office that month). As frequently happens in Seoul, I was treated very well during my visit to the new MDK. But, there are claims that Hwang Kee actually studied under Gm Lee at the Chung Do Kwan, earning a green belt in Tang Soo Do. Clearly he ended up forming the largest and most influential kwan of the original kwans... but his early training is rather suspect. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:21:02 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Unified_Field_Theory_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: Well, its Monday night and the great Florida Meet is a matter of history. I'm still waiting for the grand announcements, pronouncements, and other remarks that were expected to be made. Seems Mr. Wannabee, he who aspired to unifying Hapkido here in the West (AKA: "The Man Who Would Be King") simply had no energy left to make good on his earlier comments, after a long day of sitting by the side of the mats and looking authoritative. Did anyone find out if he managed to get his face in any of the pics with prominent personalities? Maybe Bong Soo Han? How about He-Young Kimm? Maybe Han Jae Ji? Oh. I'm sorry. You mean none of these folks made it to the Seminar? Gee, the one chance they had to get their pics taken with Oh See Lim and they blew it! I have no doubt that will keep them on Lifetime Regret Street for the foreseeable future. Of course you know that we can still expect to hear about all the things that Oh See Lim said directly to Wannabee when noone else was around--- tight buds that they are. I am sure that Wannabee will want to tell us all about his exclusive 1:1 with Oh See Lim --- like maybe over lunch? Whatever else I may have been off-base on in my life I sure had this guy pegged for what he is. And however anyone else feels this was Wannabees' last hurrah for me. I won't need to wonder if he's telling the truth or not. I figure if I want to know if the bozo is lying I'll just check to see if his lips are moving. Time to get on with Life. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest