Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:46:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #473 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Monsters?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 2. OT: Art of the Saber movie download (jmchie@wideopenwest.com) 3. Palgwes and KHF Announcements (J.R. West) 4. jumping (Jodi E. MacLeod) 5. Breaking (Bernard Maginnity) 6. Re: jumping (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 7. Palgwe meanings (and taeguek as well) (David Weller) 8. Re: worthless certs and the like (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 9. Re: TKDT & others (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 10. Discount Hapkido...Get it While it Lasts (Stovall, Craig) 11. Re: GM Hwang's training history (Debra Dunn) 12. Re: Broad Definition of Honor (Debra Dunn) 13. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Shuri-te,_Naha-te,_Tomari-te?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:04:32 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Monsters?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Storm: ".....What else can be done if the courts repeatedly give him a slap on the wrist or the students are afraid of standing up to him because of his efforts to have you black-balled out of the local, State and National Championships? We have him on video tape as he has openly sabotaged State Championship competitions and stopped a match to try to jump over a judges table and threatened to assault a parent and coach for reporting him to the State head referee, who happened to be his best friend and agreed he was "dirty" but was tolerated due to a shortage of referees....." I applaud your concerns but you are actually talking to the wrong people. The folks you need to speak with are the individuals in positions of authority who "tolerate" this man and his behavior. If experience is any indicator he probably brings in a lot of revenues for the events. I remember there was a competitor nicknamed "mouse" sometime back whose father made an ass of himself at competitions. These folks are going to keep it up until someone sets a limit for them. Even then, it may only mean that he will target another person or organization but at least your problem will be solved. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 2 From: jmchie@wideopenwest.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:47:49 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] OT: Art of the Saber movie download Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This may not be specifically KMA-related, but I think a number of people on the list who have high-speed connections might enjoy this movie download: http://www.theforce.net/theater/fxprojects/artofthesaber/ind ex.shtml I thought the 'swordwork' was interesting, given that what they were using before the special effects were added was three plastic lightsabers. Jim --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:25:11 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Palgwes and KHF Announcements Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am certainly no expert on either TKD or KMA history, but I was taught the Palgwe forms in the late 1960's, and was told at the time that each form represented and was choreographed by a different specific kwan, and the form was supposed to reflect something about the individuality of its' kwan. I can also remember that originally, today's Palgwe five was then Palgwe seven and vice versa, but were changed shortly after their introduction. I have never heard of any other meaning associated with that particular set of forms. As far as any earth shattering announcements coming out of this past weekend's seminar....I know that there are at least two VERY senior Korean HapKiDo masters that are in contact with GM Oh personally with regards to any positions or titles being handed out as part of the outcome of his visit to the USA..........J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Jodi E. MacLeod" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:35:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] jumping Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Any more ideas for training to jump? Mr. Stovall's advice has been helpful. My January brown belt TKD test includes a kata with a high, 180 degree jump/turn. Squats, plyometric drills are included in my training. Anyone ever have trouble getting the knees up while jumping? Can white women jump? I'll keep you posted. Jodi MacLeod Philadelphia School of Korean Karate --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:36:45 +1100 From: "Bernard Maginnity" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Black Belt testing is a few months away and for some reason I am having problems with my breaking technique, primarily hand techniques." Dear Black Belt candidate. Could you please give us some more information? It would help to know what type of breaks you are required/choose to do. Also, have you ever had trouble with a break or seen anyone else have difficulty with a break? Kind regards Bernard Maginnity NOTICE The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. Mission Australia has implemented anti-virus software, and whilst all care is taken, it is the recipient's responsibility to ensure that any attachments are scanned for viruses prior to use. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:40:23 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: jumping Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Second...do what is sometimes referred to as Frog Hopping...squat as low as you can...hands behind your back...keep your back straight...start out at short low leaps then increase the length and height eventually leaping as high and as far as you can..." this is killer on the knees! owwwwwch! take care, mel Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:48:16 -0600 From: David Weller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Palgwe meanings (and taeguek as well) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Wednesday, October 29, 2003, at 02:14 PM, Mr. Manuel Maldonado wrote: > From: "Manuel Maldonado" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:07:09 -0800 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Meaning of Palgwe > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Forgive my stupidity, I thought that Kon, Tae, Ri ect were the meanings > of the Tae Guk Poomse. So what you are saying is that the Palgwe and > Tae > Guk have the same meaning? Are they the same forms? I studied the Tae > Guks in Korea got my 2nd Dan Kukkiwon never did or seen the Palgwe. > Please enlighten me. Manuel Mr. Maldonado, I train in a school that teaches both the Taeguek and Palgwe forms. I was taught that the meanings for both sets were the same. Not that the forms were the same, they are quite different, but just the meanings. Master Terry's learned response was much better than mine as to those meanings, and I thank him for that. I also must admit I copied his information and will share it with others in my school. Very interesting. I'm guessing that when the taegueks were introduced the inventors kept the meanings of the older (palgwe) forms. There are also trigrams (the little three bar dealies that surround the um/yang on the S. Korean flag) associated with each form. 1. three solid bars. 2. Broken bar on top of two solid bars 3. Broken bar between 2 solid 4. 2 broken bars on top of 1 solid 5. 2 solid bars on top of one broken bar. 6 1 solid bar between 2 broken bars 7. 1 solid bar on top of 2 broken bars 8. 3 broken bars hope this helps, and is understandable. If not, I apologize. have a groovy day, dave weller --__--__-- Message: 8 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:45:13 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: worthless certs and the like Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Any suggestions for getting past this monster who enjoys being a fraudulent, cheating and child abusing monster ???????" sounds like reporting him to states attorney general would be good. also: local better business bureau. talk to the local occupational license folks. talk to the local prosecutor and let them know that youre truly concerned. write an editorial to the local newspapers. if you do this, you'd better be darned sure that what you say about this guy is all factual and not opinion...otherwise it'll all turn right back around on you. good luck. instructors like this make me sick. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 9 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:54:16 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: TKDT & others Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "What a nice thing to say! OK. Lets have some fun with this. What are the five subjects" lol...ok...um...here goes "KHF HKD" "TKD HX" "Korean Sword Forms" "Korean Sword History" "Where to Buy (or NOT Buy) Your Next Korean Sword" of course, there's... "Where to Buy Your Next Rank" and finally...yes, i went for seven subjects "Ongoing Critique of the Best Chinese or Korean Buffets in the United States" take care, melinda ;) Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:30:12 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Discount Hapkido...Get it While it Lasts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<< I'm curious... were people permitted to get their $$ refunded since the seminar portion was not as advertised?>>> That's what the heck I'm sitting here thinking! It would be different if this were the norm, but there are SOOOOO many people out there conducting quality seminars at a reasonable price. It's just a shame that this kind of thing goes on. In the end, it just kills people's willingness to travel and spend their money in fear of getting ripped off (which sounds like what happened in Florida). And that kills a lot of opportunities for the rest of us. Word gets around in the age of the internet, you know? I've never been to one of J.R.'s events (hope to someday), but I hear nothing but reports of learning (the on the mat flavor), and camaraderie coming from the people that have partaken in the past. Will definitely make that trip some day. Why waste time with egos when you've got that deal going? Personally, I've been to numerous Dan Inosanto seminars. Here's a living legend in the martial arts community, and I've paid anywhere from $100 to $150 for 12 - 16 hours of training in which the man literally force feeds you techniques, drills, and concepts. Answers any question you could possibly think of. You walk away with a tired mind and body, a notebook full of information, and enough material to keep you busy for the next year. All from a man who is both humble and approachable...despite the fact that he knows more and has done more than 95% of these 10th degree poobahs, and org presidents. Same thing goes for Chai Sirisute...have been to his seminars and absolutely love 'em. Nothing but good information and good people...and HARD WORK!!! You won't need to take out a second mortgage, either. What a novel concept! Have been to see both Renzo and Royce Gracie. A little pricier than your usual seminar...but hey, grappling is the hot thing right now. It's economics. But you know what...I still walked away with information and skills that I held to be more valuable than the money that I coughed up. Nice guys, too! They get on the mat, show you a technique, and then tap you with the same technique during the rolling session (and then go have a beer afterwards). How many of these 10th degree check cashers can claim that? Few!!! I've seen Paul de Thours on numerous occasions. I know he's not everybody's cup of tea, but I loved that man. Very sweet guy, and showed his great art to the best of his ability (not the world's greatest communicator, that one). Again, didn't have to cash advance the credit card, or buy the officially sanctioned silat underpants. Just had a great time with a sincere and humble human being, and walked away with techniques and concepts that I have been able to apply to every other art that I've been exposed to. What a bargain! And then there's Florida...come on down and get treated like a second class citizen!!! Hell, you should be honored just to be in these people's presence...I mean they're from KOREA!!! Well, folks...I'm from Arkansas, and I was born at night...but it wasn't last night. If they think I wouldn't have asked for a refund, then I guess they were in for uncomfortable moment #892. No sir, $350 buys a lot of diapers...although, maybe not enough diapers to hold what they were shoveling in Florida. I'm sorry, but it just makes me sick. There's just too many quality people out there to learn from to waste time with con artists and check cashers. And I'm not talking about Hackworth, people. I'm talking about the Korean contingent. If they really showed up and treated people like that...it's just sad. If they think they earned the price of admission just by showing up and giving a five minute lecture on BREATHING, and then presiding over a belt test (ooooooo, I'm impressed!!!!)...well, I've got news for them. Shows you how interested they are in the development and promulgation of Hapkido. Zero! They showed up for the money, and to facilitate some political matters. Training was the farthest thing from the agenda. "Everybody make sure you got your official KHF uniform...only $150 for the top and bottom at www.youareallsheep.com ". Tell me if I'm out of line (I'm not, but tell me anyway...he he). Oh well, enough of that rant. I'm going to go put on my official KHF uniform...but I won't work out in it because it might get dirty (and I'll wear my Aquaman underoos beneath it). Anybody see it different? Bruce? Ray? Rudy? Ken? Alain? Mr. Bigglesworth? Craig "Back with a vengeance" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Debra Dunn" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:53:21 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: GM Hwang's training history Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, No argument from me. But I am very interested as I have heard these claims before. Can you give me some sources, either on or offline. I would like to investigate more. Thanks, Danny Dunn > > FWIW, I have a fairly direct lineage to Gm Hwang Kee and his MKD, my first > Korean instructor studied at the MDK under Hwang Kee. I have also visited > the new MDK and seen the door to Hwang Kee's office (he wasn't in the > office that month). As frequently happens in Seoul, I was treated very > well during my visit to the new MDK. > > But, there are claims that Hwang Kee actually studied under Gm Lee at > the Chung Do Kwan, earning a green belt in Tang Soo Do. Clearly he > ended up forming the largest and most influential kwan of the original > kwans... but his early training is rather suspect. > > Ray Terry --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Debra Dunn" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:14:18 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Broad Definition of Honor Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Erik, A broad brushed approach is : honor is the result of parcticing intergrety, and integrety is alwaays doing the right thing. Danny Dunn > "..... If anyone would care to give me > their definition of honor, I would be greatly interested......" --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:41:21 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Shuri-te,_Naha-te,_Tomari-te?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear L.L.: "......I have been studying TKD for 3 years and made it to 1st degree black belt. I want to cross train with ju-jitsu or shuri-ryu karate. Does anyone know about shuri-ryu karate (okinawan karate)? When you do cross train how you keep up with one martial art as oppose to other? I don't want to lose the TKD skills......" People have been trying to divide Okinawa-te into parts ever since Itosu and his cronies wanted to sell Okinawa-te to the educational system in Okinawa as "physical education". There was recently a great article on this in CLASSIC FIGHTING ARTS along with some great write ups on Bassai and how it got the interpretation of "storming the fortress". Remember how folks used to make such a big thing about "internal" and "external" styles of Chinese boxing along with "northern" and "southern" styles. It all breaks down to what one teacher thought was important over what another teacher thought was important. But you don't have to believe me. Get ahold of some of Stanley Hennings writing and make up your own mind. As far as cross-training in ju-jutsu or karate if you have to worry about losing one art through training in another art that should be your first clue. It seems to me that to cross-train in arts which are not harmonics of each other is to invite exactly the result you mention. What else did you expect? The truth is that unless there is some basic level of harmony between the two arts you are asking your neuro-muscular system to learn in two different directions. Wanna mix ju-jutsu and wrestling fine. How about Savate and TKD? How about TKD and HKD? Or, you could admit that the novelty of TKD has worn off now that you have made cho-dan---- supposedly the time when your training actually begins---- or that you have tied into a teacher who is only capable of challenging students up to cho-dan and then what he has to offers peters out. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest