Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:24:01 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 10 #475 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Palgwe forms (Wicker, H. Keith) 2. Re: Does anyone know?? (Ken Nessworthy) 3. about Grandmaster Choi,Suk Hwan (gaby noufaily) 4. REPLY TO BERNARD Breaking (Divetony@aol.com) 5. Palgwe Definitions (Farral, Kim) 6. Re: Bruce (Dr. Daryl Covington) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_One_More_Time_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. TKD and kicking (Bill Tucker) 9. Re: Palgwe Definitions (Ray Terry) 10. Gari Keith Ledyard, lecture (Ray Terry) 11. learning expansion (Ray Terry) 12. Re: REPLY TO BERNARD Breaking (Jye nigma) 13. Stretching (Ray Terry) 14. Re: Re: GM Hwang's training history (Ray Terry) 15. Re: Florida seminar (ABurrese@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:22:47 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Palgwe forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone know what Korean Master(s) or Kwan(s) were involved in the creation of the Palgwe forms? Is there any documentation or knowledge base on how and why certain movements were chosen? Having studied both MDK TSD and TKD, I can see many similar movements between the Pyung-Ahn and Palgwe form sets, therefore I assume most of the movements in the Palgwe were "pieced together" from the "classical" hyung. I think that the Palgwe form set is a much "richer" form set than the Tae Guek set. Also, my understanding is that the Tae Guek form set was created because the Palgwe were too "Japanese". Comments? Thanks, Keith --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Ken Nessworthy" To: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:22:13 -0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Does anyone know?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All, I posted a message a few days ago (message 465) asking the group: Quote: "I have being doing a little research in to the origins of TSD and what GM Hwang Kee studied while in China but I have hit a bit of a wall. We all know that Tang Soo Do is made up of 60% Soo Bahk Do, 30% Northern Chinese (Shaolin Long Fist, Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan and Tan Tui) and 10% Southern Chinese. My question is - what style in Southern Chinese did Grandmaster Hwang Kee study??." There is a lot of knowledge out there and someone must know what the missing 10% is?? Pil Sung Ken --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "gaby noufaily" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:27:01 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] about Grandmaster Choi,Suk Hwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I saw in the pictures in BudoSeek that Grandmaster Choi Suk Hwan was the main korean instructor who spent all his time teaching in the florida seminar, I would like to ask the persons who were there in Florida , how did they found Grandmaster Choi techniques, is he good ,moderate or a bad instructor, how is his english, does he know what he is teaching or what? I am asking these questions because they gave me grandmaster Choi address and Email to contact him to study with him in Korea, we talked by mail and he seems a good person, but I need to know his skills in hapkido, and do you advise me to study with him.If anyone knows a very skillful instructor in Korea who teach hapkido and of course who speaks english woudl you please recommended for me. thanks in advance  gaby  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Divetony@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:10:04 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] REPLY TO BERNARD Breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I had trouble breaking on my last test. I was required to hold the board in one hand and break it with a punch with the other, after several failed attempts I only dented the board. I then tried breaking it with a hammer strike again holding it in my other hand, to my surprise I had difficulty with that too. I thought I had a pretty good hammer strike up until that point. We have not been told yet what kind of break we will be doing, the test is in December. I've had no problems with kicks. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:18:03 -0500 From: "Farral, Kim" To: "Dojang" Subject: [The_Dojang] Palgwe Definitions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Pil Seung... The Definitions for each individual Palgwe are quite interesting...does anyone have a reference from when they war developed or from where they may have initiated?... I have always been taught that there is no direct English translation for the term Palgwe and that it is a relative term referring to balance and harmony...i.e.: Day/Night...Man/Woman...Good/Evil...etc... I am very interested in more information about these definitions if anyone could provide it... On another note... I have been told that the Palgwes were suppose to be "Adult" forms developed for the WTF to replace the "Choi Hyungs" of the ITF...and the Tae Gueks were developed later as "Children's" Forms utilizing the short walking stances to better accommodate children... Anyone else ever heard of these explanations? Always a student... Pil Seung The One and Only "TINK" ************************************ This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ************************************ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 05:36:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Bruce Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:07:33 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_One_More_Time_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Craig: "...... I'm talking about the Korean contingent. If they really showed up and treated people like that...it's just sad. If they think they earned the price of admission just by showing up and giving a five minute lecture on BREATHING, and then presiding over a belt test (ooooooo, I'm impressed!!!!)...well, I've got news for them. Shows you how interested they are in the development and promulgation of Hapkido. Zero! They showed up for the money, and to facilitate some political matters. Training was the farthest thing from the agenda......" I think you post is hitting right on target, but I am going to put a slightly different spin on this. We could continue to hit on those people from down in Florida until the cows come home. After this last weekend it is almost too easy. But please forgive me if I sound like a broken record here, but where are the OTHER KHF people? Indeed, where are the OTHER KMA people? I'm not questioning the individuals you selected in your post. I am sure that if you have been to their seminars you know of which you speak. However, what I am talking about are the people who can provide quality KMA instruction at quality seminars. We have seen quite a few months of what NOT to do. Now, I would like to see some folks step up to the plate and let the KMA community know that there are alternatives to the circus we have witnessed. Right now, the only up-coming events I am aware of are the seminars by JR West (Ft Wayne, Ind.--- Nov 8th Weekend) and the one by Dr Kimm (I think its the same weekend). This would be a great time for folks to step in and make an effort to provide alternate venues to the fiascos like the one we have just witnessed. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Bill Tucker" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:41:53 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD and kicking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ...."I notice it most while trying to do the TKD style round house kick .... It seems I lack the medial rotation skill and flexability necessary to do the kick correctly without having to come home and take a handful of motrin after class".... I am a 47-year-old male and have been involved in TKD for more than a year.  The main obstacle before me has been TKD's love of high kicks.  I can kick with great power up to chest-level and have a lot of strength and speed for hand techniques.  But in spite of my positive attributes and skills there is still this nonsensical love in TKD for high kicks (even though we've been told numerous times "In a real fight you do NOT want to kick high"). I love martial arts and the hard workout, but I have almost abandoned TKD because of the demand for "high kicks". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Surf and talk on the phone at the same time with broadband Internet access. Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month.* *Depending on the local service providers in your area. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Palgwe Definitions To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:53:44 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > On another note... I have been told that the Palgwes were suppose to be > "Adult" forms developed for the WTF to replace the "Choi Hyungs" of the > ITF...and the Tae Gueks were developed later as "Children's" Forms > utilizing the short walking stances to better accommodate children... > > Anyone else ever heard of these explanations? I must say that I've never heard that one. As I understand it the walking front stance was added since it is far more of a fighting stance than is the traditional front stance. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:57:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Gari Keith Ledyard, lecture Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net DISTINGUISHED LECTURE CO-SPONSORED BY SIGUR CENTER FOR ASIAN STUDIES AT THE ELLIOTT SCHOOL FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND THE DEPARTMENT OF EAST ASIAN LANGUAGES & LITERATURES "Women in Korean History and the Question of Modernity: the Case of Kang Wansuk (1761-1801), Religious Activist and Martyr." Dr. Gari Keith Ledyard King Sejong Professor of Korean Studies Emeritus Columbia University in the City of New York One of the most distinguished scholars of Korean history, Professor Ledyard this year marks his 50th anniversary in Korean Studies. He joined Columbia University's faculty in 1964, on several occasions served as Chair of the Department of East Asian Languages and Cultures, and was the founding Director of the East Asian Institute’s Center for Korean Research. He has taught and written widely on Korea's modern history, culture, and current affairs as well as on his specialty of Korea's pre-modern periods. He is the author of The Korean Language Reform of 1146, The Dutch Come to Korea, the book-length monograph "Cartography in Korea," and numerous journal articles and chapters in conference volumes. He has also published work in the fields of Chinese, Japanese, and Mongolian history. Professor Ledyard received his B.A. (1958), M.A. (1963) and Ph.D. (1966) from the University of California at Berkeley. He retired from Columbia University in 2000, but remains active in research and writing on Korea and East Asian generally. Wednesday, November 5, 2003 5:30 pm - 7:00 pm 1957 E St. NW, Room 213 The George Washington University Elliott School for International Affairs Washington, DC 20052 Please RSVP to 202-994-5886 or to shimakag@gwu.edu by November 4, 2003 --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:02:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] learning expansion Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > As far as cross-training in ju-jutsu or karate if you have to worry about > losing one art through training in another art that should be your first > clue. It seems to me that to cross-train in arts which are not harmonics > of each other is to invite exactly the result you mention. What else did > you expect? Umm, to teach your body (and mind) new ways to move and respond.?.?. This is the best harmony one can ever hope for, imho. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:04:36 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] REPLY TO BERNARD Breaking To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'd treat that type of break as a speed break. don't use pure power to break the board, use speed which brings power. We practiced speed breaks holding them with only the fingertips....so a hard forceful punch only moved the board, but in using speed, you'd hear a crack, and seconds later the bottom of the board would fall off. The dispersal of energy in a speed strike resembles a stream of water crashing against a wall, like when a water hose shoots water at a wall. The energy hits the board and goes all over the board. When doing a speed break I picture the break in my minds eye doing it extremely fast, and when I feel I can do it, I attempt to do it even faster, quickly striking the board and guiding my energy just to the point of contact, not passed the board. There are variations of this but I typically used an open completely relaxed hand and shot it towards the board, only clenching the fist at the point of impact....with a whipping action much like snapping a wet towel. Jye --- Divetony@aol.com wrote: > I had trouble breaking on my last test. I was > required to hold the board in > one hand and break it with a punch with the other, > after several failed > attempts I only dented the board. I then tried > breaking it with a hammer strike again > holding it in my other hand, to my surprise I had > difficulty with that too. I > thought I had a pretty good hammer strike up until > that point. We have not > been told yet what kind of break we will be doing, > the test is in December. > I've had no problems with kicks. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:21:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Stretching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have been trying a couple of different stretches that don't seem to be > helping much and I don't have the language skills i need to ask my > instructor. Any ideas??? One thing that I did years ago that helped, at least some, was to put my foot up on something (ballet bar or handrail or ??) and assume a front kick position. Stretch forward grabbing your toes, ssttrreettcchh..... Then without removing your foot rotate into a roundhouse kick position, a side kick position and around to a back kick position. Then rotate your hips around back to the front kick position. Repeat as needed. When that gets easy, raise your foot higher and start all over again. After several weeks/months of doing this your hip flexibility will improve. Perhaps not to where some people are naturally, but it should help you... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: GM Hwang's training history To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:22:11 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It has all been verbal sources. It may not be true. Ray > No argument from me. But I am very interested as I have heard these claims > before. Can you give me some sources, either on or offline. I would like > to investigate more. > > Thanks, > > Danny Dunn > > > > > FWIW, I have a fairly direct lineage to Gm Hwang Kee and his MKD, my first > > Korean instructor studied at the MDK under Hwang Kee. I have also visited > > the new MDK and seen the door to Hwang Kee's office (he wasn't in the > > office that month). As frequently happens in Seoul, I was treated very > > well during my visit to the new MDK. > > > > But, there are claims that Hwang Kee actually studied under Gm Lee at > > the Chung Do Kwan, earning a green belt in Tang Soo Do. Clearly he > > ended up forming the largest and most influential kwan of the original > > kwans... but his early training is rather suspect. > > > > Ray Terry --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:48:57 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Florida seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was staying out of this, but do have some comments on HKD in general that may shed some light on thing. Those will come shortly. However, since Richard decided to take a pot shot at me on Budo Seek, I will state that yes Richard asked me to go to the event in Florida. I told him I would not attend anything he put on because I did not like or respect him. (this is based on the direct insults and lies he said about me and to me, as well as calling me names and insinuating threats to me) He then asked me to attend to support the KHF, not him. I told him I spent my time and money to go to Korea to train with people I have relationships with, and to events in the states with people I have relationships with. Relationships with people are more important than certificates or organizations. Now, because Richard cannot call me a KHF fraud, because my rank from KHF is legit, he has to try and slam my speaking business and call me a fraud there. I'm still a bit confused how not attending his event makes me a fraud as a speaker???? I wonder how many speakers were at the event in Florida - are all those speakers who were not there frauds? It is beyond me why he wants to attack me. Anyway, because some people may have seen his pot shot at me, I did post a longer reply on Budo Seek. And I'm letting people here know. I also wanted to say in public that I respect Mr. Carver and Mr. Clay at Budoseek, and appreciate Mr. Carver's response to my post regarding Richard. I have nothing against them or the forum. They have been respectful to me, and I will continue to treat them with respect, and maybe we will have the opportunity to meet some day for worthy conversation and sharing of MA knowledge. I wish them and everyone else in martial arts success, and now I will get back to working on positive things to help others stay safe and improve themselves. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest